Oz Govt following UK & French lead on Tax/Charity status

Just another update on 1 Australian Senators quest to squash the tax free status of Scientology/JW's and other cults:

http://www.theage.com.au/national/call-for-independent-charities-commission-20100912-1570g.html

Now the election is over, hopefully wont take too long for legislation to pass. Interesting that the Oz Government want to use the same French agency that helped overturn the JW's status in France.a

http://www.miviludes.gouv.fr/

Hmmm, will they close the local bethel or downsize?? Cheers, Mattieu

Yes governments should be able to decide what religions are acceptable or not for the people in their country and milk the ones they decide against with dedicated followers for money.

Tick the box for which religions the governments thinks are acceptable for you. Make your pick of 2 or 3 accessed and suitably governmentally shaped religions for you.

It is a predicted thing the move towards governments coming to the point of ultimately destroying religions but it is sad to see the reality of the stepping stones being set in place before they walk that road.

Go go Australia! 

debator: Lets hear it in all the details you can manage without a knee-jerk reaction. How would you explain to an australian tax-payer why scientology should have tax-excempt status?

The Kiwis would be happy to take over for them

ah, you Jehovah's witnesses...

are you feeling the persecution yet?

all JWs look forward to the day when governments squash/control religion...

oz

debator, you make a fair point but surely democratically elected governments do have a responsibility to protect their public from harm? Religious movements are not all equal, some may be benign, others destructive.

And surely when it comes to tax all religious institutions should pay their way - no exceptions.

As for charitable status, prove it.  A religious group should never be assumed to be charitable by default.

Why would I need to give reasons to a tax payer? Religions support themselves! They do not take taxes, tax exempt simply means they don't pay them!

If a Political Government are going to make this move why some religions but not all of them? You don't think France won't enjoy this new source of money from taxation of people's donations to their spiritual life and then think "hmmm lets do it to all of them?"

You do not see that taxing religions is just another way for polititions to get money from average people? and in this instance from peoples religious choices?

Our Spiritual choices are God's bailiwick not political leaders.

I respect political governments for the authority Jehovah has given them but they seem to be getting greedy as to what they control!

(side question on theology: If debator actually manage to give a coherent answer and not just evade the question using his usual anti-interlectual  rhetorical tricks, will that be a sign armageddon is imminent, or that hell is freezing over?)

Hi Nicolaou.

However demoncratically elected a Government is, it should not invade our spiritual choices.

In England you see two apposing political Partiess trying to run a country ATM after a recent demoncratic election and what is scary is the only thing they agreed on is how much power and money they get off the people.

In America a Personality is chosen as President and the reality is the political machine behind him making his choices for him.

Do I think any of these could make a sound choice as to what religions are suitable for me to believe in? ehh Nope.

Polititions should stay away from religion but like I said it is a predicted thing that they will not!

When I donate money to my chosen religion I am donating it to my God and his people, not to politicians.

Hi Bohm

How this happens? frankly, I don't know! Prophecy fullfillment is very much a "wait and see" situation all we can do is prepare ourselves.

debator: Okay, so your answer as to why scientology in particular should not pay taxes is:

• you dont have to give a reason (oookaaaay)
• because they dont get money from the government (hey, i dont either, should i have to pay taxes?)
• restating the definition of tax-excempt
• missing the point that the law is specifically against religions that match (or do not match) some set of criteria, then act confused on that point.
• stating that taxes is a way for the state to get money (...so it can pay for services it provide to everyone)
• stating you have freedom of religion.

Hell is not freezing so far...

Debator: Explain to an australian tax-payer why scientology should not have to pay taxes.

Try to do it without making up an argument that is irrelevant, or apply to non-religious groups like companies, or invoking freedoms that are not being threatened, such as the freedom to remain a  scientologist.

Don't worry about it debator.

If they are Jehovah's Org, He'll look after them....

.... If it isn't, he won't.

Renia/Debator:Prophecy fullfillment is very much a "wait and see" situation all we can do is prepare ourselves.

My reply: As opposed to the WT making false prophecies?  They do not wait and see.

When a religeion begins to act like a business then it should be taxed like one.  Tax status of donations and the exempt qualifications for charitable organizations are in place so that charitable giving/work is promoted.  Charity is briefly defined as: the benevolent goodwill toward or love of humanity.  It seems when an organization uses its cash for things other than directly supporting the "charitable" work, they are acting like a business...  In my opinion, Scientology is a business.  I'm not so sure about the Jw's though.  If they are still "selling books" someplace, it doesn't help their case.

DF

Hi bohm

Please don't sidetrack me with a strawman. Scientology may not be my choice of religion but ATM Jehovah has given freewill to choose and accept the consequences of that choice. 

If you want to be an Atheist and have a finite life? that is what you get...finite life.

If you want to join a religion that was started by a fiction writer? that is what you will get..fiction.

If you want to join a man-made false nameless triune God that doesn't exist in the bible? that is what you will get...non-existent nameless God.

My choice I fully accept is Jehovah and I accept the consequences of that choice too.

Religious people's donations to religions are not the political governmants jurisdiction. Unless a religion is actually breaking the laws of the land the governments should not be dealing with them. And they certainly should not be taxing our beliefs.

If you want to accept a man-mad cult (such as the JWs), you et a life of chasing after an elusive new world dangled before your eyes, at times by dates put forth as God's promise...and end up broke, having slaved for man...and perhaps having needless casualties along the way.

Hi Debator,

Firstly thank you for reading my post and making a comment. Great thing about this board is that we can have a view. Though could you please consider your following quote:

Unless a religion is actually breaking the laws of the land the governments should not be dealing with them

Now, when any religion, including JW's sign up to receive (and enjoy) a tax free exemption, they agree to abide by the legal requirements and the spirit of those regulations. Now once any religious organisatoin is found to be taking advantages of any loopholes in tax free legislation or abusing the system for a financial gain, they deserve to be investigated. Particuarly when a religion is asked what charitable acts they perform in the local community to deserve this tax status and the reply is "we go door to door teaching the Bible" then they desrev to be looked at.

And they certainly should not be taxing our beliefs.

They are not taxing anyones beliefs, just taxing the super profits that these religious corporations, including JW's make.

Food for thought. Cheers mate, Mattieu

Hi darthfader

Define business? Ours is a voluntary and non-profit organisation, we offer weekly bible studies for free for as long as a person wants them from our own time and free publications and bibles in multiple languages. So people all have the opportunity to learn about Jehovah God and his son Jesus. Our donations are from among ourselves.

People have a creteria of what they consider acceptable charity work..spirtual feeding is becoming very low on that list, if on it at all!

Feed the hungry? yes charity.

help the disabled? yes charity?

help the aged? yes charity?

build pretty gardens and parks? yes charity.

Cat sanctuary? yes charity

Feed people spiritual knowledge about God and teach his word the Bible?...NO it's not real, God isn't real! religions need to prove they do charitable things like above. Never mind what God people believe in.

You think the governments should have a money slice of our spiritual choices?

The fruitage of this is religions will have to drop God and do acceptable charity work instead!

Hi math

I refer you to the above and add

So if a religion makes too much money a government is allowed to cream some off for themselves?

Mark 12:17

Jesus then said: “Pay back Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.”. . .

A while ago someone got a copy of the WT 2005  company tax statement in Australia. $16 million donated and it listed $1500 as being disposed of in "charitable" works! We all know how much money they give in this way.

Even some little old lady down to her last penny is first sent back to beg from her family before she is helped out, and then it will usually be by an individual and not the cong! No one gets their hands on that cash!

Exactly 3moz

I pay taxes to my government. when I donate to my religion it is for God not governments.