Get aload of this..

 

This is crazy.. just go under each topic on this sight and read. It speaks on each topic we have touched on in this forum and bascially gives thier "answer" and thoughts as silly as some are.

 

Xandria

Also found this..

TODAY, Satan's world has come to be "past all moral sense." (Ephesians 4:19; 1 John 5:19) Adultery and fornication are pandemic. In many lands 50 percent or more of marriages end in divorce. Homosexuality is widely accepted. Sexual violencerapeis often in the news. Pornography is a billion-dollar industry.Romans 1:26, 27.

Among the vilest perversions is the sexual abuse of innocent children. Like the wisdom of Satan's world, child sexual abuse is "animal, demonic." (James 3:15) In the United States alone, Time magazine says, "more than 400,000 reports of verifiable sexual assaults are filed with authorities each year by teachers and doctors." When victims of this abuse become adults, many still carry painful wounds, and those wounds are real! The Bible says: "The spirit [mental inclination, inner feelings and thoughts] of a man can put up with his malady; but as for a stricken [wounded, afflicted] spirit, who can bear it?"Proverbs 18:14.

The good news of God's Kingdom appeals to people of all kinds, including "the brokenhearted" and those with a "downhearted spirit." (Isaiah 61:1-4) Not surprisingly, many who are in emotional pain respond to the invitation: "Let anyone thirsting come; let anyone that wishes take life's water free." (Revelation 22:17) The Christian congregation can be a place of comfort for these. They rejoice to learn that suffering will soon be a thing of the past. (Isaiah 65:17) Until that time, though, they may need to be 'comforted' and have their wounds 'bound up.' Well did Paul counsel Christians: "Speak consolingly to the depressed souls, support the weak, be long-suffering toward all."1 Thessalonians 5:14.

"Repressed Memories"

In recent years some have been "brokenhearted" for reasons that others find difficult to understand. They are adults who, on the basis of what have been described as "repressed memories," say that they were sexually abused when they were children.* Some have no thought of having been molested until, unexpectedly, they experience flashbacks and "memories" of an adult (or adults) abusing them when they were young. Do any in the Christian congregation have such disturbing thoughts? In a few lands, yes, and these dedicated ones may experience deep distress, anger, guilt, shame, or loneliness. Like David they may feel isolated from God and cry out: "Why, O Jehovah, do you keep standing afar off? Why do you keep yourself hid in times of distress?"Psalm 10:1.

Many aspects of these "memories" are not well understood by mental-health professionals. Still, such "memories" can affect the spirituality of dedicated Christians. So we look with confidence to God's Word for guidance in handling them. The Bible provides "discernment in all things." (2 Timothy 2:7; 3:16) It also helps all concerned to put faith in Jehovah, "the Father of tender mercies and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our tribulation."2 Corinthians 1:3, 4.

Did It Really Happen?

In the world, there is much controversy as to what these "memories" are and to what extent they represent things that actually happened. Jehovah's Witnesses are "no part of the world" and take no part in this controversy. (John 17:16) According to published reports, "memories" have sometimes proved to be accurate. For example, after insurance adjuster Frank Fitzpatrick "remembered" being molested by a certain priest, almost one hundred others came forward to claim that they too had been abused by the same priest. The priest reportedly admitted to the abuse.

It is noteworthy, however, that a number of individuals have been unable to corroborate their "memories." Some afflicted in this way have had vivid recollections of a certain individual committing abuse or of the abuse being committed in a specific place. Later, though, legitimate evidence to the contrary made it clear that these "remembered" details could not be true.

Providing a Refuge

Nevertheless, how can comfort be given to those who experience a "stricken spirit" because of such "memories"? Remember Jesus' parable of the neighborly Samaritan. A man was set upon by robbers, beaten, and stripped of his possessions. When the Samaritan came along, his heart went out to the wounded man. What did he do? Did he insist on hearing every last detail about the beating? Or did the Samaritan get a description of the robbers and immediately chase after them? No. The man was hurt! So the Samaritan gently dressed his wounds and lovingly carried him to the safety of a nearby inn where he could recover.Luke 10:30-37.

True, there is a difference between physical wounds and a "stricken spirit" caused by actual childhood sexual abuse. But both cause great suffering. Hence, what the Samaritan did for the wounded Jew shows what can be done to help an afflicted fellow Christian. The first priority is to give loving comfort and to help him recover.

The Devil afflicted faithful Job, apparently confident that either emotional or physical pain would break his integrity. (Job 1:11; 2:5) Since then, Satan has often tried to use sufferingwhether he directly causes it or notto weaken the faith of God's servants. (Compare 2 Corinthians 12:7-9.) Can we doubt that the Devil now plays upon child abuse and the "downhearted spirit" of many adults who suffered this (or are troubled by "memories" of having suffered it) to try to weaken the faith of Christians? Like Jesus when under attack by Satan, a Christian who suffers pain but who stalwartly refuses to abandon his integrity is saying: "Go away, Satan!"Matthew 4:10.

Stay Spiritually Strong

"The faithful and discreet slave" has published information to help handle the spiritual and emotional hurt caused by child abuse. (Matthew 24:45-47) Experience shows that the sufferer is helped if he can rely on the 'power of the Lord and the mightiness of his strength,' putting on "the complete suit of armor from God." (Ephesians 6:10-17) This armor includes Bible "truth," which exposes Satan as the ultimate enemy and dissipates the darkness in which he and his henchmen work. (John 3:19) Then, there is "the breastplate of righteousness." The afflicted one should strive to hold to righteous standards. For example, some have strong impulses to harm themselves or to commit immorality. Every time they resist these impulses, they win a victory!

Spiritual armor also includes "the good news of peace." Talking to others about Jehovah's purposes strengthens the one talking as well as anyone who listens. (1 Timothy 4:16) If you should be one with a "stricken spirit," making it difficult for you to talk about the good news, try to accompany another Christian as he or she does this vital work. And do not forget "the large shield of faith." Have faith that Jehovah loves you and that he will restore all that you have lost. Believe without reservation that Jesus also loves you, and he proved this by dying for you. (John 3:16) Satan has always falsely claimed that Jehovah does not care for his servants. That is just another of his gross, vicious lies.John 8:44; compare Job 4:1, 15-18; 42:10-15.

If pain of heart makes it difficult to believe that Jehovah is concerned about you, it will help to associate with others who firmly believe that he does have concern. (Psalm 119:107, 111; Proverbs 18:1; Hebrews 10:23-25) Refuse to allow Satan to rob you of the prize of life. Remember, "the helmet of salvation" is part of the armor; so is "the sword of the spirit." The Bible is inspired by holy spirit, which Satan cannot defeat. (2 Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 4:12) Its healing words can soothe emotional pain.Compare Psalm 107:20; 2 Corinthians 10:4, 5.

Finally, pray constantly for the strength to endure. (Romans 12:12; Ephesians 6:18) Heartfelt prayer sustained Jesus through intense emotional agony, and it can help you too. (Luke 22:41-43) Is it difficult for you to pray? Ask others to pray with you and for you. (Colossians 1:3; James 5:14) Holy spirit will support your prayers. (Compare Romans 8:26, 27.) As with a painful physical illness, some with deep emotional wounds may not be completely healed in this system of things. But with Jehovah's help we can endure, and endurance is victory, as it was in Jesus' case. (John 16:33) "Trust in [Jehovah] at all times, O people. Before him pour out your heart. God is a refuge for us."Psalm 62:8.

What of the Alleged Abuser?

A person who actually abuses a child sexually is a rapist and should be viewed as such. Anyone victimized in this way has the right to accuse his abuser. Still, an accusation should not be made hastily if it is based solely on "repressed memories" of abuse. In this case the most important thing is for the sufferer to regain a degree of emotional stability. After the passage of some time, he may be in a better position to assess the "memories" and decide what, if anything, he wants to do about them.

Consider the case of Donna. She reportedly had eating disorders and went to a counselorapparently one of dubious competence. Soon she was accusing her father of incest and he was taken to court. The jury was deadlocked, so the father did not go to prison, but he was left with $100,000 in legal bills. Then, after all that, Donna told her parents that she no longer believed that the abuse happened!

Wisely, Solomon said: "Do not go forth to conduct a legal case hastily." (Proverbs 25:8) If there is some valid reason to suspect that the alleged perpetrator is still abusing children, a warning may have to be given. The congregation elders can help in such a case. Otherwise, take your time. Eventually, you may be content to let the matter drop. If, though, you want to confront the alleged perpetrator (after first assessing how you would feel about the possible responses), you have a right to do so.

During the time that the one experiencing "memories" is healing, awkward situations may arise. For example, an individual may have vivid mental images of being molested by someone he or she sees every day. No rules can be laid down for handling this. "Each one will carry his own load." (Galatians 6:5) Sometimes one may feel that a relative or a member of one's immediate family is involved. Remember the dubious nature of some "repressed memories" when it comes to identifying the one suspected of being a perpetrator. In such a situation, as long as the matter has not been firmly established, keeping contact with the familyat least by occasional visits, by letter, or by telephonewould show that one is trying to follow a Scriptural course.Compare Ephesians 6:1-3.

What Can Elders Do?

If the elders are approached by a member of the congregation who is experiencing flashbacks or "repressed memories" of child abuse, two of them are usually assigned to help. These elders should kindly encourage the afflicted one to focus for the time being on coping with the emotional distress. The names of any "remembered" abusers should be kept in strict confidence.

The elders' primary task is to act as shepherds. (Isaiah 32:1, 2; 1 Peter 5:2, 3) They should be especially careful to "clothe [themselves] with the tender affections of compassion, kindness, lowliness of mind, mildness, and long-suffering." (Colossians 3:12) Let them listen in a kindly way and then apply healing words from the Scriptures. (Proverbs 12:18) Some who are afflicted with painful "memories" have expressed appreciation for elders who make regular visits or even telephone calls to check to see how they are doing. Such contacts need not take a lot of time, but they show that Jehovah's organization cares. When the afflicted one realizes that his Christian brothers truly love him, he may be helped to recover a considerable degree of emotional balance.

What if the sufferer decides that he wants to make an accusation?# Then the two elders can advise him that, in line with the principle at Matthew 18:15, he should personally approach the accused about the matter. If the accuser is not emotionally able to do this face-to-face, it can be done by telephone or perhaps by writing a letter. In this way the one accused is given the opportunity to go on record before Jehovah with his answer to the accusation. He may even be able to present evidence that he could not have committed the abuse. Or perhaps the one accused will confess, and a reconciliation may be achieved. What a blessing that would be! If there is a confession, the two elders can handle matters further in accordance with Scriptural principles.

If the accusation is denied, the elders should explain to the accuser that nothing more can be done in a judicial way. And the congregation will continue to view the one accused as an innocent person. The Bible says that there must be two or three witnesses before judicial action can be taken. (2 Corinthians 13:1; 1 Timothy 5:19) Even if more than one person "remembers" abuse by the same individual, the nature of these recalls is just too uncertain to base judicial decisions on them without other supporting evidence. This does not mean that such "memories" are viewed as false (or that they are viewed as true). But Bible principles must be followed in establishing a matter judicially.

What if the one accusedthough denying the wrongdoingis really guilty? Does he "get away with it," as it were? Certainly not! The question of his guilt or innocence can be safely left in Jehovah's hands. "The sins of some men are publicly manifest, leading directly to judgment, but as for other men their sins also become manifest later." (1 Timothy 5:24; Romans 12:19; 14:12) The book of Proverbs says: "The expectation of the righteous ones is a rejoicing, but the very hope of the wicked ones will perish." "When a wicked man dies, his hope perishes." (Proverbs 10:28; 11:7) Ultimately, Jehovah God and Christ Jesus render everlasting judgment in justice.1 Corinthians 4:5

 

Your thoughts on this ? The high lighted is a bunch of HOG WASH to me and NOT all issues are handled in a LOVING manner.  Just  a touch of sarcasm here .. you bet your ....!

I don't want to start.. I may not finish.\

 

Edited by - xandria on 15 July 2002 7:15:54

Do you believe in god at all?

not being offensive just curious.

 

Bosho, What does your question have to do with the information above? Not trying to be offensive, just curious.

So basicly its the same old policy whitewashed. 

Im going to puke *PUKE*

Larc

I asked because Xandria highlighted the last part of the article about leaving it upto God.

If she believes in God (the biblical God of love) then surely she would believe he wouldn't let things go unanswered. in which case this part of the article is highly plausible.

I wondered if she felt that God would have retribution and if  yes, what form would it take.

That's why I asked.

Also because I'm a nosey git.

 

regards

Bosho

Bosho, there are a lot of people here who believe in God, but do not believe it is a good idea to sit by and let crimes go unpunished. "Waiting on Jehovah" is not the answer for rape, murder, spousal abuse, or pedophelia.

Oh no neither do I!

Of course these people should be held accountable and not just sit back and watch it happen!

But I think you're missing my point.

I just wondered why if a person who believes in God and therefore would be aware that God has said that he will do something about it, would highlight that paragraph.

Sometimes not even the secular authorites get it right.

My little niece was one that was failed (Interestingly by the police and not the WBTS.  They did far more to keep her safe than the police did!)

I think that paragraph is a "security blanket" for people like my sister in law (who is a witness).  It probably keeps her sane knowing that although the man who was accused is free to walk about, God WILL make him pay one day.

They (the police) couldn't do anything about it because there was no physical evidence ( my niece was three at the time.  Because it was a close family friend that was suspected (my niece was unable to talk properly still and it was very complicated, it happened in a round about way.  Her friend was abused (year older) and was "doing the same things to my niece that was done to her" that's how they found out what was going on.  The man was investigated, but because there was no physical evidence on either child other than what the authorities called "What they had done to each other* nothing could be done.  Both children were put on the "at risk" list and told that social workers would be apllied to look after them.  MY sister in law heard nothing more.  So much for protection!  She even rang them to find out if they were going to do anything. nada!

My sister in law copes by knowing God will sort it out.

I just wondered why then this paragrph was highlighted when it works.  It gives people peace of mind.

And if you read the bible and believe in God, then you'll know he WILL do something.

regards

Bosho

Bosho, I don't think anyone here would object to using phrases like that to give comfort to the abused. What many of us object to, is the use of such language to be used as an excuse for the sloppy work of many elders, which allows criminals to go free.

Bosho, what makes you think the god of the bible is a god of love? And if god hasn't "taken retribution" for any vile crimes against humanity in the last two thousand years, why should anyone have belief that he will in their particular case?  Inquiring minds want to know. Other type minds, may not, lol.

So some of them were not silly oh my!

Bosho, I'm not trying to respond for xandria, but I can answer as to my feelings for the last highlighted area.......Noone that believes in God would likely debate that he will deal with the guilty in his own time...... we all know there are  guilty that walk, look at the case of your niece. there are abusers that are even arrested and go to court and still, usually because of lack of evidence, walk......the belief that God will handle these matters in his time shouldn't, in the mean time, relieve adults of the responsibility of taking action to protect children.....that's pretty much a cop-out.......Have you ever heard of a child molester molesting one child and stopping?   authorities, not elders, are better able to investigate reports of molestation and are able to preserve testimony and any evidence that may hopefully get the molestor some time in jail and away from kids. Noone is debating, at least I don't believe anyone is, that a God wouldn't  deal with these abusers in  time, but for God's sake if the WTS believes in taking such a passive role in dealing with molestation allegations, then why are they so agressive in  taking action in allegations of smoking cigarettes, questioning a doctrine, or adult matters like an adult consenting to pre-marital sex? Why not just  wait on Jehovah to deal with these big-time offenders also instead of playing judge and jury?

your niece was abused and your family was rightfully distraught. but can you imagine how your sister-in-law would have felt if she found out that there had been previous allegations of this "friend"  molesting the four year old, and no investigation had taken place because the child's JW parents had relied on church elders, instead of authorities,  to handle the allegation? It is one thing for police to have no physical evidence and a child that's too young to communicate. It's another thing for a religious organization to suggest to a parent that police need not be notified in a molestation allegation. We're talking about child molestation here, not someone reporting a sister smoking in the grocery store parking lot.........

 

 

Edited by - deddaisy on 15 July 2002 23:17:13

The reason I posted this article is to pose the question of the eldership's responsiblity to help the victim recouperate from this trama. But in many cases this is not the fact. More damage is done.  When the victim is not allowed to voice concerns, to go to the police, to have a safe congregation to attend b/c the abuser is still in it ( and NOT getting counseling or being really dealt with on his abuses.). Then that is wrong.

Many of the Eldership .. work on supressing and oppressing the victim. Instead of dealing with the issue. They question in all deep details they judge. How is that being compassionate?

The point .. even though God will handle it in the end. There is a RESPONSIBLITY of the ELDER because he was placed in a SHEPARDING position over the congregation.

At least even if the police fail or what ever, at least the victim GOT the chance to put this person way. At least she/he will know that she /he, did his/her best to prevent this from happening to someone else.

This is not about me believing in God.. that is between God and I. This is about an article that states one thing.. and the Organization appointed members of the eldership (not all elders but there seems to be a lot of them)doing the other.

Xandria

What I was trying to say was this.

Please bear with me, sometimes what I write bears no resemblance to what I think!

Yes, you are right the elders do have a responsibilty; Yes they have failed alot of children. Yes they should be held accountable and made to pay for that!

But not all of them are bad.

And it is not policy to surpress victims or try to hide it. Their policy is for the individual to get in contact with the police as soon as they can. They will even do this on their behalf if required.

You can't kid me otherwise because it has happened to our family.

They didn't fail my niece.

The elders were the ones who said to my sister in law "get intouch with the authorites and quick"

The "person" (more like scum) who was responsible was in another congregation; The elders in my sisters congregation got into contact with the elders of the other cong. They held a meeting the same day and he was removed from all his responsibilties (he of course denied it and being never found guilty by a court of law he wasn't disfellowshipped either.

(If you are previous witnesses you should know they can only disfellowship if the person is unrepentant which denial is obviously unrepentant You may disagree with this, but I have no doubt that there would be lawsuit after lawsuit if they did disfellowship regardless of denial)

He was watched at every meeting and I mean watched! (They followed him everywhere from going to the toilet, and of course it didn't take long for the gossip mill to get to work and every one knew what was going on. Plus my sister in law made damn sure that she passed around to all her friends with children (and ones who didn't) what he'd been doing!)
Funny thing, he eventually got fed up with being watched and he left.

Even funnier, he's now an apostate he even speaks out against the organisation about his supposed "Miscarriage of justice, shunning etc!" If I ever got hold of him I'd give him a miscarriage of justice!

But God is a god of love...read your bible.... look around you.... watch your children.... sit beside a beautiful lake..he is love! of course bearing in mind if he'd done something about it a thousand years ago, Jesus wouldn't have come to earth...no ransom sacrifice.. no one survives.

You judge God by human standards. You can't do that.He is perfect; so his balance of wisdom, justice etc is perfect. Ours misses the mark by miles.

And he will make that man pay.... I can only imagine his face when he realises he's lost.

Death may be quick and he may no nothing after dying.

 But he will in the few seconds before he dies.  He'll know. And that's the revenge I want.

The courts don't do a great job sometimes. How can they when they are run by imperfect humans

The elders may have failed a lot of children and that is more than shameful that is horrendous and I feel so badly for each and every child who has suffered.]

But it isn't the policy to keep the police out of it.

Panorama may have shown the two that didn't. But they didn't ask about what the elders did for my sister in law.

Or for the two cases in a city by me recently. (Both sets of elders banned the brothers from their halls. (One has gone to prison and one was freed)) Contacted the police on the childrens' behalf, and helped as much as they could.

Unfortunatly not every elder is as good and responsible. Yeah so they screwed up badly and they should pay for that.
But don't burn the majority for the minority sins.

And before anyone points out that you are all apostates and I shouldn't be talking to you.  Funnily I'd guessed that already.
I have my own issues with the organisation which is why I came here. For some answers. To try to get some clarity as to which way I should go.

 

Repressed Memories.... interesting that they are using that angle in their stumbling defence.

Yes, recovery of "repressed memories" does not enjoy scientific favour, and is now rarely seen (much less since the repressed memory hey-day of the late 1980s). With just a few notable exceptions, the Psychiatric and scientific community does not believe in the concept of "recovery of repressed memories". (I won't go into the details here, although it is an interesting topic: look up False Memory Syndrome on google.com or see http://www.fmsfonline.org/ or http://fmsf.com/ for starters).

Recovery of repressed memories almost always involves (and in the case of proven false memories, always involves) an over eager analyst who unwittingly "feeds" the memory to the "victim" over the course of time.

For The Society (TM) to use this as part of their defense irks me because:

(A) this is another case of agreeing with science when it can help their cause (and of course conveniently forgetting all the times they have mocked the scientific method when its results were not in agreement with one of the beliefs).

(B) Since these recovered memories are recovered with the aid of an analyst, there is extremely little chance that any of the claims of molestation made by a JW are of the recovered memory type, since we know that they, to put it simply, don't agree with psychiatry. For proof of this last point, see http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/psychiatry.htm

(C) It "paints with a very broad bush". I can just hear the strong JWs now: "Well, all those ones that claimed to be molested by brothers & sisters were wrong, they were either mistaken or deliberately lieing. Maybe they went to a (satan-worshipping) psychiatrist who tricked them into believing the lie. Yup, they are all wrong.".

This last one bothers me the most, because it directly challenges the credibility of the victims, the vast majority of whom were molested/abused and now are having insult added to injury. Damn, this makes me angry.

Edited by - Quotes on 17 July 2002 22:40:24

I am a survivor of incest, sexual and physical abuse that started when I was a baby and continued until I was 5 years old.  Then it stopped completely.  I did not remember any of these events until I was 25.  I do take issue with you Quotes when you say that "recovery of repressed memories almost always involves an over eager analyst who unwittingly 'feeds' the memory to the victim over the course of time".  I experienced this phenomena of repressed memories first hand.  No one placed anything, memory or otherwise, in my head.  I began having these unexplained "blips", and flashes of bizarre memory long before I sought psychiatric help.  During the course of my therapy, neither of the two counselors I saw made any attempt to suggest events, people or places to me.  In fact, they were much more interested in the present day, and how I was struggling with depression, than in trying to piece together the past.  The memories were most definitely a side issue.  As an aside, I did some detective work, and talked with several members of my extended family and confirmed quite a lot of what I was remembering.  Obviously the memories of the actual rapes could not be confirmed because there were no witnesses (not even 2 witnesses!).   But in all candor, I doubt I will ever have definitive "proof" of who raped me, how many times or how often.  But then, I don't think that really matters.  I know it happened.  I was there and I don't need anyone else's approval or agreement to validate my reality. 

As far as False Memory Syndrome, the facts are that it is in as much dispute as the concept of repressed memories.  There was an article regarding this in a recent psychiatric journal (I'm sorry, but I don't recall which one) discussing this very subject.  According to the article I read, the website you referenced does have inaccuracies.  Personally I believe the whole thing needs further study to fully understand what is going on with human memory.  I do agree with you that to rely SOLELY on repressed memories is not a good idea, and yes there have been several instances where poorly trained therapists or those who had an agenda did in fact lead their patients into recalling events that never took place.  But please, do not paint us all as having made it up.  Not all abuse survivors are making it up.  Not everyone who was so traumatized as a child that they shut the memory of it away is a liar.  Some of us, just wish we were.

Peace

Chris

Bosho:

 

   As you read my post, I said MANY-- not all elders. Do not do what is should be required of them.

 Main Entry: ¹many
Pronunciation: 'me-nE
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): more /'mOr, 'mor/; most /'mOst/
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English manig; akin to Old High German manag many, Old Church Slavonic munogu much
Date: before 12th century
1 : consisting of or amounting to a large but indefinite number <worked for many years>
2 : being one of a large but indefinite number <many a man> <many another student>
- as many : the same in number <saw three plays in as many days>

As for God handling it all in the end.. that is his place to do so.  But it doesn't relieve us or the eldership in dealing with the issues.  To use and twist many  of the teachings to personal benefit, to shun the victim, to harm another person etc. is wrong.  An MANY ex-jw's have gone through to much pain and suffering at the hands of the MANY who are out there. 

It is way past time for the religions of the world to start to clean house. But as long as the blinder syndrome continues it will take a law of accountablity to make these things come to pass.

Your case with the Eldership is rare and I am glad to see that it was somewhat handled by the congregation being able to stand together to make sure this person was "watched". But even though he was "Watched " within the congregation he is released upon the community. Or even worse for him to start all over again in another congregation. As long as the denial continues our children are in danger... just look at the example in California.  Preditors can travel.. and infact do so.

The bible speaks upon rendering unto the laws of the land. Yet in so many cases...known and unknown it has not been done. If you call that being judemental.. then so be it. But by their fruits ...they are known to us.

Xandria

thank you Xandria for posting this. The fact they would use the scripture below I find very insensitive. If an Elder's daughter or wife had just been raped, would he want to hear this eg. thrown at him? Again, it's this separate from the world business. Let the rapist go and attack someone else?

 

When the Samaritan came along, his heart went out to the wounded man. What did he do? Did he insist on hearing every last detail about the beating? Or did the Samaritan get a description of the robbers and immediately chase after them? No. The man was hurt! So the Samaritan gently dressed his wounds and lovingly carried him to the safety of a nearby inn where he could recover.Luke 10:30-37.

 

 

Ps: I am not going to get into a discussion about God when the post was about the policies the WTS state for eldership to use in regards to the abused. .

Now if you want to ask if I do believe in God .. away from this issue of ACCOUNTABLITY to the congregation.

The answer is YES I believe in GOD and YES I have a relationship with him. But because I choose to read the Word of God,  instead of being spoon fed it by what the WATCHTOWER and AWAKE wants you to read and only think. That is using the teachings of a organization ran by men and interpreted by men as Gospel. There are too many contradictions within those teachings.  

So if you can read my heart through these posts and "JUDGE" me wanting so be it. 

For only GOD knows my heart.  Now that will make me a apostate from your way of religion. 

But again who stated that Jehovah chose the Witnesses to be his RELIGION on earth ?  Jehovah, GOD, which ever name you want for him is bigger than the Organization you are putting him in. ( another post for another time) ...anyhow. 

There is a difference between RELIGION and being spiritual. Knowing the word of God... doesn't equate knowing God.  Knowing God, is bigger than just reading his word. It is practicing it in your actions towards others.  

God is UNCONDITIONAL love.. and in a Organization that places conditions unto thier love then I question it.  Because we do not answer to them they are not our judge. God is.. yet they step in countless times to pass judgement and condemnation of a brother or sister.  An shun them or shame them into returning to an organization, that uses fear to keep people in line. How is that God's mercy ?   God is the only one who can "forgive" us for our sin.. he is the one that shows us mercy. He understands that we are imperfect.  We repent to him and ONLY him. Not to an organization of men. 

If the eldership truely were to shepard the congregation.. that man who abused your family member would not have only been removed from congregational duties. but would have recieved counseling. Would have had fellowship in helping him grow stronger in the Lord.  We are to help our brothers and sisters.. not harm them. 

 

 

So now you say they need counselling.

I think you're slightly mixed up here.  The elders responsibility is to the Children first.  In the case of my neice, the man was adamant he had done nothing.  How do you counsel that? 

You can't take take chances with children.

Most adults can protect themselves.  Children can't.

You say the elders should have counselled him and then what?

Let him back in to carry on?

As it stands that is no better than what the elders have done in the cases shown in Panorama.

Sorry, but you can't have it both ways.