Candace Conti - Preparing For The Appeal

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    M Joe Grundy posted Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:18:00 GMT(6/21/2012)

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    No doubt, WTBTS NY will appeal this to the best of their ability, and they have almost unlimited financial resources behind them.

    I wish I was in a position to fund Candace through the appeal, but I'm not, nor I am cognisant with California law or the general fedaral law in US.

    But I was a police officer in the UK for 30 years, 10 of that as a commander of a Fraud Squad, member of the National Working Group on Fraud, Europol, etc. I did spend some time in the US working with FBI on a joint case.

    My point is this. I've read through some of the court papers including depositions and the one that stuck in my mind was the dep taken from the witness who worked in Bethel and was asked about 'collated data' re child abusers. (It's been referenced here, but I can't link to it).

    I understand that the dep was taken by Candace's lawyer, or someone on the team, but it failed to produce the evidence properly because it didn't ask the questions in enough depth (common failing).

    For example:

    Is there a procedure whereby congregations report disciplinary committees to WTBTS?

    Are those reports filed?

    How are they filed?

    Is the subject matter of the discipline noted?

    etc., etc.

    It would not be hard to get to the point that reports of child abuse COULD be identified.

    The point of this post is that even though WTBTS have the financial resources (they think) a goood investigator going through their published papers and their personnel could blow the whole thing apart.

    And here is a genuine offer (I don't make less than genuine ones): I'd be happy to travel to CA and assist Candace's team (my expense) if it would help.

    M james_woods posted Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:20:00 GMT(6/21/2012)

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    Very nice gesture, Joe.

    What I am hoping is that some civic-liberties law entity (ACLU?) can assist her to sustain the case when it goes to appeal.

    And that the Watchtower ends up paying for their appeal and her defense of the appeal.

    M sir82 posted Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:25:00 GMT(6/21/2012)

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    Are there no ex-JW ex-elder trial lawyers out there?

    Someone who is intimately familiar with JW judicial committees and procedures?

    That would be the ideal attorney for this (or any similar) case.

    M james_woods posted Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:30:00 GMT(6/21/2012)

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    Are there no ex-JW ex-elder trial lawyers out there?
    Someone who is intimately familiar with JW judicial committees and procedures?
    That would be the ideal attorney for this (or any similar) case.

    Indeed, but such a person would be a very rare breed of an ex-JW. It seems to me that some libertarian law firm experienced in this field would be the best for this case.

    M Joe Grundy posted Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:34:00 GMT(6/21/2012)

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    sir82: The secret, the 'knack' in doing this is to 'play dumb' - get them to explain it to you as if you undertand nothing. Except you do (from research) and THEN you ask the 'beam me up scottie' questions.

    Worked for me. Oh, and KISS. Juries love that.

    M Joe Grundy posted Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:37:00 GMT(6/21/2012)

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    I'm not suggesting that Candace's lawyer was in any way deficient.

    Just offering a hand, is all.

    M james_woods posted Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:45:00 GMT(6/21/2012)

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    I'm not suggesting that Candace's lawyer was in any way deficient.
    Just offering a hand, is all.

    Right. After all, if he had lost the first round this would all be over by now and would no longer even be news.

    mind blown posted Thu, 21 Jun 2012 20:51:00 GMT(6/21/2012)

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    What you may want to think about is, if ANYONE is giving leading questions on this site, and or answers, and or gives information on strategy, it will be noted here by the WTS (without question they look here) and will help them cover their ass.

    Though this Atty has a huge network of experts, I'm sure any little info is appreciated. Best thing to do is contact the Atty directly if you have any suggestions.

    Be careful of the amo you are giving the WTS on a public boards.

    M Joe Grundy posted Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:05:00 GMT(6/21/2012)

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    MB: Noted.

    Does anyone have a direct link to Candace' attorney, please?

    blindnomore posted Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:06:00 GMT(6/21/2012)

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    I agree, mind blown. Joe here's Mr. Rick Simons's contact info:


    Band on the Run posted Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:10:00 GMT(6/21/2012)

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    The ACLU will not do it. Appeals are limited to the trial record. Appellate courts almost always focus on the legal rulings of the trial judge. The belief is that the witnesses do not tesitfy before the appeals court. They cannot see body language, hear voice inflections, --the trial judge and jury saw that. It will focus on whether legally the WT can be found liable. The trial judge, in deciding that the case could go forth, held a summary judgment motion. If all the facts that Conti pleaded could be proven satisfactorily, would the WT have liability? I don't know whether this was a maverick judge. If it truly was the first case to impose liability, chances are the verdict will be overturned. Every once in a long while, though, the law changes.

    I would think that whether the WT has liability should be matter for the CA legislature. Someone reported here that CA is not a mandatory reporting state for penance purposes. I found that shocking b/c California in countless areas of law has been the forerunner for the rest of the country. It serves as a valuable lab for other states to see the pragmatic effects of a progressive change. Laywers joke about CA law b/c it is so different from the rest of the country.

    Do JWs engage in penitient activities with JW ministers (not clelrgy) or do they engage in counselling, where mandatory reporting does exist.

    The momentum seems to be to carve out an exemption of the usually absolute clergy/penbitent privilege.

    This case will be decided by the CA appellate courts. We could do much to support a national trend, however, by writing letters to the editor, opinion pieces, calling in to topical talk shows, etc. I wonder if the Roman Catholic groups would embrace us since we have common cause.

    soft+gentle posted Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:15:00 GMT(6/21/2012)

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    most reports and letters to and from the society regarding child abuse in congregations are destroyed - this is WT policy.

    the comforting fact is that Barbara Anderson is working with Candace's attorney. this gives me confidence that no stone will be left unturned in refuting the society's appeal.

    eidt: okay, having read botr's post I'm going to defer to her summation.

    Balaamsass posted Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:22:00 GMT(6/21/2012)

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    That is an awsome offer Joe!

    cofty posted Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:24:00 GMT(6/21/2012)

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    Joe you have a unique set of skills as an ex-detective and ex-JW.

    Please let us know if the lawyer accepts your offer.

    M Joe Grundy posted Thu, 21 Jun 2012 21:47:00 GMT(6/21/2012)

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    Just spoke to Candace's law firm.

    The charming young lady confirmed that the appeal court will review only the material that was submitted at trial and thus there is no opportunity for re-interrogating witnesses, etc., so no, I can't be of much help. But I've left my contact details and am available if required.

    Just to clarify, no I never was a dub. I was raised in the (Open) Plymouth Brethren but have been an atheist for many years.

    And to repeat my offer - I am now retired but have a lot of experience in child abuse cases. I am able to be self-funding and offer any help I can to those who need it.

    mind blown posted Thu, 21 Jun 2012 22:03:00 GMT(6/21/2012)

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    Joe I'm sending you a PM shortly.

    Marvin Shilmer posted Thu, 21 Jun 2012 23:14:00 GMT(6/21/2012)

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    That’s a fine offer. Your training and experience would no doubt be useful toward cracking into the register of information complied and meticulously maintained within the bowel of Watchtower’s Service Department.

    Sooner or later that database will come out. If Watchtower is smart it’ll stage the event itself. Otherwise the legacy will be unsurvivable for the religion.

    What you write about asking the right question the right way is important. This is one reason for the recent article published at my web site about the same Allen Shuster you cite. (Shuster’s Tale

    The man took an oath to tell the truth and, in my opinion, shamelessly lied.

    Marvin Shilmer

    soft+gentle posted Fri, 22 Jun 2012 05:17:00 GMT(6/22/2012)

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    Joe that is a very kind and generous offer.

    Chemical Emotions posted Fri, 22 Jun 2012 05:48:00 GMT(6/22/2012)

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    mind blown posted Fri, 22 Jun 2012 06:44:00 GMT(6/22/2012)

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    Joe sent you more info in PM.


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