Experience regarding "Cell Saver"

This happened a few months ago. A sister in a neighboring congregation, who I have known for many years, had to have surgery. I met with her and the doctor, to be of support to her. She said she had talked to another sister about Cell Saver, and she really wanted that for her surgery. He said OK.

So the doctor agreed, and she was very happy. The surgery was a success. When I went to visit her, there was a bag of blood above her head. She was still asleep. Her daughter, also a Witness, was upset about it. I told her it was the Cell Saver that her mother wanted. (Wikipedia - Intraoperative Cell Salvage Machine. It suctions, washes, and filters blood so it can be given back to the patient's body instead of being thrown away. One advantage to this is the patient receives his/her own blood instead of donor blood, so there is no risk of contracting outside diseases.)

The daughter got very upset, and wanted me to move the bag away from her mom's vision. I couldn't, of course. Then her mom woke up, and after a few minutes she starts to notice the bag of her blood. Then the nurse comes in, and a doctor, and the doctor says, "Well, looks like you need some blood." So she says, "No, I am a Witness, remember the paper I signed." He said, "Of course, but we are going to transfuse you with your own blood. That's what the Cell Saver is, it's a transfusion of your own blood. We discussed it already." The sister was visibly upset. So the nurse comes back in after a few minutes and says, "Ready for your transfusion?" as if she is getting her ready for her bath, or her lunch.  No big deal for her. But the sister is still upset, and starts to ask the nurse if the blood "stops" in the machine. The nurse didn't speak English well, so she says she can call the doctor again. But the sister's daughter reassures her its not really a transfusion. The nurse looks confused, but does her job.

Later she was doing better, the doctor said.

The reason I bring this up, I have mentioned this experience before on previous threads. is that the Society AVOIDS THE TERM BLOOD TRANSFUSION. The sister thought it was a little machine that cleans the blood and instantly pumps it back into your body. However the process actually works, the patient ends up WITH A BAG OF BLOOD ABOVE THEIR BED.

So the Witnesses are so ready to fight with the doctors and even die so as not to take blood. They read in the publications that they can have a "Cell Saver." The brochures cleverly avoid the term "blood transfusions in relation to that machine.

Here is the Awake article from  12/8/98 Pg. 20-1.  (Notice how they say "reuse" and "never having to store it" rather than "transfusion." 

Also significant is the improvement in intraoperative blood salvage machines. During an operation, these recover and immediately reuse the patient’s own blood, without having to store it. Newer machines, while remaining connected to the patient, can even separate blood into components and reuse those that are needed.

After the conference in Riga and upon hearing of Latvia’s need, Jehovah’s Witnesses in Sweden donated two cell-saver machines to Latvia. The arrival of the first one and the benefits of bloodless surgery created so much enthusiasm in Latvia that the event received national television coverage there.

The sister really suffered and thought she had compromised her faith. Even her daughter told me "Hey, Bonafide, could you please not say 'blood transfusion' to her? Just say, 'cell saver' ok? I said ok.

The sister is confused because she really didn't understand that her own blood essentially was going to be transfused, the daughter is confused, the doctor is confused because the patient requested it, the nurse is confused because its obviously a transfusion, but the sister doesn't want to use that term.

The Society really screws people up, especially trusting people, they use terms that give a different impression than reality.

BF 

Dear BonaFide,

Thank you for posting this, surely then this procedure is really an  "autologous" blood tranfusion? Something that was condemned in a 1989 Q.F.R

have they changed their minds on autologous transfusions ? If not, what is the difference with the cell saver, apart from the obvious , that blood is not stored for long with the cell-saver process, but what can possibly be the difference in principle ?

Their farcical doctrine on blood is really in HUGE disarray !

Love

Wobble

Marking and thank you for relaying that story. Yet another example of how jw's use an entirely different language than the rest of us and the problems it causes. In cases like this it could be quite deadly. cults, cults, cults!!

Very true and accurate experience.

It is almost impossible to comply with JW's requests for a continuous flow of blood when using a 'cellsaver',

even if it was possible you would always have blood in bags at the end of the procedure, these would then go to the ward with the patient for later transfusion, without the cell saver.

This has been known for a long time but the dubs seem to ignore it until an operation is required; even then they don't ask enough questions.

fokyc

Very interesting. I didn't know that. I will try to bring this up with my family. Here is an article explaining the procedure

http://wiki.noblood.org/Intraoperative_blood_salvage

The Society has purposely confused the whole blood issue so that Witnesses don't know what's 'acceptable' and what's not.  This experience is a perfect example of how their insane rules cause people so much unnecessary stress and anguish.

Some asshole recently told my sister that Witnesses are not allowed to have bone marrow transplants because it involves blood which really upset her.  Dozy gave me a quote from the 1984 WT where it clearly says that it's a conscience matter, so I forwarded it to my sister.

This whole blood issue is infuriating.  My b-i-l has a twin brother who would obviously be the best choice for a bone marrow/stem cell transplant but he's not sure if he should do it because you can't do this sort of procedure without a blood transfusion.  I swear to god, if my b-i-l dies because his brother would not help out, I'll never speak to him again and will let the newspapers know what happened.

F*cking religion.

Very interesting story.

Maybe she will begin to see that she's straining out the gnats.

Interesting indeed - I thought it needed to be continuous loop but looks like it does not need to be...Thanks for the post Bonafide!!

***lvpp.216-218BloodFractionsandSurgicalProcedures***
Surgicalprocedures. These include hemodilution and cell salvage. In hemodilution, blood is diverted from the body, replaced with a volume expander, and later returned to the patient. Cell salvage captures and returns blood lost during surgery. Blood is recovered from a wound or a body cavity, washed or filtered, and then reinfused into the patient. Because the methods of applying these techniques can vary from physician to physician, a Christian should find out what his doctor has in mind.

When making decisions about these procedures, ask yourself: 'If some of my blood will be diverted outside my body and the flow might even be interrupted for a time, will my conscience allow me to view this blood as still part of me, thus not requiring that it be "[poured] out upon the ground"? (Deuteronomy 12:23, 24) Would my Bible-trained conscience be troubled if during a medical procedure some of my own blood was withdrawn, modified, and directed back into my body? Am I aware that refusing all medical procedures involving the use of my own blood means that I would not accept a blood test, hemodialysis, or a heart-lung bypass machine?'

A Christian must decide for himself how he will allow his own blood to be handled in the course of a surgical procedure. The same applies to medical tests and current therapies that involve extracting a small amount of one's own blood, perhaps modifying it in some way, and then reinjecting it.


***km11/06p.6HowDoIViewBloodFractionsandMedicalProceduresInvolvingMyOwnBlood?***
CELL SALVAGEReducesblood loss.

Blood is recovered during surgery from a wound or body cavity. It is washed or filtered and then, perhaps in a continuous process, returned to the patient.

I accept
I might accept
I refuse

btt

http://www.vptest.co.uk/TACTICS2005/int05/00int05.htm

Thanks for an informative post Bona Fide.. btt

I got this from a later page: Do they make this clear in the Kingom Ministry?

" Most Jehovah's Witnesses who accept cell salvage request that a continuous circuit is maintained so that red cells may be reinfused immediately."

Hemodilution would be similar. Remove blood. Dilute blood in system during surgery. Reinfuse stored blood.

maybe one day a smart solicitor or lawyer will be able to use the borgs donating of cell savers to show that not only are transfusions allowed theyre condoned by the powers that be at the top.

Great link BluesBrother - thanks for posting!