Watch Tower Society Facing Criminal Charges and Indictment in Australia

kjw53, if the JWs are true ministers appointed by God then why are they not abiding by the requirements of the law in Australia to obtain a WWC certificate?

@Aussie Oz and @kjw53

True. I can see that happening too. But that's why I mention how the WTS itself defines the role of the R&F JW - that at baptism, each becomes an ordained minister in the religion, performing a vital function/role/service/vocation of the religion. Again, I'm not doubting that the WTS could put on a double face, so-to-speak. I'm just wondering how far someone could push it.

In the course of my JW lifetime, I've been a part of four different congregations, and I've seen parents allow children to go out in service with other car groups (separated from the parentss) on a Saturday morning, even if the child was six, seven years old. Would this not be counted as working with children within the bounds of religion's vocation? I'm sure it happens in every congregation. 

kjw53 wrote:

*shrugs* - OK. I'll agree to that. But in terms of this Australian law, I think how the WTS defines "ordained minister" and how the term is applied by the WTS to its members matters more.

MeanMrMustard

@jwfacts:

You wrote:

MMM - I highly doubt this would be extended to all JW Ministers, despite the Watchtower using that to its advantage when it can, such as getting out of military service. It will most likely only be applied to Elders. In the child abuse cases that the Watchtower has lost in the past, the cases have specifially been about abuse from elders. 

Surely it would have to apply to ministerial servants too. In the congregations that I've attended, ministeral servants were much more active with the children than the elders were. They were more personable, a bit younger, and most had kids of their own. They were used in matters of discipline as well (when it involved a counseling-like offense, not necessarily a judical committee level offense).

MeanMrMustard

Joe and Barbara:  Thank you for sharing.  I, like many, appreciate what you do.  Keep up the good work!

I have heard of some elders being "appointed" as the one to look after "orphans and widows" etc. I would assume this is work relevant to 'pastoral care' by other church ministers. Not sure about having a brother/sister come to the house for a bible study though - guess this could be termed a private arrangement.  From my knowledge, this is where a lot of the trouble happened/s. Perhaps this is in some way connected to the book study being discontinued - just a guess.

Listener-- The facts are these-- The Jw,s have no sunday schools or the such-- The words you read about that is from an apostate who is trying to get them in court, but it has allready been thrown out once-check your facts-there isnt one credible source behind those words written that you all presume are true.

@kjw53

No, we don't all presume that what Steven Unthank says is true.

There are parts of his submission (have you read all 644 odd pages?) that we can not verify, things and events that only he was privy to. That information we can't take as 'gospel' just because he is againts the WT.

Much of it is plausable because of the documented history of child abuse that exists globally among JWs. But a claim of does not make true, any more than a claim of makes for untrue.

That is for a Judge to decide at the end of the day.

Nobody has to agree with the sources used other than Steven and a Judge either.

The act clearly states:

9 What is child-related work?

I went to Steven Unthank's blog, www.jwnews.net, a few minutes ago and learned quite a bit more about his cause. Among other things, I learned that there is no fee to get a back-ground check for religious volunteers. The WWC website said there was a fee for applicants, but when I read the information on that website a few days ago, I didn't see that the fee didn't apply to religions.

It was interesting to read on Mr. Unthank's blog his feelings about what he read on this thread about his criminal charges against Watch Tower. I took the  following information that he posted on April 6th from his blog:

Thank you to everyone that has provided feedback and constructive (and at times "destructive") criticism. This has really helped me to sort through what I should and should not publish, or link to, on this webpage. Again, I really sincerely thank you. :) You are welcome at my place for steak and beers. I have often been asked "who are you"? Honestly, I do not know how to properly answer this. My life has been too complex, too complicated, too horrific. Despite this...I love my God, I love my family, I love my religion, I love my country, and I love my Bible. I personally believe that "by every kind of toil there comes to be an advantage". The advantage may not be mine, but I hope it will be yours. My mother, a Presbyterian, recently told me: "You're my son and I love you. You are what the Watch Tower Society forced and made you to be, just to survive, just to defend yourself and our family. What they did to you was wrong. What they did to your brother was wrong. What they did to our family was wrong. What they are still doing to us and to all the children is wrong. If they were really from God then they would not have done this. They should be held accountable for everything." Mum is right. Mothers are always right. In February 2007, Watch Tower Society lawyer, Elder Ivan E. Novian, stood up on the podium inside the Skye church of Jehovah's Witnesses and publicly announced: "If anyone goes up against [the Watch Tower Society] with a view to seeking justice, even if you have actually been wronged, then you can expect to be wiped out and left penniless." My family was present in the audience. Our church elders informed us that the statement was directed at our family. Why? We were wronged. We were seeking justice. I am now penniless...but I have not been wiped out. What the Watch Tower Society did to my family is discussed in pages 378 to 424 of the Brief of Evidence document [see download link below]. If they were and are willing to do this to my family then they are also willing do this to you and your family. If you are interested in my childhood, then this is discussed on pages 349 to 361. To read these sets of pages is to understand who I am and why I am scarred and scared. - Steven Unthank (6 April 2011)

Thank you Barbara for all you and Joe do. I'm in Austarlia and will be watching carefully.

Etna

Hi steven

you need to address "child related work" and how Jehovahs witnesses have instituted formal arrangements for their minsters to engage in child related work. The fact that all jehovahs witnesses are defined as ministers clouds this issue and can work against you.  It is perhaps more important to focus on the heiarchical arrangment that JWs have in place - ie that elders, overseers and ministerial servants fulfill the definition of how the term "Minister" is perceived in other religions.   

And then I think it is important to define how the WTS has formal arrangements in place in which ministers are required to come into contact with children.  Imo the door to door work is a formal arrangment instituted by the WTS.  This is not something that a witness engages in informally and privately. The door to door work is a formal requirement of all baptized members including children and teenagers.  There are strict rules that the door to door activity be done in two's so you have an adult working with a child very often. If parents are sick or unable to go out in the ministry their baptized children are expected to go out on their own and work with another adult.  Baptized male teens formally lead groups in the ministry. 

perhaps you have already worked out a definition of WTS formal arrangements for the ministry so I apologise if I am going over stuff you have already resolved. 

Hello Steven Unthank

If you are reading this forum...as Barbara indicated...

Is there a link or a record somehow of the comment:

In February 2007, Watch Tower Society lawyer, Elder Ivan E. Novian, stood up on the podium inside the Skye church of Jehovah's Witnesses and publicly announced: "If anyone goes up against [the Watch Tower Society] with a view to seeking justice, even if you have actually been wronged, then you can expect to be wiped out and left penniless."

That can be verified, documented fact that even the WT cannot dispute it ever said?

Thankyou ( i would expect that you may wish to pass information on via a 3rd party to protect your online identity)

oz

Good job on this - I suggest other aussies will send emails and letters asking why this law is not being enforced on a group with know peado tendancies.

book marked

@AndersonInfo:

You wrote:

I went to Steven Unthank's blog, www.jwnews.net, a few minutes ago and learned quite a bit more about his cause. Among other things, I learned that there is no fee to get a back-ground check for religious volunteers. The WWC website said there was a fee for applicants, but when I read the information on that website a few days ago, I didn't see that the fee didn't apply to religions.

Wow, so that changes some things. Serveral posters (including me) have wondered what the motivation might be for not complying with the law. If the above statement is true, then its NOT money. It's not a political issue either (since getting one of these licenses is no different than licensing yourself to drive a car). So I am really wondering if the WTS knows they have a substantial number of active, serving elders in Austrailia who have some history in child molestation. Or even a good number of former elders, but still active congregation members that have child molestation issues in the past...

MeanMrMustard

Thank you for the information, I would be really interested to know whether they may face a similar situation in the UK.

Since last year it is a criminal offence to employ somebody - including doing unpaid voluntary work - who work with children and vulnerable adults frequently or intensively until they have registered with a new agency known as the Independent Safeguarding Authority (ISA).

An elder who pays a shepherding visit to an elderly witness or regularly drives them to meetings etc may be breaking the law unless they are registered. Their employers are also criminally liable to prosecution.

As a sports coach this has significant implications for what I do and my responsibiliites regarding employing new coaching staff. I am certain the congregations in the UK are flouting the law

I say, let's wait and see.  I cannot see how it would be bad for the Watchtower to comply with that requirement.  The purpose is to protect children.  Who disagrees with that idea?  If anyone disagrees, why?

Aussie-oz--- Pedophiles enter every religion on the earth, its an easy prey for people like that-they can pretend all they want how they want to serve God. But the fact remains that all of you are targeting the JW,s when they exist in every religion. Goes to show my words are truth--Mortal man cannot read anothers true heart- nor has he ever seen the book of life-thus mortal man cannot tell another that he is saved. Yet in every trinity religion on the earth the teachers are elevating themselves into Gods position by telling all that they are saved. Woe to those doing that. now back to topic--from what i have read on this matter-it has allready entered court once and was thrown out.