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Okkkkk...you MESS with my kids and you MESS WITH ME JWs!!!

    WuzLovesDubs posted Thu, 11 Feb 2010 04:12:00 GMT(2/11/2010)

    Post 894 of 1151
    Joined 7/28/2003

    I have soooo had it with these assholes...sooooo HAD IT!! My daughter who is 19 is pre-engaged to a wonderful 20 year old guy who treats her like a princess. He lives with us to both help me with the rent and for them to save some money for their future. They both work and go to school. Even though they share a room and a bed, they are both still virgins and even though no one believes that...I do. Its what they both want. It angers her that no one believes them. She is the sweetest lady on the planet. Never was a JW. I made sure of that.

    She wanted to take her fiance up to where we used to live to show him her old home and for our relatives to get to know him better, over their spring break. She was wanting to stay with her grandmother, my EXJW mother in law. I warned her that I didnt think she would be allowed to do that because of who my mother in law is married to...a sickeningly self righteous holier than thou JW elder.

    Sure enough...said elder called and ...coward that he is....left a message on my daughters cell phone while she was at work and said that he couldnt have that "situation" at his home and that he was "uncomfortable" having them both under his roof! He said "one or the other of you can stay here but not both of you."

    What the FUCK??? She isnt even his BLOOD!! And he wont allow the two of them, even in SEPARATE ROOMS to stay there??? She is soooo upset and sooo hurt. She doesnt want to see him AT ALL now like EVER again and she is mortified that her family is treating them both like they were horrible sinning DIRTY people not welcome in her own grandmothers home! My mother in law is helpless to do anything about this. She couldnt even have so much as one present or a tree or a wreath at Christmas...and even though today is her youngest daughters 40th birthday..no party was allowed.

    And as sure as I am sitting here typing this...this asshole is on the computer sending a message to my exhusband, this childs JW dad, and the other JWs in the family GLOATING about how he stood up for Jehovahs Christian Principles by denying this fornicating couple access to his "clean" house. I want to throw up...I realllllly do. If I ever see this son of a bitch again, I will knock his fucking teeth out for doing this to them.

    F purplesofa posted Thu, 11 Feb 2010 04:20:00 GMT(2/11/2010)

    Post 10719 of 11578
    Joined 2/19/2005

    I know people that are not JW's that have a problem with couples staying at their houses that aren't married, even in seperate rooms.

    shamus100 posted Thu, 11 Feb 2010 04:21:00 GMT(2/11/2010)

    Post 4090 of 8685
    Joined 2/10/2008

    Lesson learned here: cut them out of your life like cancer.

    Remember, they want a response out of you. Don't give it to them. Just cut them out.

    WuzLovesDubs posted Thu, 11 Feb 2010 04:28:00 GMT(2/11/2010)

    Post 895 of 1151
    Joined 7/28/2003

    These are not strangers Purps...this is his step granddaughter...someone he knows from birth and said he loves and yet he doesnt trust her? What possible reason could he have for doing this to her? Is he "saving" her from what is almost CERTAIN sexual contact? Are there JWs watching his house that know there are (gasp) unmarried people under the same roof who might sneak out of their rooms and fornicate on the washing machine? There no reason on the planet why he is doing this except because he is a control freak. And to show his EXJW brow beaten wife HE is in charge of all things.

    M AllTimeJeff posted Thu, 11 Feb 2010 04:34:00 GMT(2/11/2010)

    Post 4591 of 5820
    Joined 11/9/2006

    Wuz

    You gotta know that any elder would say what he said. It's predictable.

    I agree though, cut them out. It isn't worth it. I doubt you can ignore them, but if you can, thats the best thing to do......

    Elders are virus carriers.

    F purplesofa posted Thu, 11 Feb 2010 04:45:00 GMT(2/11/2010)

    Post 10723 of 11578
    Joined 2/19/2005

    I know it is upsetting, but really, people of all religions and non-religions have what they will allow and tolerate in their own home.

    For some it's not allowing pets to come with house guests.

    I'm just saying, it's not just JW's that have rules and things that make one feel uncomfortable in their own home.

    purps

    Out at Last! posted Thu, 11 Feb 2010 05:30:00 GMT(2/11/2010)

    Post 267 of 442
    Joined 8/29/2009

    You know jw's love to act hollier than thou, any chance to show it encourages more of it. Try to avoid them if at all possible. Maybe your daughter and BF can meet grandma somewhere away from uber elder. It may not be what she wanted, but atleast BF can meet her/your family.

    truthseekeriam posted Thu, 11 Feb 2010 05:36:00 GMT(2/11/2010)

    Post 287 of 954
    Joined 5/13/2009

    I agree with out at last. Why not just stay in a hotel for a weekend?

    No need to ruin her plans to show off her home town and get to know the family.

    Aussie Oz posted Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:13:00 GMT(2/11/2010)

    Post 423 of 3755
    Joined 11/12/2009

    and yet my mum, who i consider the only sane witness i know, was very happy to have me (D/F) and my girlfriend (now wife) stay with her. Out of respect i brought up sleeping arangements that we would be happy to sleep seperatly .

    the visit was wonderful with absolutley no judgement nor even a hint of preaching at my girl.

    i wish every body's JW mum was like mine

    oz

    cameo-d posted Thu, 11 Feb 2010 09:36:00 GMT(2/11/2010)

    Post 5471 of 6842
    Joined 7/30/2008

    This is not a JW thing. I have seen this same attitude among people of various backgrounds and religions. Growing up it was just considered proper ettiquite that an un- married couple would not impose themselves as houseguests at the same lodging. It would have been brazen and indignant to expect accomodation and especially to share a room together. It hasn't been that long ago that this would be considered a violation of 'common decency' and would bring shame on a family.

    Any householder has the inherent right to establish a precedent in his home. For you to expect the relatives to accept this relationship and intrusion which goes against their moral conscience, well it seems like you are bulldozing.

    To have them sharing a bed in your own house...and believing there's no hanky panky, tells me that you are really naieve.

    I think when you are in someone else's space, you should be considerate of them.

    freddo posted Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:17:00 GMT(2/11/2010)

    Post 106 of 229
    Joined 5/13/2009

    What cameo-d said. +1

    F yesidid posted Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:40:00 GMT(2/11/2010)

    Post 1411 of 1970
    Joined 12/11/2002

    Have to agree

    with cameo-d.

    y

    F nelly136 posted Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:59:00 GMT(2/11/2010)

    Post 2855 of 3750
    Joined 12/14/2000

    I warned her that I didnt think she would be allowed to do that because of who my mother in law is married to...a sickeningly self righteous holier than thou JW elder.

    so really you were expecting this outcome, if you know in advance how its going to pan out then theres not much point working yourself up into a frenzy over an expected conclusion, it'll just give you acid indigestion and ulcers arnt fun.

    when youre dealing with jws its sometimes quite easy to pre-empt their reaction to certain situations,

    you knew they wouldnt be able to share a room so it would have saved time effort and energy to book a hotel or arrange to stay with other friends in the area. that way the control wouldnt have been handed to someone who you know is going to say no and take pleasure out of doing so.

    artemis.design posted Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:25:00 GMT(2/11/2010)

    Post 59 of 128
    Joined 8/5/2009

    I know how fustrating it is. I am 32 and have lived with my partner for 3 years, but when we visit relatives we can still not stay over night, neither will relatives stay over at our house. But I don't think it is worth getting worked up about. I doubt many dubs would allow it. At least they are willing to have some form of relationship with your daughter, and getting angry about it makes you look worse. Like others have said, this is not just a dub thing, and if you knew this was gonna happen then why not just book a hotel. Life is too short to get angry about the unavoidable.

    As for you daughter and partner still being virgins... yeh right. I don't mean that offensive, it just human nature. A heard of wild elephants can't stop the passion of young teenagers.

    Arte ;)

    bulgogiboy posted Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:32:00 GMT(2/11/2010)

    Post 67 of 138
    Joined 12/21/2009

    A very frustrating situation indeed, of which I have had some experience myself. You have my sympathies. I experienced this kind of thing firstly over in Turkey where it wasnt jw half-assed 'morals' I had to contend with but Muslim half-assed 'morals'. On a night when I asked to stay over, surprisingly my gf's Mother was quite happy for me to sleep there in a separate room, but her son (around my age) was uncomfortable with it, so it didnt happen. My gf drove a very angry me home and we had sex on my sofa instead . But anyway I digress...

    What can I say about these types of situations? Sex and sexuality have a bizarre effect on peoples' thinking, and as other posters have pointed out this isnt restricted to jws by any means. Even otherwise liberal, secular people can have remarkably closed-minded and prudish attitudes when it comes to sex, particularly when it comes to their own children or relatives, and even more particularly so when it comes to female relatives.

    Another example: I have been seeing a lovely, highly educated lady with a good job for about 4 months now. She's told me that her parents are both alcoholics and that her Father used to physically abuse his wife and her, and her siblings when they were younger. By all accounts he sounds like a nasty man, and she wont even talk to him. She also said that even after age 18, her and her sisters had to keep any relationships with men secret because of the prudishness of her parents, particularly her Father. She said even now, at age 30, there would be no chance of me staying over with her in their house. This would offend the notion of 'morality' in a man who has been addicted to alcohol for decades and seems to feel no remorse over beating up his wife or his children. Go figure, as the Americans say.

    You just have to look around the Muslim world at so-called 'honor killings' to see how far this twisting of morality can be taken when it comes to sex. In many cases it is deemed to be more 'moral' to kill your daughter than to let her have pre-marital sex, or even simply associate with men she is not married to. Have a read of this story from Eastern Turkey, where, aided by relatives, a father buried his daughter alive because she had simply been talking to boys!

    The story:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1248676/Turkish-girl-16-buried-alive-friendships-boys.html

    Like I say, I do sympathise with your frustration, I really do, but the shame surrounding sex isnt a jw thing, in my opinion it will always be there in the human psyche. Even the most revolting violence can even seem more acceptable than the natural sexual act that causes us all to exist. You could have encountered the same attitude from any number of people, regardless of their religious stance. I think the best thing you can do is pay for them to stay in a hotel up there, so they can stay together and not worry about who they are going to offend.

    As to them sleeping in the same bed and being virgins. It seems a bit odd to me. If they are both over 18, in love, and able to use adequate contraception, then why deny their natural urges? Life is short, you dont know when it will end, why are they denying themselves that pleasure? My guess would be they are probably doing what jw courting couples get up to, which is that they technically may still be 'virgins' but you would definitely need to knock hard on that door before asking to enter, when they are in bed...

    awildflower posted Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:20:00 GMT(2/11/2010)

    Post 454 of 1155
    Joined 5/17/2009

    And he wont allow the two of them, even in SEPARATE ROOMS to stay there???

    So she tried to make other arrangements with him? It sounds like she was trying to respect his home and at least by suggesting to stay in separate rooms? If that's the case and he still didn't agree then, yes he's just being an a-hole, imo. He could have worked with them. But I have to admit, I wouldn't let a young couple stay in my house in the same bed either, separate rooms, yes, and only because right now I have a 13 year old daughter at home still. I might not care after that if they were engaged, idk. And I also have to say, it would be highly unlikely that these kids haven't had sex before. As moms we'd like to believe not, but that's usually not the case. BUT if it is, that's between them and only they know and good for them if they're waiting, but it sure would be a temptation to sleep together and not doing ANYTHING?? And I know how it feels as a mom when the jw's, especially these idiot men, mess with your kids. It happened to me and that's what started my fade.

    This young couple is just going to have to respect the rules in the other house like they would anywhere else I'm afraid. But hang in there mom....wf

    VIII posted Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:42:00 GMT(2/11/2010)

    Post 913 of 1419
    Joined 3/9/2009

    I have to agree with cameo-D.

    Look, you know that there is a "...a sickeningly self righteous holier than thou JW elder."

    If you actually believe a holier than thou JW Elder is going to let any unmarried, young people sleep in his home, you are delusional. Seriously. Sorry to be blunt, but you need to take a step back and look at it from *his* viewpoint.

    He has his position to think about. His reputation. As a leader of the pack of Dubs, he has to uphold all the rules and regulations he imposes upon others. If he lets his step-grand-daughter and her boyfriend come by and stay, he will have to bend the rules for anyone in the Cong who finds out he did it--and they will find out. They always do. He will be a hypocrite.

    He won't risk it. His position as an Elder is too important. You have to realize that after being on this board.

    As for them sharing a bed and not having sex--you are also delusional. Hopefully they are using protection. At least put some condoms somewhere where they can find them. For their sake and their future. Having kids so young is tough. Some close relatives did and they never finished school etc.

    BTW, the sleeping arrangements of people in someone else's home comes up in Dear Abby to Ann Landers to every advice columnist in any US paper. Not having unmarried people sleep together is not a JW thing, nor a religious thing. The people could be 19 or 60. People who have guests in their home just don't want to know that people are having sex in their beds, apparently. Unmarried.

    Why, I don't know. However, Motel/Hotel is always an option.

    Cutting people out of your life, just over this seems extreme and over the top. Especially if the JW Elder is talking to you and them. I would think long and hard about that. Throwing people away over a *morality* issue, that you claim doesn't exist, should be a last resort.

    garyneal posted Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:53:00 GMT(2/11/2010)

    Post 634 of 3403
    Joined 9/5/2009

    Okay, at first I was under the impression that some JW's really messed with your kids in a harmful way because of the title. Now I think that it was not really as bad as the title makes it out to be.

    You let kids sleep in the same room and same bed? My mom allowed that briefly for my girlfriend and I a number of years back (years before I met my wife) and looking back all I can say is, "What was she thinking?" I love my mom dearly, but I can never see myself allowing my son or daughter to share a bed in my household with his or her significant other. Sorry, but I plan to be a real prude on this one. There are standards.

    As for the elder, his house, his rules. My mother-in-law would not come stay in our house back when my wife and I were engaged but not yet married. It sounds prudish to the so called enlightened people of today but personally I found it something I respected of her when I later found out.

    Now I understand everyone has his or her own standards of decency and sometimes the rules are not so hard and fast. Remember the TV show Rosanne? I recall Darlene's boyfriend lived with the family under the same roof with Darlene for a while. This happened, obviously, because the boyfriend's mother was totally no good and Rosanne had little other choice (though if she certainly did not want it this way). If you are okay with your daughter sleeping with her boyfriend under your roof that is your business, at least they are both over 18.

    All I am saying is you can't get too mad at the elder for just simply upholding his standards.

    Out at Last! posted Thu, 11 Feb 2010 19:15:00 GMT(2/11/2010)

    Post 271 of 442
    Joined 8/29/2009

    Aussie -

    i wish every body's JW mum was like mine

    oz

    Believe me, si do I.

    Blue Grass posted Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:55:00 GMT(2/11/2010)

    Post 109 of 294
    Joined 3/22/2009
    They both work and go to school. Even though they share a room and a bed, they are both still virgins and even though no one believes that...I do. Its what they both want.

    You take being naive to a whole notha level. If they are not having sex, why do you suppose they both want to sleep in the same bed? I don't understand why you're upset with this guy for not wanting unmarried teens having sex in his house. I would imagine that most people(not just religious) would agree with him on this matter.

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