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Breaking the Watchtower into Two Opossing Camps, Possible?

    Scott77 posted Sat, 14 Apr 2012 23:19:00 GMT(4/14/2012)

    Post 1686 of 3422
    Joined 4/3/2009

    Is there a possibility that the Watchtower will be split into two opposing camps at sometime in the foreseeable future? Judging from the past, do we envisage such a scenario happening before our eyes?

    Scott77

    Ding posted Sat, 14 Apr 2012 23:37:00 GMT(4/14/2012)

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    Joined 8/27/2010

    What two camps?

    F blondie posted Sat, 14 Apr 2012 23:43:00 GMT(4/14/2012)

    Post 33604 of 37119
    Joined 5/28/2001

    I think a group broke off around 1908, 1917, after 1925 and before and up to 1932 (the elected elder ended)

    A number of schisms developed within the congregations of Bible Students associated with the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania between 1909 and 1932. [2] [3] The most significant split began in 1917 following the election of Joseph Franklin Rutherford as president of the Watch Tower Society two months after Russell's death. The schism began with Rutherford's controversial replacement of four of the Society's board of directors and publication of the The Finished Mystery.

    Thousands of members left throughout the 1920s prompted in part by Rutherford's failed predictions for the year 1925, increasing disillusionment with his on-going doctrinal and organizational changes, and his campaign for centralized control of the movement. [2] William Schnell, author and former Jehovah's Witness, claims that three-quarters of the original Bible Students who had been associating with the Watch Tower Society in 1921 had left by 1931. [4] [5] [6] In 1930 Rutherford stated that "the total number of those who have withdrawn from the Society ... is comparatively large." [7]

    Between 1918 and 1929, several factions formed their own independent fellowships, including the Standfast Movement, the Pastoral Bible Institute , the Laymen's Home Missionary Movement founded by P.S.L. Johnson , and the Dawn Bible Students Association . These groups range from conservative, claiming to be Russell's true followers, to more liberal, claiming that Russell's role is not as important as once believed. [8] Rutherford's faction of the movement retained control of the Watch Tower Society [8] and adopted the name Jehovah's witnesses in July 1931. The cumulative worldwide membership of the various Bible Students groups independent of the Watch Tower Society is estimated at less than 75,000. [9] [10]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_Student_movement

    M thetrueone posted Sat, 14 Apr 2012 23:44:00 GMT(4/14/2012)

    Post 5889 of 5528
    Joined 9/18/2006

    I don't think it will become another big separation like when the IBSA broke away from Rutherford , which at the time was approximately 30%

    of the organization but there are possibilities of big doctrinal changes on the horizon, with perhaps a name change

    to either the AWAKE or Watchtower magazines. As time presses further past 1914 (2014+) the organization will once again be motivated

    to change their doctrines, to create a semblance of viability to their self proclaimed identy of being guided by god.

    1914 has become a proverbial dragging anchor for the organization which eventually they will be forced to take an axe and give it a chop.

    M Black Sheep posted Sun, 15 Apr 2012 00:01:00 GMT(4/15/2012)

    Post 8808 of 9989
    Joined 8/8/2003

    It has already split.

    The faithful on one side, ex-members on the other, and millions caught in middle by the WT's shunning rules.

    00DAD posted Sun, 15 Apr 2012 00:11:00 GMT(4/15/2012)

    Post 2281 of 5183
    Joined 7/29/2011

    There have indeed already been several sects splinter off of JWs:

    Jehovah's Witnesses splinter groups

    Keep in mind that they weren't known as JWs until 1931 so any sects that developed as offshoots before (see Blondie's post above) are technically NOT splinter groups of JWs.

    From one point of view, Rutherford can be considered an apostate of Russell's teachings and that he started his "own" religion when he basically conducted what in modern parlance would be called a hostile takeover of the WTBTS.

    erbie posted Sun, 15 Apr 2012 00:20:00 GMT(4/15/2012)

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    Joined 9/3/2011

    Yes, perhaps that's it. Maybe weare the other camp. Lets face it, most splinter groups fizzle out and die but I can't imagine a day when this site is empty.

    And it's better than starting your own cult.

    At least we can maintain our own integrity and not let someone else manage it.

    Scott77 posted Sun, 15 Apr 2012 03:31:00 GMT(4/15/2012)

    Post 1687 of 3422
    Joined 4/3/2009

    Well, Iam not only meaning breaking into two groups or more alone, but also one breakaway group or groups claiming a stake on all those assets of the Watchtower. Think of one group claiming rightful ownership of all those valueble estates while the other contesting the same. And both of them going all the way to the courts for settlements.

    Scott77

    stuckinamovement posted Sun, 15 Apr 2012 04:18:00 GMT(4/15/2012)

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    Joined 2/23/2010

    Scott77 you have a pm.

    Siam

    M moggy lover posted Sun, 15 Apr 2012 09:20:00 GMT(4/15/2012)

    Post 715 of 768
    Joined 11/25/2005

    I think that the way we are addressing the issue is somewhat out of sync with what Scott 77 is thinking about.

    We have been discussing groups that broke away from the WTS, leaving the original system working intact and legally in control of the existing framework that makes up the WTS mechanism. This has happened before and doubtless will happen again. But what is intriguing to contemplate, as Scott 77 does, is whether the actual WTS system collapses into itself! What then will happen to the legal instrumentality that once constituted this unified belief system?

    With no actual control body existing, or with what is existing fractured into equally hostile groups, and with each group insisting that the others have seceded, but with no one group in control of everything, it would involve much unseemly and unchristian squabbling, with the different groups fighting over what was once a united form of patronage. Suppose one group, calling itself the "True Watchtower Bible and Tract Society" made a grab for the printing facilities worldwide, while another, calling itself the "Redeemed WBTS" grabbed the real estate, and yet another grasped the finances, but failed to take that which is still held by the US Stock Exchange, and so on, it would leave a right royal stew.

    This is not so fanciful an idea to believe, since it has happened before. When HW Armstrong, inventor and Superintent of the World Wide Church of God died, His doctrinal and financial empire was split, like a mutated atomic explosion, and its operating structure was divided into various groups each claiming to be the true inheritor of the HWA legacy.

    Actually, for those who receive Randy Watters [Dogpatch] monthly E-Newsletter, he did discuss something like this some months ago. It was speculated that the groups would initially be split more along personal lines than theological. The doctrinal differences would emerge over time as this division evolved. Finding it impossible to get along with each other, the various members of the secretive leadership, mutually agree to divide the lucrative pie among themselves, each then going their separate ways.

    And starting all over again.

    Whether so drastic a possibility occurs is something we will have to wait and see.

    Sic transit gloria.

    Aussie Oz posted Sun, 15 Apr 2012 09:52:00 GMT(4/15/2012)

    Post 2989 of 3755
    Joined 11/12/2009

    Maybe one day all the lawyers will divide and conquer....

    I believe a lawyer fancying himself as a judge once did something similar.

    Oz

    Chariklo posted Sun, 15 Apr 2012 10:20:00 GMT(4/15/2012)

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    Joined 5/9/2011

    bookmarking

    00DAD posted Sun, 15 Apr 2012 19:02:00 GMT(4/15/2012)

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    Joined 7/29/2011

    moggy lover: [What if] ... the actual WTS system collapses into itself! What then will happen to the legal instrumentality that once constituted this unified belief system?

    Point, since it's essentially a legal corporation, SOMEONE would rise up and take the reins. However such a "hostile takeover" shakes out, whatever is left would loudly be proclaimed as the True and Authentic group.

    This is what Rutherford did. It worked then, it'll work again.

    BTW, the only reason this this belief system is "unified" is because any one that disagrees is thrown out. The leadership can and has and will continue to change the beliefs of the "system" whenever they want.

    You may want to read up on the 1954 Walsh Trail. It is very revealing on the subject of WT "unity."

    Scott77 posted Sun, 15 Apr 2012 19:32:00 GMT(4/15/2012)

    Post 1688 of 3422
    Joined 4/3/2009

    Scott77 you have a pm.

    Siam

    stuckinamovement

    Hi Siam,

    I have just responded back.

    Scott77

    F Gayle posted Sun, 15 Apr 2012 20:08:00 GMT(4/15/2012)

    Post 3375 of 4496
    Joined 11/17/2006

    Two opposing groups, claiming they are 'the' "faithful and discreet slave?"

    Both saying they believe in: Jehovah, no trinity, no immortal soul.

    From there, where will the line be drawn? At headquarters, TO level, elders

    Each claiming they are to be obeyed now and not questioned? Yet, JWs would have to 'think' from there to decide 'who's who' in JW land.

    Who will rule/control the Internet?

    7 million people beginning to think all at the same time,,yikes,,bedlam, chaos, babelism.

    Can you imagine what would even happen to 'this JWN' site?

    Scott77 posted Sun, 15 Apr 2012 20:19:00 GMT(4/15/2012)

    Post 1689 of 3422
    Joined 4/3/2009

    Can you imagine what would even happen to 'this JWN' site?
    Gayle

    Gayle,

    Undoubtedly, you have raised an important quetion for all of us.

    Scott77

    M thetrueone posted Sun, 15 Apr 2012 20:21:00 GMT(4/15/2012)

    Post 5906 of 5528
    Joined 9/18/2006

    but also one breakaway group or groups claiming a stake on all those assets of the Watchtower.

    Highly unlikely Scott77 since there is an established board of directors appointed to the WTS. Corporation, even if it is

    recognized as non-profit organization. So even if a couple of the GB members wanted to depart with the organization and take some

    of the assets with them they couldn't do it.

    M Dogpatch posted Sun, 15 Apr 2012 21:23:00 GMT(4/15/2012)

    Post 3635 of 3985
    Joined 12/26/2000

    moggy lover says,

    This is not so fanciful an idea to believe, since it has happened before. When HW Armstrong, inventor and Superintent of the World Wide Church of God died, His doctrinal and financial empire was split, like a mutated atomic explosion, and its operating structure was divided into various groups each claiming to be the true inheritor of the HWA legacy.

    Actually, for those who receive Randy Watters [Dogpatch] monthly E-Newsletter, he did discuss something like this some months ago. It was speculated that the groups would initially be split more along personal lines than theological. The doctrinal differences would emerge over time as this division evolved. Finding it impossible to get along with each other, the various members of the secretive leadership, mutually agree to divide the lucrative pie among themselves, each then going their separate ways.

    It is unlikely it would just split in two. Considering the primal nature of man to need attention and power and full control, there will likely be a lot of competition. :-)) In ten years you will have the original organization with its retarded leaders, and 20 different sects of a sect, some conservative, and some more radical than Rutherford's WT.

    Look, there are 7 million plus Witnesses out there. How many of them are ambitious alpha males who love to write about theology? Plus there are MANY charismatic Witnesses who could EASILY draw a crowd. Doctrinal differrences are not necessarily the main issue. Who gets into a cult because of doctrine alone?

    For years I received manuscripts to look over from ex-JWs who were dying to publish books on the end times, Revelation, etc. Much more important to them is gaining importance and a following. It takes no money, and the WT's money is useless to stop it. They will just be more comfy in Patterson, and mock and deride the dissenters - just another new hobby to them.

    Just look at the number of various breakoffs from Russelism! Can anyone list them?

    Seize the opportunity rules much harder than a polite separation. :-))

    It's inherent in the human race.

    Quit burying your head in the Bible and understand REAL human nature. Survival of the fittest.

    Zordino posted Sun, 15 Apr 2012 21:26:00 GMT(4/15/2012)

    Post 142 of 385
    Joined 2/7/2012

    Yes they may break into 2 opposing Groups. Cult Group Dumb and Cult Group Dumberer.

    M thetrueone posted Sun, 15 Apr 2012 21:29:00 GMT(4/15/2012)

    Post 5909 of 5528
    Joined 9/18/2006

    I wonder if a majority of the directors of the WTS. banned together in a move to dismantle the WTS. and reform

    into a different organization with different doctrines would that ever be a possibility ??

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