Jehovahs Witnesses are banned in Russia

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    Quadraphoenix posted Wed, 09 Dec 2009 08:27:00 GMT(12/9/2009)

    Post 14 of 13
    Joined 12/2/2009

    http://www.forum18.org/Archive.php?article_id=1385

    This is very exciting news for all of us, especially for the ones that want to leave that are in Russia.

    Regards

    Quadraphoenix

    M Black Sheep posted Wed, 09 Dec 2009 08:43:00 GMT(12/9/2009)

    Post 3844 of 10004
    Joined 8/8/2003

    Since when has banning a cult weakened the resolve of the members?

    M Black Sheep posted Wed, 09 Dec 2009 09:01:00 GMT(12/9/2009)

    Post 3845 of 10004
    Joined 8/8/2003

    Ban on Jehovah’s Witnesses

    09 December 2009

    The Supreme Court on Tuesday upheld a ruling halting the activities of a regional branch of Jehovah’s Witnesses and banning dozens of its publications as extremist.

    The court rejected an appeal of September’s ruling by a regional court in Rostov-on-Don that outlawed the group’s activities in the region, seized its assets there and labeled 34 of its publications as extremist, court spokesman Pavel Odintsov said. The list includes a children’s book of Bible stories and its magazine, The Watchtower.

    http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/ban-on-jehovahs-witnesses/391133.html

    M Black Sheep posted Wed, 09 Dec 2009 09:03:00 GMT(12/9/2009)

    Post 3846 of 10004
    Joined 8/8/2003

    Supreme Court Labels Jehovah's Witnesses 'Extremist'

    08 December 2009 AP

    The country's highest court on Tuesday upheld a ruling halting the activities of a regional branch of Jehovah's Witnesses and banning dozens of its publications in what the group deplored as an unfair move.

    Supreme Court spokesman Pavel Odintsov said it rejected the group's appeal of September's ruling by a regional court in Rostov-on-Don. That ruling outlawed the group's activities in the region, seized its assets there and labeled 34 of its publications as extremist.

    The group said the list of books includes a children's book of Bible stories and its signature magazine, The Watchtower.

    "We are deeply disappointed with that decision," Jehovah's Witnesses spokesman Yaroslav Sivulsky told The Associated Press. "We are concerned that it may affect all our activities, including imports of our publications which are printed in Germany."

    Sivulsky said the Supreme Court specifically ruled that the 34 publications should be added to the federal list of publications considered extremist. He said this would effectively ban the publications throughout Russia.

    "We consider it to be a rollback to the past," Sivulsky said in a reference to the Soviet past when many members of Jehovah's Witnesses, including his father, were put in prisons. "The Supreme Court makes it illegal for us to profess our views."

    He said the group will appeal the Supreme Court's verdict to the European Court for Human Rights, arguing that the Russian courts misinterpreted the law. The law on combating extremism that served as a basis for the verdict has been widely criticized by many rights groups, which have said its loose phrasing allowed authorities to stifle dissent.

    A 2004 ruling by the Moscow City Court prohibited a Jehovah's Witnesses branch in the Russian capital from engaging in religious activity there.

    Sivulsky said there are at least 160,000 Jehovah's Witnesses in Russia.

    http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/supreme-court-labels-jehovahs-witnesses-extremist/391119.html

    Larsinger58 posted Wed, 09 Dec 2009 09:13:00 GMT(12/9/2009)

    Post 329 of 1174
    Joined 10/11/2009

    Well! This could happen in the US and worldwide for ALL religions. This may be the beginning.

    Let's face it, the WTS has way too many ties to the Illuminati, Freemasonry, etc if you listen to the conspiracy theorists. And we know they do not support local government. That could be construed as being extremist since if everybody in the country were witnesses there would be no government, right?

    Remember, when we see the UN ban world religion and the Federal Reserve, that signals the death of Babylon the Great and the takeover of the UN as a world authority. It will then be "a time and a season" until the UN is destroyed at Armageddon. That is, the UN is given 15 months to rule before Armageddon.

    I can't believe this! JWs are banned in Russia!! Their assets seized!

    Amazing, but consistent with what will happen worldwide!

    LS

    Larsinger58 posted Wed, 09 Dec 2009 09:14:00 GMT(12/9/2009)

    Post 330 of 1174
    Joined 10/11/2009

    This is great news for those looking forward to Armageddon coming soon.

    LS

    cantleave posted Wed, 09 Dec 2009 09:26:00 GMT(12/9/2009)

    Post 1212 of 13243
    Joined 6/25/2009

    LS I think you are great but personally I also think you are slightly mad - If you are right I may regret saying - well I'll dead so it won't matter.

    teel posted Wed, 09 Dec 2009 09:46:00 GMT(12/9/2009)

    Post 210 of 946
    Joined 8/28/2009

    From the articles it seems to me that the ruling only applies to the region of Rostov-on-Don. The court process started there, and the Supreme Court only upheld the ruling of the regional court. I don't think a regional court could make a ruling for all Russia.

    M Black Sheep posted Wed, 09 Dec 2009 10:04:00 GMT(12/9/2009)

    Post 3849 of 10004
    Joined 8/8/2003

    C'mon JCanon. Get real. They have been continiously banned somewhere on the planet for decades.

    This 'exciting news' is just one branch of one unimportant cult in one country, a country it has been banned in before.

    Cheers

    Chris

    M fokyc posted Wed, 09 Dec 2009 10:04:00 GMT(12/9/2009)

    Post 1062 of 1873
    Joined 5/30/2006

    Read the complete article here:

    http://www.forum18.org/Archive.php?article_id=1385

    I think some of you may not have looked at the implications and the way Russian law works.

    "The decision today (8 December) by Russia's Supreme Court in Moscow rejecting a Jehovah's Witness appeal opens the way for distribution of all their literature in Russia to be banned in future,"

    "...the Jehovah's Witnesses cannot appeal any further within Russia, they will now consider whether to take their case to the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) in Strasbourg."

    "...distribution of the 34 named Jehovah's Witness texts is now banned."

    fokyc

    metatron posted Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:46:00 GMT(12/9/2009)

    Post 4878 of 7440
    Joined 4/7/2001

    This is wonderful news. Do not fall victim to Watchtower propaganda about how persecution makes the organization stronger. The truth of the matter is more complex. Why is this good?

    First, they lose property and money. Cash flow is the Watchtower's Achilles Heel and less money will eventually mean less control...... but best of all ------

    A major national government has labeled them as "extremist" and banned them for that reason! THIS IS UTTERLY WONDERFUL!!!!!!!!!!!

    Why? Because now, they will be forced to defend their policies about shunning, and attacking other religions and other odious practices. If they protest to European nations about human rights ( which they ignore within the organization) , they will be pushed, kicking and screaming, towards compromise. They will be FORCED to overcome and disprove the accusation of being "Extremists" !

    Are they victims of prejudice? Victims of the Russian Orthodox Church? Sure, and so what?

    So, before you start whining and crying about human rights and freedom, etc. , etc. , Keep in mind that they are now classified not as traitors, or secret CIA agents or conspirators or enemies of the state but rather as "extremists". Now, they have a burden to be overcome.

    metatron

    M civicsi00 posted Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:07:00 GMT(12/9/2009)

    Post 527 of 616
    Joined 10/24/2007

    Damn, this is awesome. Babylon the Great The Watchtower has fallen in Russia!

    M besty posted Wed, 09 Dec 2009 18:33:00 GMT(12/9/2009)

    Post 2457 of 5440
    Joined 3/3/2005

    jw-media.org response

    <snip> Arli Chimirov, the lawyer representing the interests of Jehovah’s Witnesses, decried the ruling: “Today’s decision by the Supreme Court is a ruling against the freedom to manifest religious beliefs, and it affirms a misapplication of the Federal Law on Counteracting Extremist Activity to Jehovah’s Witnesses, who distribute these publications internationally. Jehovah’s Witnesses will appeal this matter to the European Court of Human Rights in order to protect freedom of religion in Russia, including the right to worship using religious literature of one’s choice and to peacefully share one’s beliefs with others. Meanwhile, I fear there will be many more acts of religious intolerance and hatred taken against Jehovah’s Witnesses because of the Court’s ruling.” </snip>

    Appeal to the ECHR - hmmmmmmm......is Russia even subject to the ECHR?

    YES.

    http://www.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/2/7/8/6/9/pages278691/p278691-1.php

    Abstract: Within the context of a broader study of transnational institutions and accountability, this paper examines the European Court of Human Rights’ effect on accountability within Russia’s political and judicial systems. Russia’s experience withthe ECHR to date has produced an ambivalent response from the Russian political leadership and judicial system. While the government continues to enforce citizens’ rights only selectively and has not changed course on some of the major issues raised in ECHR decisions, there are signs that Russia has taken steps toward remedying some of the human rights violations most frequently raised at the ECHR by its citizens. Russian judges, too, are paying attention to the ECHR’s rulings to varying degrees, which may in the long run improve the state’s legal accountability mechanisms. But over the decade during which Russia has been subject to ECHR rulings, the Russian government has become more authoritarian, not less. While transnational legal institutions like the ECHR give the aggrieved citizens of non rule-of-law states like Russia a chance for a fairhearing, their ability to force more than marginal improvements in governmentalaccountability is highly constrained.

    Short answer - good luck with your appeal WTBTS.

    You reap what you sow seems applicable here.

    Try letting your members exercise religious freedom when they leave the group before seeking that freedom for proselytizing recruiting new members.

    To all those people that defend the right for groups such as the WTBTS to exist - what answer do they offer to the abuse of rights of innocent victims of that group?

    My sons cannot have any sort of normal relationship with their paternal grandmother or their only uncle and his wife due to WTBTS shunning policy.

    Who defends the rights of my sons aged 4 and aged 2?

    ssn587 posted Wed, 09 Dec 2009 19:36:00 GMT(12/9/2009)

    Post 88 of 570
    Joined 4/27/2009

    I couldn't be happier, their view are extremist, and they want freedoms but aren't willing to put their asses on the line for it. their blood doctrines is reason enough to ban them. Good for the Russian Supreme Court.

    choosing life posted Wed, 09 Dec 2009 20:05:00 GMT(12/9/2009)

    Post 2386 of 2498
    Joined 4/15/2006

    Anything that makes them prove they allow human rights is a step in the right direction. I would love to see a long, drawn out case about shunning in the news.

    JWinprotest posted Wed, 09 Dec 2009 20:09:00 GMT(12/9/2009)

    Post 89 of 205
    Joined 6/2/2009

    This may be the first step to mainstreaming as so many on here have predicted.

    They will soften their view on many issues, to win back Russia's favor and to stop other countries close to Russia from following suit.

    F Mary posted Wed, 09 Dec 2009 20:52:00 GMT(12/9/2009)

    Post 10877 of 12750
    Joined 6/26/2002
    “Today’s decision by the Supreme Court is a ruling against the freedom to manifest religious beliefs, and it affirms a misapplication of the Federal Law on Counteracting Extremist Activity to Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    Hmmmm.......sounds alot like what happens in a Judicial Committee. Not so nice when it happens to you eh?

    Jehovah's Witnesses will appeal this matter to the European Court of Human Rights in order to protect freedom of religion in Russia, including the right to worship using religious literature of one’s choice and to peacefully share one’s beliefs with others.

    Here's a newsflash for Crooklyn: Russia is not the United States. The country was not founded on 'freedom of religion' and there is no Constitution that guarantees cults the Right to churn out a continual cesspool of literature which encourages hatred of all other religions besides themselves.

    But look on the bright side: This banning will be great for morale in the West as elders, CO's and DO's can all use it to 'prove' how close Armageddon is. Time to really crank up the heat on the R&F.

    M Elsewhere posted Wed, 09 Dec 2009 21:17:00 GMT(12/9/2009)

    Post 17961 of 17906
    Joined 2/8/2002

    > Since when has banning a cult weakened the resolve of the members?

    I agree.

    Cult members tend to suffer from a persecution complex. Banning them only serves to validate their believes and cause them to dig in and become even more devout.

    A better strategy would be to educate the public about such cults and require such cults to make public disclosure statements upon communication with anyone, members and non-members. (Similar to the warnings on cigarette packages)

    "Hi, I'm a Jehover's Witness. Jehover's Witnesses have been identified as a harmful high-control cult and I would like to try to convert you."

    M BurnTheShips posted Wed, 09 Dec 2009 21:20:00 GMT(12/9/2009)

    Post 13387 of 17945
    Joined 8/28/2006

    I think this is very bad. Banning freedom of religion, even if it is the Witnesses, is a violation of human rights. The JWs were aggressively banned and shipped off to Siberia under the Soviet regime, and this accomplished nothing. They were banned in Cuba also, and this only helped them multiply.

    F restrangled posted Wed, 09 Dec 2009 22:00:00 GMT(12/9/2009)

    Post 5935 of 6515
    Joined 6/10/2006

    Well, well well, it was suppose to be the great harlot first, and the JW's left alone and then attacked after all religions were gone...... and then the end would come...

    r.

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