The Watchtower Loses Action Against Bank (Fifth Third Bank)

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    TJ Curioso posted Thu, 13 Oct 2011 09:29:00 GMT(10/13/2011)

    Post 95 of 357
    Joined 7/11/2006

    The Watchtower loses action against the bank " Fifth Third Bank" - Ohio , USA.

    See here all the details and the final verdict :

    http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?xmldoc=In%20OHCO%2020111006735.xml&docbase=CSLWAR3-2007-CURR

    http://www.chargebacknews.com/news/fifth-third-bank-v-watch-tower-bible-tract-soc-of-pennsylvania-leaglecom

    www.sconet.state.oh.us/rod/docs/pdf/8/2011/2011-ohio-5180.pdf

    designs posted Thu, 13 Oct 2011 09:40:00 GMT(10/13/2011)

    Post 6709 of 19416
    Joined 6/17/2009

    If you want to see Vultures ripping at the carcus just watch the Society on Estate matters.

    Aussie Oz posted Thu, 13 Oct 2011 11:08:00 GMT(10/13/2011)

    Post 2280 of 3755
    Joined 11/12/2009

    I see some all to familiar WT ploys reading through that...

    Delay, deny, lie and appeal.

    Seems to be a recognizable Watchtower legal method of opperation.

    Oz

    Mad Sweeney posted Thu, 13 Oct 2011 14:34:00 GMT(10/13/2011)

    Post 6743 of 6964
    Joined 11/2/2009

    I've only read a portion of it so far but I find it despicable that a multi-billion dollar corporation like the Watchtower would fight with the family of a dead man over his $99K bank account. Just do the Christian thing and let the family keep the money.

    If the family are/were JWs, I hope this 'stumbled' them into reality - the Watchtower is a greedy commercial cult.

    cantleave posted Thu, 13 Oct 2011 14:43:00 GMT(10/13/2011)

    Post 7363 of 13292
    Joined 6/25/2009

    Absolutely disgusting. The more I learn about this dispicable cult, they more I want it to fail.

    designs posted Thu, 13 Oct 2011 14:52:00 GMT(10/13/2011)

    Post 6711 of 19416
    Joined 6/17/2009

    Aussie-

    There is a method to their maddness, court costs and legal fees are high and the Society is banking on creating enough pain that the families will cave and settle.

    M Paralipomenon posted Thu, 13 Oct 2011 14:59:00 GMT(10/13/2011)

    Post 1757 of 2168
    Joined 11/29/2006

    I honestly think this article is quite damaging to the WT's reputation if any active witness ever saw it.

    The WT likes to portray themselves as champions of free speech and fighting for the underdog in courts, but this clearly shows them money grubbing and trying to strong-arm individuals over money.

    Where is the glory to Jehovah in fighting over a dead man's cash?

    Sad.

    M wha happened? posted Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:03:00 GMT(10/13/2011)

    Post 4524 of 10466
    Joined 10/2/2004

    I wonder if Phil Donahue will hold them in high regard over this bit of news. Perhaps he should highlight their christlike behavior

    clarity posted Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:09:00 GMT(10/13/2011)

    Post 1190 of 4057
    Joined 8/9/2010

    Come to think of it ... I haven't seen these scriptures used in the mags for a very long time .......... now I know why!!!!!!

    >

    "Does anyone of you that has a case against the other ...dare to go to court.."

    "I am speaking to move you to shame..."

    "Really, then, it means altogether a defeat for you that you are having lawsuits with one another."

    "What, do you not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit.........

    ...nor greedy persons, nor extortioners ..." 1Cor 6:1-10

    >

    It was mentioned that watchtower had "volunteer" lawyers, paid for by you know who!!!

    Bloody money grubbers ..... wolves in sheep's clothing!

    clarity

    TimothyT posted Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:22:00 GMT(10/13/2011)

    Post 446 of 580
    Joined 2/23/2011

    Sigh...

    Once again the Christian principles of love, respect and reason have gone down the swanny in this organisation and have been replaced with cold, rigid protocol. They claim to be faithful and discreet slaves and Jesus disciples, yet for some reason they are eager to procure whatever Gold they can get their hands on for themselves (Matthew 10:9). Why is money so important to them when they are 'Jehovahs organisation'?

    Little by little, this organsation moves further and further away from Christianity. Its becoming more and more apparant.

    M startingover posted Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:23:00 GMT(10/13/2011)

    Post 1870 of 1970
    Joined 12/13/2001

    I can just imagine what the response would be if a JW was in the WT's position and they wrote to the WT for advice. I bet they would tell them not to pursue it so as to not bring reproach on Jehovah's name.

    This really says what they are all about, actions sure speak louder than words.

    ziddina posted Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:24:00 GMT(10/13/2011)

    Post 5754 of 10450
    Joined 4/8/2009

    Heh, heh...

    I love this part...

    Accordingly, because Watch Tower knew of the probate proceedings and understood that its outcome could adversely affect its interest in Dietrich's bank accounts, I would find its excuse for delay is only attributable to itself for its own failure to join or intervene. Moreover, Watch Tower's transfer of blame to Fifth Third is insufficient to rebut Fifth Third's defense of laches. Watch Tower "`was fully put upon inquiry, and the hardship of which [it] complains is the result of [its] own negligence and imprudence. "`

    I love to see the Watchtower fail, fail, fail!!

    In other words, the Watchtower lawyers weren't smart enough to act promptly, and as a result it appears that this financial 'cherry' is slipping out of their grasp...

    Perhaps the same mental 'rot' that afflicts the theological side of the Watchtower Corporation, affects its business side, also... Or, this is what comes of having lawyers educated in "Satan's" evil world - they missed a GOLDEN opportunity, here!!

    ziddina posted Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:29:00 GMT(10/13/2011)

    Post 5755 of 10450
    Joined 4/8/2009

    If I'm reading this correctly, this is the final word on this case..

    "Watch Tower has not raised any argument to rebut the prejudice established by Fifth Third, but only reiterates that any prejudice was because of Fifth Third's failure to join Watch Tower. Having found that Fifth Third owed no duty to put forward or defend Watch Tower's rights in probate court or assert Watch Tower's claim to Dietrich's bank accounts, I would find that Watch Tower's joinder argument is insufficient to establish a genuine issue of material fact thereby defeating summary judgment.

    {ΒΆ 47} Accordingly, I would find that summary judgment in favor of Fifth Third was proper. ..."

    That judgement was released on October 11th, 2011...

    I think the show's over, folks!! At least, I hope so...

    And the Watchtower Corporation walks off without its illicit gain of $99,000 dollars...

    Couldn't happen to a nastier cult!

    metatron posted Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:42:00 GMT(10/13/2011)

    Post 5835 of 7479
    Joined 4/7/2001

    This may be an example of the ugly fate awaiting the Watchtower. They discourage higher education and dumb down the literature and discourage critical thinking skills. The net result is an unsustainable cult that lacks skilled man power to run it.

    And let's not forget that they have much the same problem as backward Muslim nations in that they can't allow women to hold any leadership roles. Or perhaps I should amend that to include the few female lawyers they employ (and wonder how these women can look themselves in the mirror and not say,'I'm a wh*re for these cult leaders").

    They can't handle the complexities of the year 2011 with the meager personel they have - and they are cutting back all over the globe!

    There is a phrase "too stupid to live". We will see how that phrase applies to them.

    metatron

    M wha happened? posted Thu, 13 Oct 2011 17:47:00 GMT(10/13/2011)

    Post 4528 of 10466
    Joined 10/2/2004

    I haven't read into this yet. Are the other family memebers JW's?

    Mad Sweeney posted Thu, 13 Oct 2011 18:14:00 GMT(10/13/2011)

    Post 6746 of 6964
    Joined 11/2/2009

    Another interesting line from paragraph 16:

    Michelle Lewis, Watch Tower's manager of charitable planning, testified at deposition that Watch Tower became aware of the probate case shortly after it was filed. In a letter dated March 27, 2006, Watch Tower wrote its Ohio agent, attorney William Carse, as follows: "We would like to retain your services for the purpose of filing a notice of appearance on behalf of Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, and appearing at the May 2006, hearing at [probate court] with regard to the [Fifth Third] matter." One interesting thing is that the Borg seems to have an "agent" (lawyer) in every state - already lined up to get busy for the Borg when called for. More interesting is that a woman is the Borg's "manager of charitable planning" and able to testify in behalf of the organization. Fascinating. But in the Kingdom Hall she can't even carry a microphone or run a stereo system.

    Mad Sweeney posted Thu, 13 Oct 2011 18:30:00 GMT(10/13/2011)

    Post 6747 of 6964
    Joined 11/2/2009

    There's the legal stuff, which is fairly interesting, and then there's what actually happened, which can only be speculated at.

    Looks to me like Deitrich had named his mother as beneficiary to his accounts in the case of his death first. Then he went to the bank to ask for that to be changed to name the Borg as beneficiary. Bank staffer tells him that he has to fill out new paperwork to make it happen. He probably is unsure of the exact name to put on it (Watch Tower Society, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, Watch Tower, Faithful and Discreet Slave, Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, or what?) or some other specific detail he doesn't have to hand, and so tells the bank staffer he'll find out exactly what to put on it and then come back. It slips his mind and he never comes back. In the meantime, the beneficiary has been changed to Watch Tower in the bank's computer as the staffer was typing it up during Deitrich's visit, but the hard copy paperwork never got completed.

    OR

    Same sort of situation at the beginning but the bank was out of blank copies at the moment and the Xerox repairman was working on the copier at the time Deitrich was visiting the bank to change beneficiaries. Bank staffer apologizes for being unable to finish the changeover and can he please come back in an hour or so? Sure, he says, but he never does. Boom. Transaction is left completed in the computer but not on any hardcopy signed paperwork as required.

    Oops.

    There are other scenarios that may have happened, too, but I think my speculations are the two most likely.

    compound complex posted Thu, 13 Oct 2011 18:45:00 GMT(10/13/2011)

    Post 9021 of 10534
    Joined 8/4/2006

    Thanks, Ziddy and Mad, for your analyses ... was having some difficulty wading through the legalese in my futile determination as to what truly had transpired.

    CoCo

    Violia posted Thu, 13 Oct 2011 18:46:00 GMT(10/13/2011)

    Post 2130 of 3557
    Joined 4/11/2009

    I read over the entire thing and wow is it hard to read legal documents !. As Madd says, somehow the hard copy that officially changes the WT to the beneficiary is not carried out. It does get entered in the system however. What I read over and over again was the WT failed to assert it's right to the account in a timely manner. It appears the lawyer the wt has in Ohio may have let this one slip for them. The WT is suing the Bank b/c they claim that were it not for the negligence of one of it's employee's, they would have this money. The bank appears to say that the wt knew about this and did nothing. From what I read the WT was not watching this closely enough.

    This is about 100,000 which in the WT world is not that much money. I wonder if the WT will now turn around and sue the estate for the money? I wonder if the family is jws?

    Shout out to the Bank Teller!

    Mad Sweeney posted Thu, 13 Oct 2011 18:52:00 GMT(10/13/2011)

    Post 6748 of 6964
    Joined 11/2/2009

    Now that I've finished reading it, it seems to me that this thing *might* not be completely over.

    Apparently in the original trial, both the bank and the Watchtower asked the court for "summary judgment" and the trial court denied the Borg's request and granted the bank's.

    In this appeal, it looks to me (I'm not a lawyer but I've been in enough classes to understand a little of the vocabulary) as if the majority of appellate judges decided that the trial court was correct in denying summary judgment to the Watchtower but was INcorrect in granting summary judgment to the bank. This raises the question, which hopefully Band on the Run or someone else with qualifications can answer: does this mean the Watchtower can take another crack at the bank for its negligence?

    Also, am I correct in understanding the document that the Watchtower can't get THAT $99K back FROM the estate (aka the dead man's family), but they can still sue the bank for screwing it up in the first place?

    (PS. I know the document says Watch Tower and not Watchtower. What-the-heck-ever. We all know who we're talking about.)

    (PPS. Could the motive of the Watchtower for waiting be a PR move? They didn't want to be seen as taking a hundred grand from the needy family of a dead JW but have no qualms about suing the bank for the screw-up?)

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