Who are the Underlappers? (This Generation)

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    00DAD posted Sat, 17 Mar 2012 17:16:00 GMT(3/17/2012)

    Post 1865 of 5183
    Joined 7/29/2011

    So I was thinking yesterday ... trying to figure out this New-Light TM understanding of the "Overlapping Generations" explanation of Mark 13:30, Matthew 24:34, etc. It can be confusing but I think I finally got it!

    I now understand that, in his Great Prophecy about the End of this System of Things, Jesus:

    "... evidently meant that the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation." - w2010 4/15, pps. 27-29

    And I understand that while it SEEMS to any logical, reasonable person that these two different groups are really from two completely different generations, they are in actual fact part of only one great, big happy Overlapping Generation. They are the Overlappers. Any previous misunderstanding of the meaning of the ordinary, common word "generation" was purely a mistake on my part, the fault was of course mine and mine alone. I accept full and complete responsibility for that and now I've got it straight! How happifying.

    But there's still a problem. Please help me out here if you can.

    What about the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 but whose lives did NOT overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation? I mean clearly many or even most of them--in fact possibly all but one of them--died before the first person in the second group was born. So what do we call THEM? Because obviously they weren't Overlappers. Should we call them Underlappers? I think that is an appropriate term.

    And while we're at it, what about those in the later group--the other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation--but were born AFTER the last anointed one in the first group died? I mean, cleary THEY are not "Overlappers" either! I mean not individually at least. They may be part of the group, but as unique people they don't qualify. Are they also Underlappers? It would seem so.

    This brings up a NEW problem. How do we distinguish between the Underlappers in the first group and the Underlappers in the second group? Such a dilemma. I propose that we call them Underlappers I and Underlappers II, the Sequel.

    That makes sense, don't you think?

    But then what about the Underlappers II that die before Armageddon. They're really under-achievers, don't you think? How should we identify them? It's really a problem!

    I do hope the Society publishes some more New Light TM on this very important subject soon. It would help to clarify matters. It's all so very confusing. Wouldn't it be much simpler if they just stuck to teaching us to be better, more loving and compassionate people than trying to reinvent new meanings for ordinary words like "generation"? What would Jesus do?

    I'm just sayin' is all!

    00DAD

    Disillusioned Lost-Lamb posted Sat, 17 Mar 2012 18:30:00 GMT(3/17/2012)

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    LOL

    It's kinda like leap frog.

    Under and Over Under and Over Under and Over Under and Over Under and Over Under and Over

    00DAD posted Sat, 17 Mar 2012 19:48:00 GMT(3/17/2012)

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    DLL, that's pretty funny: Leap-frog. What a way to create a theology for a world religion, eh?

    truth_b_known posted Sat, 17 Mar 2012 20:52:00 GMT(3/17/2012)

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    My father professes to be of the anointed. One thing I always found interesting, and you probably won't find much written about it by the WTB&TS, is his belief that all of the 144,000 must die and be resurrected prior to Armageddon. His reasoning behind this was that it is because the "kingdom government" is comprised of Jesus and the 144,000 in heaven. All who are part of that kingdom government have the privilege of participating in the events that unfold during Armageddon. For Armageddon to start prior to that kingdom government being complete would rob one of its members of that privilege.

    With over 10K+ professing to be of the annointed and growing, that just keeps putting the "big A" down the road. It's the end of the world and this time they mean it, for real.

    00DAD posted Sun, 18 Mar 2012 18:17:00 GMT(3/18/2012)

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    truth_b_known, yeah, the more you look at all the illogical teachings and inconsistencies in WT "Theology" it becomes more and more embarrassing to admit to one's self that you ever believed any of this silly nonsense and actually went around trying to convince others that it was "The Truth!"

    panhandlegirl posted Sun, 18 Mar 2012 20:22:00 GMT(3/18/2012)

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    I looked up the w2010 4/15 pp 27-29 and did not find your qutaion. I would like the read the complete article. What was the title of the article?

    I found that article to be "Are you following the Christ." Did I just miss it? Really interested, am an xjw.

    00DAD posted Sun, 18 Mar 2012 20:38:00 GMT(3/18/2012)

    Post 1886 of 5183
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    My mistake. It's from the Watchtower of Apr 15, 2010, page 10: Holy Spirit?s Role in the Outworking of Jehovah?s Purpose

    You can also see the same quote attributed to John Barr at the 2010 annual meeting in the Watchtower of June 15, 2010 p . 5. There, Barr presented the latest understanding of the generation.

    See Changes to the Generation Teaching on the jwfacts.com website for more info.

    00DAD posted Sun, 18 Mar 2012 20:42:00 GMT(3/18/2012)

    Post 1887 of 5183
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    panhandlegirl since you have that magazine would you mind posting a scan of the page with this quote on it?

    Thanks!!!

    00DAD

    panhandlegirl posted Mon, 19 Mar 2012 15:25:00 GMT(3/19/2012)

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    Well, I have just finished reading the article, "Holy Spirit's Role in the Outworking of Jehovah's Purpose." The writer uses a bizzarre method of reasoning, to say the least. It has been so long since I read/studied a WT that I can not now believe I actually believed all the nonsense. I hope that's not lible, but the whole reasoning is a little "out there." I don't think it could survive a serious critical analysis. I need to reread it and consider the scriptues quoted. I have a scanner but have no clue on how to use it. One of my friends told me all I had to do was push the "scan button" but I think I need a little more information that that. I will try and figure out how to do it but if anyone has any instructions on how to scan the material and get it on this site, I will try it.

    M OnTheWayOut posted Mon, 19 Mar 2012 15:34:00 GMT(3/19/2012)

    Post 15151 of 18535
    Joined 9/8/2006

    I have spent so much time trying to understand Watchtower thinking and trying to out-logic them.

    But no more. I refuse to be limited by trying to out-think Watchtower. Of course the OVERLAP GENERATION thing makes no sense, so exercises in examining it are only like mind-puzzles designed to entertain us- nothing more. Good job on that.

    Unthinking respect for authority is the enemy of truth- Albert Einstein. Put a Watchtower spin on that: Unthinking respect for the authority of Watchtower doctrine is the enemy of actual truth- OnTheWayOut.

    00DAD posted Tue, 20 Mar 2012 02:10:00 GMT(3/20/2012)

    Post 1917 of 5183
    Joined 7/29/2011

    OTWO: refuse to be limited by trying to out-think Watchtower. Of course the OVERLAP GENERATION thing makes no sense, so exercises in examining it are only like mind-puzzles designed to entertain us- nothing more. Good job on that.

    You're so right. Of course this whole post was a satirical farce just to further point out the ridiculousness of this teaching.

    I mean seriously, no other group on earth would ever attempt to say that people with a 99 year age difference are of the same generation because their lives "overlapped" no matter how momentarily.

    NOLAW posted Tue, 20 Mar 2012 02:49:00 GMT(3/20/2012)

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    Joined 2/5/2012

    New Light:

    According to the law of Relativity if you travel in space approaching the speed of light time passes slower for you. So the anointed who were eyewitnesses of 1914 and hit the launchpad are travelling with such a speed towards Pleiades (these Pleiades are in the spiritual heavens and not to be confused with the Pleiades we see with our naked eye) when they reach their destinaton will overlap with the generation of 10014!!!

    NOLAW

    panhandlegirl posted Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:35:00 GMT(3/20/2012)

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    13 Third, holy spirit is at work in bringing Bible truths to light. (Prov. 4:18) This magazine has long been used by “the faithful and discreet slave” as the primary channel for dispensing increased light. (Matt. 24:45) For example, consider our understanding of those who make up “this generation” mentioned by Jesus. (Read Matthew 24:32-34.) To what generation did Jesus refer? The article “Christ’s Presence—What Does It Mean to You?” explained that Jesus was referring, not to the wicked, but to his disciples, who were soon to be anointed with holy spirit. Jesus’ anointed followers, both in the first century and in our day, would be the ones who would not only see the sign but also discern its meaning—that Jesus “is near at the doors.”
    14 What does this explanation mean to us? Although we cannot measure the exact length of “this generation,” we do well to keep in mind several things about the word “generation”: It usually refers to people of varying ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period; it is not excessively long; and it has an end. (Ex. 1:6) How, then, are we to understand Jesus’ words about “this generation”? He evidently meant that the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation. That generation had a beginning, and it surely will have an end. The fulfillment of the various features of the sign clearly indicate that the tribulation must be near. By maintaining your sense of urgency and keeping on the watch, you show that you are keeping up with advancing light and following the leadings of holy spirit.—Mark 13:37.
    15 Fourth, holy spirit empowers us to declare the good news. (Acts 1:8) What else could explain how the good news has been preached earth wide? Think about it. You may be among those who, perhaps because of extreme shyness or apprehension, once thought, ‘I could never go preaching from house to house!’ Yet, you now have a zealous share in that work. Many faithful Witnesses of Jehovah have continued preaching in the face of opposition or persecution. Only God’s holy spirit can empower us to overcome daunting obstacles and to do things that would be impossible in our own strength. (Mic. 3:8; Matt. 17:20) By having a full share in the preaching work, you show that you are cooperating with that spirit.

    This is taken from the artice you mentioned. This article is written as if you should take everything they are say as 'ABSOLUTE TRUTH"

    Knowsnothing posted Tue, 20 Mar 2012 14:51:00 GMT(3/20/2012)

    Post 665 of 1269
    Joined 3/2/2011

    1st off, 00DAD, underlappers somehow gives me a picture of people drinking straight from the udder...

    To comment on the above post

    15 Fourth, holy spirit empowers us to declare the good news. (Acts 1:8) What else could explain how the good news has been preached earth wide? Think about it. You may be among those who, perhaps because of extreme shyness or apprehension, once thought, ‘I could never go preaching from house to house!’ Yet, you now have a zealous share in that work. Many faithful Witnesses of Jehovah have continued preaching in the face of opposition or persecution. Only God’s holy spirit can empower us to overcome daunting obstacles and to do things that would be impossible in our own strength. (Mic. 3:8; Matt. 17:20) By having a full share in the preaching work, you show that you are cooperating with that spirit.

    My comment: Hmm.... a printing organisation that has dedicated itself to this work isn't sufficient explanation? Where exactly does this invisible force come into play for, say, McDonald's?

    00DAD posted Tue, 20 Mar 2012 17:11:00 GMT(3/20/2012)

    Post 1928 of 5183
    Joined 7/29/2011

    Nice point Knowsnothing! Your moniker belies your clever wit.

    • What else could explain how McDonald's hamburgers have been served earth wide?
    • What else could explain how Nike shoes have been worn earth wide?
    • What else could explain how BMWs have been driven earth wide?

    ....

    Sometimes, what passes for "logic" in JW-land is pathetically lame.

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