Fuming, Angry, seething, seeing RED!!!!!!!!!!

No part of your life is left untouched (no pun intended) by the borg.  Bad is as bad does!

back up and understand what is going on.  The Bible does teach that beating a child or slave is appropriate.  It also teaches that children are tainted sinners from conception.  These are the ingredients for child abuse.  In fact the idea that children are enemies of God is necessarily corollary to the doctrine of inherited sin.

  I think back at a couple families who made the lives of their children unbearable.  Beatings at the KH beatings at home, saying things like "I was aiming for you butt it's your fault if you moved or put your hands in the way!" to justify dislocated fingers and bruises.  While we all sat and listened and did nothing to stop it.  Fortunately few took the Bible advice that literally with their own kids, but all felt unable to intervene in the abuse of other kids, for fear of appearing to disagree with it.

This subject makes me so sad and angry.

The very last meeting i attended, my son who was 1 years old at the time, was

getting very restless and began to cry. My mother told me to take him to the

ladies room and spank him really good so that he would sit down and pay

attention. We are talking a 1 year old, ok!   I told her i didnt think it was

necessary, and she gave me the look of death. So sadly, i took him to the

ladies room and spanked him. I still hate myself for that, allowing myself to be

bullied into spanking my baby.  I cried and cried right after, and i hugged my son

and promised i would never do that again.  I left the meeting, went home and told

my husband what happend, he didnt blame me, he know's how my parents are. I

use to get the wooden spoon for as far back as i could remember.  This began

my exit out of the borg. I dont understand how some parents do this and can

go back and sit down as if nothing happend.

One time, a long time ago, i remember this one woman who took her little boy

into the ladies room and we could hear the spanking in the main hall, it was so

loud, we heard like 5 good hard whacks. Everyone in the hall just looked around

at eachother, some shocked, some were not, some even had a proud look on

their faces, its still very vivid to me.



Without a doubt, an orginisation that has built a solid foundation around abuse. SICKENING!!!

MonkeyPrincess

Peacefulpete - I think you make a really important point there, that the Organization is treating children as sinners that need the sin knocking out of them.  This makes abusers out of people who would normally if they had never been in the cult, into abusers.  They actually believe that they are doing the right thing and are 'saving' and 'training' their children.  As in the case of MonkeyPrincess who is still upset about being forced into spanking her one year old.  Because of the the teachings of Armageddon coming and children needing to sit and be trained there adds desperation to a parents frustration with their little tiny uncooperative child.  How can this child not understand that they have to 'take in knowledge of the only true God' right from an early age in order to survive. The taking in of knowlege, or in my opinion, crap from the FDS is essential to survive.  Afterall, Armageddon is coming anyday!

Then there's those who would probably be abusers to some extent any way.  WTBTS views on child discipline gives them the licence they want and need to act like the beasts that they really are.  And the view of men being the head, goes to the heads of those people and anything... literally anything can happen to the rest of their family and whatever they do to their wives, or children, they actually believe that they have God's blessing!  After all, God put them in charge, didn't he?!

Ok, while the bible does teach that we are born with sin on the other hand?.

A baby crying to be held, a baby crying to be fed or changed or a baby crying out of fear?.That is not selfish. That is a baby with needs that have to be met. By saying that these things are selfish, imo the speaker is blasphemous. In the sense that when God created man and pronounced it good, he being the Almighty had to have created man with the outlook that regardless of whether or not he were to sin, the children he were to bring forth, as babies would need someway of getting their parents attention to have their needs met. Unless God?s unknown plan was for Eve to bear fully grown adults. Selfishness is a sin. If a baby crying to be held by his mother is selfish, then I wonder what the Society has to say about what perfect babies would do. Stand up at a month old and say ?Hey feed me I?m hungry?? Or better yet, pick up a stick of wood sharpen it for hunting, get his own wild turkey and cook and eat it?

What that speaker said is not only cold, it makes little sense in a very practical way. Babies cry to get their needs met. If a 10 year old is screaming and crying and carrying on, and there are no special circumstances, then chances are the kid is spoiled. But a baby cries for a reason. That is their communication.

Wow... A lot of painful stories here.

I feel the root of the problem is the ethnic group of origin for the WTS. Evil Anglo-Saxons (Yes, I know recent scholarship is reviewing this label). The dominant social group in America, we have a tremendous reliance on violence to solve any problem (it worked pretty well for centuries), propelling Western Europe above more "advanced" eastern societies.

That "heritage" pervades the mind-set of the leadership still. Got a problem, use force. Couple that with unreasonable behaviour expectations for children (Nazareen lifestyle, physical self-control, etc...) I still think every kid should be a little afraid of their "old man" - weird huh?

That said, It was the intial and main method my paerents used in trying to "mold" my second brother who had ADD and was often mischief bent (but never mean). I used to feel bad for him. That said, he doesn't resent it because they changed their tactics when they saw that it wasn't "working". If I had kids, I would still want the corporal option even if I didn't need to use it.

An unrealistic behaviour standard requires brutal or extreme enforcement by an org. (Soviet Army circa WW2 for example) for individual motivation.

W.

 

I too am so sad to read what some of you experienced. THANK GOD I never did any of this to my kids. They were so good, sat & listened to all we were being fed - even repeated it at school -making other kids JWS... One of my girls-is still a JW has two kids , one is manic! the other a pioneer,I guess it is still torture in a way to make them JW's

I regret it every day... But the world doesnt seem interested in learning about the mistreatment of the kids.... Yes When I speak in churches ,schools, etc a lot of the teachers say the JW kids are so well behaved... Of course they are A Vengful Jehovah is using this Organization to watch their every move- & if a 'brother" or a "sister" catches you not toeing the line they teach them to report it >>>>>>Well its because of the LOVE aspect. NOT!   it is teaching little kids to become rats... They do a good job also

 

 

Perhaps the need for CONTROL, both thought and physical, is the real reason for all the extreme behaviour everywhere, be it in a country such as Iraq, under Sadams regime, and now with foreign armies trying to control the population, we are seeing extreme mistreatment.  Then you get religions, both Christian, like the JWs and even Islam, where fear is the driving force for extreme and irrational behaviour amongst anyone with any power, including parents.  Fear of a vengeful God, in the case of religion, can drive anyone slightly prone to irrational behaviour, into that very behaviour easily, and anyone that you might have considered very balanced can also behave irrationally.

The earlier example of one of the children I saw rigid in terror at the repeated slappings, and I mean really hard slappings she was receiving from her mother is an example.  The child was 13 months old and very delicately built.  The mother, in normal circumstances was a very intelligent, lovely woman but she HAD BEEN TAUGHT BY THE WTBTS that is was UNACCEPTABLE for her child not to sit and listen, or to cause any disturbance distracting from the food provided by the FDS; why the child's very life depended on her taking in this VITAL knowlege.  That child was slapped and slapped and slapped.....hence the searing of her tiny face in my memory.

Maybe we need to really consider how much control anyone should have over anyone else!

{{{Gill}}}



Speechless!

Hi everyone, I am new to this board.

I am reading some of your posts and I am in awe of how angry they are. Dont get me wrong. I was a JW for 13 years, I raised my children in that organization.I know well all of the scenarios you are all talking about. I have had no contact with either  witnesses or exwitnesses in all these years, so I guess I just healed myself over the years. I have apologized to my children, they are now adults and are also no longer witnesses. I have sent them to therapy when they were teenagers and I have asked them move forward with me.

You have a right to be angry...But for your own sanity...you also need to work on getting  past the anger. If you relate to the child abuse stories, and yes they are horribe, then you need to work on healing YOUR inner child. dont let the anger  consume you. I am sure other people in your lives are affected by this demon that haunts you. Dont feed him and let him grow to consume you. It will be no better for you.

Living well and being well is the best revenge you can have.

 

 

Hi Glenwoodswoman!  Welcome to the forum!

Glad to hear of your escape from the big bad world of JWism.

You're absolutely right about living well, and being well.  That's something that I have finally achieved myself and am proud to say that after a few very bad years look and feel great!

However, it's impossible to forget, children left behind in the cult.  Hence the WTBTS has got to change it's attitude to children and to it's members.  I don't believe they will be able to completely control their members abusing their children in one way or another but they should certainly not be recommending discipling children for their behaviour, or lack of it at meetings, for a start!

Gill,

I absolutely agree and I do  not have an answer. I well remember trying to keep my children quite through endless meetings and long assembly days. I honestly do not remember how I did it. God, I have not even thought of it in years.  It remonds me of something I read about children adapting to situations. The author said:"children do not adapt. They mutate." 

Thanks for the warm welcome and acceptance, and also the food for thought.

 

Welcome Glenwoodswoman, I do see your point and understand where you are coming from however this board for a number of people is their own source of healing, some of us are angry, some are less angry and some are not angry at all, its a question of moving forward in stages and different people are at different stages.

Your concern I am sure is appreciated by all, again welcome and hope to see you round

I feel it is only normal to be fuming, angry, seething, and seeing red when you see a child being severely beaten or have been that child yourself.

For people that have never experienced abuse or think that we are talking about spanking a child, you cannot possibly understand what we are saying. Let me give you an example of real abuse-

I was locked in a closet in the heat of the summer for a half a day. I had to go to the bathroom and asked to come out. My mom opened the door and began to hit me with my dad's belt. After 20 times I stopped counting. She shut the door and I crapped my pants and stayed in the closet for hours more. I was 5 years old at the time and I knew how to tell time and count, that is how I remember. I was yelled at for going to the bathroom and made to clean it up myself. All of this was over not picking up my toys immedietely when told.

During my entire childhood, not a week went by that I wasn't beaten ( not spanked ). I remember coming in the house excited about something and I forgot to hang up my wind jacket. My dad was standing there with a board with holes in it and told me to pick it up. I said I would but please don't hit me when I bend over. He promised he wouldn't. I bent over to pick up my coat and I was shocked when he hit me. It caught me off guard and I flew about 5 ft into the wall that was near my coat and hit my head. I didn't even have time to stand up because he grabbed my arm and flung me in the air to the next wall. Then he began to spank me left and right until I was screaming and walking in a circle. He eventually stopped because the 1/2 inch thick paddle finally broke. He dropped my arm and I fell limp to the floor. After that, I could barely move my arm and it started to turn black it was so bruised. For the longest time I had to cover my arm and if anyone saw it I lied and said I fell off of the curly slide.

Children Services did occasionally come to visit my home. The woman would take us in our bedroom to talk to us but me and my sister didn't dare to say a word. My parents bedroom was right next to ours and I could hear them listening through the heat register. Before she came, we were told that if we said anything that dad would go to jail and that it would be all of our faults and that Jehovah would punish us for being disobedient children. After the "bad" beatings, my mom would talk to us in our room and say that it is Jehovah testing us to see how much we could bare and that Jehovah would not give us more than we could handle.

I have found that anger to me comes and goes like a wave and that it is an important part of healing. I am at a time in my life that I can say the anger is a size of a pea, but it used to consume me. I am trying to enjoy everyday that I am alive and I feel that if the begining part of my life has been this bad than I must be long overdue for some good times ahead.

I hope in some small way that this explains what abuse really is. I know that alot of people on this site have their own story of abuse, hence the anger.

I read a really good quote the other day that I would like to share with you- Forgiving doesn't mean forgetting. It means understanding.

I had to really think about that for awhile and let it stew. I think when you understand someone and what motivates them to do the things they do, than the anger stops and real joy can begin. At least you and I are out!!!!!!  

 

 

((((((love11))))))) - That is a really horrific story of true and vicious abuse.  It seems to me it was made much worse by the "Jehovah is testing you" method that your mother used to control you so that you could not ask for help.

You are bang on track with finding that you need to understand what happened to you and why your parents treated you so wickedly.  That's the only way to get over this terrible start you had in your life. 

Now, the time has come to enjoy life and to start living.  Thank goodness you survived to tell your tale,  and I'm so glad you're out and free. 

Forgive, but don't forget and make sure that YOU are the one who is always in control from now on. 

Children who are JWs, who are abused, in any way are doubly trapped because they actually believe that the very people who might be able to help them are their enemies because of JW teachings.  That's why they must not be forgotten.  That's where the Silent Lamb Organization comes in and everyone else should not be afraid to speak up for these children.

If those people that are still in the organization only realized how much we care about them too.....

 

GUILTY!

(((love11) - I'm afraid they're too scared to look up and see. 

Dansk - now you have to move forward.  Show them your love every day and if one of them won't listen, keep telling them any way.  There is nothing to fear in speaking the truth about how you feel.

Oh, I moved on a long time ago. As for telling my daughters, they don't want anything to do with the rest of the family so I can't tell them anything. It''s their loss and I'm well and truly over it. Now that I have true insight, my girls are just people who came through the vehicles of my wife and I. They are bound by their own conditioned nature.

One day they might see the reality of it all. Whatever, my wife, two sons and I have our own lives to lead. We broke the bonds of emotional blackmail the very night we exited. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/86687/1436597/post.ashx#1436597

Love,

Ian

Love11,

My heart aches for you, when I read stories like yours, I am truly at a loss for words.I like your quote about forgiveness being understanding...Do you understand why he did that?(father) Surely that is beyond the "spare the rod, spoil the child" philosophy. I am truly sorry and i hope that you are well or getting well on every level of your being.

Irene