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Are all sexual predators pedophiles?

    F Lady Lee posted Fri, 08 Oct 2010 16:04:00 GMT(10/8/2010)

    Post 14906 of 14228
    Joined 6/29/2001

    I am against the use of the term "pedophile" as it is used within the ex-JW community. Here is why:

    The Definition of PEDOPHILIA by Merriam-Webster is :

    sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object

    While this does apply to many sexual perpetrators it does not by any means apply to all. Some facts:

    • Most perpetrators are known to their victim.
    • A great proportion of them are married and may even have their own children
    • A great many have sexual relationships that are with people who are not children (wives, girlfriends, other men and women)
    • Most sexual abuse is not about the sex. It is about the power and control just as it is with rape

    Pedophiles will seek out children. They rarely have sexual relationships with adults. Their sexual fantasies are about children. They don't see other adults as sexually attractive. While some may be married the sexual relationship is stunted and the marriage may serve more as a blind to hide behind or help them gain access to children.

    A father who is sexually abusing his children isn't necessarily a pedophile. He is most likely taking advantage of what is in front of him and easily accessible and very easily controlled. Many of the men who are married seem to think that by having sex with a child, their child, they are not committing adultery. They aren't trying to satisfy their sexual desire for a child. They are trying to satisfy their need for sex, power and control.

    Bill Bowen started using the term to apply to men who sexually abused children within the JWs. Since then everyone has jumped on this bandwagon without any real understanding of the various medical or legal definitions of the terms.

    In spite of having had numerous abusers, some strangers, some neighbors and most people who lived in the same house with me, I think few were actual pedophiles. The man in the park and another who tried to lure me into his car and possibly one other were deliberately targeting children. I suspect they were true pedophiles. That is 3 out of 13 (yes victims often have many abusers target them. They are vulnerable and abusers can see it)

    Of the other 10

    • 2 were minors who were most likely going to grow up to be rapists if they weren't stopped although neither got that far with me
    • 2 were old men who could no longer perform but they still enjoyed being touched - one was married they other not. Both were fathers and grandfathers
    • another was clearly interested in women with breasts (which I didn't have at the time) and the abuse was not physical - he probably did get a charge out of my having to listen to what he would do with a woman with breasts though
    • 3 were family members who were still minors at the time but together they presented a real danger
    • the last 2 were my father and step father who were most likely sex addicts, taking it wherever they got a chance regardless of who their victim was. My step-father considered himself a real Rhett Butler Casanova-type. My father was a controller who took without regard for anyone. My step-father thought he was seducing us (my 13-yr old aunt and I)

    In this list as you can see few restricted their attentions to children.

    All people who sexually abuse children are sexual perpetrators (social or psychological term) or poffenders (the legal term). But not all are pedophiles. Pedophiles are just a small proportion of all sexual predators.

    In the JW community "Brother" X who has never married and seems to prefer hanging around kids might be the pedophile. "Brother" Y or Elder who may or may not be married, and may has kids and is caught sexually abusing one of them may not be a pedophile at all. He may simply be making the most of any opportunity he has to satify his need for control and power over someone who has few if any defenses.

    M donny posted Fri, 08 Oct 2010 16:10:00 GMT(10/8/2010)

    Post 1082 of 1500
    Joined 5/4/2005

    Pedophile reflects a desire for children of pre-puberty. Too often you hear the term applied to a man or woman who is having a relation ship with a minor adult (teenager). Those people are sexual predators, not pedophiles.

    minimus posted Fri, 08 Oct 2010 16:12:00 GMT(10/8/2010)

    Post 32850 of 36135
    Joined 7/3/2002

    no

    miseryloveselders posted Fri, 08 Oct 2010 16:30:00 GMT(10/8/2010)

    Post 1240 of 2662
    Joined 8/31/2009

    No disrespect to anyone in this thread or elsewhere, but is it possible you guys are looking too far into this? What difference does it make if you label these folks as Chesters, Pedophiles, Rapos, or Sexual Predators?

    minimus posted Fri, 08 Oct 2010 16:35:00 GMT(10/8/2010)

    Post 32853 of 36135
    Joined 7/3/2002

    Were you a magnet, Lee?

    oldlightnewshite posted Fri, 08 Oct 2010 16:36:00 GMT(10/8/2010)

    Post 43 of 403
    Joined 10/2/2010

    Interesting post. I'm guilty of lumping them all together. I've had a LOT of experience with this kind of thing, although never being abused myself. Many of my friends have been. You make an interesting point about fathers who just reach for the nearest, most convenient outlet. My friends were all raped by their fathers/mothers/uncles. I always end up using the word predator when I discuss the subject with anyone. I suppose the urge is the same as rape...just being in control, the feeling of power. By your definition I would say definitely 4 of the 5 people I know in the WT religion were raped by Pedophiles, in that the offender either had access to sex within marriage but preferred a pre-teen, or the abuse was man-on-boy when the man was married, and the abuse lasted a while. At least one was attacked by a known person on the sex offenders' register. Interestingly, two of the offenders were JWs, one of whom is still a serving elder and has never been brought to book for his crime either by a judicial committee, or by prison sentence.

    In some cases, where the children have been so-called 'jail-bait', maybe fully developed at the age of 14-16, it's definitely a grey area whether the offender is a pedophile. Anybody who touches a pree-teen needs their head examining. (by means of autopsy after they've been fried in the chair.)

    minimus posted Fri, 08 Oct 2010 16:36:00 GMT(10/8/2010)

    Post 32854 of 36135
    Joined 7/3/2002

    My understanding is that if a father sexually abused his kids, the law doesn't care if the reason is simply control, he is considered a pedophile. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Dark Side posted Fri, 08 Oct 2010 16:50:00 GMT(10/8/2010)

    Post 1450 of 1350
    Joined 8/11/2005

    Some of your questions are absolutely stupid, minimus.

    minimus posted Fri, 08 Oct 2010 16:54:00 GMT(10/8/2010)

    Post 32856 of 36135
    Joined 7/3/2002

    DS, what's that about?? Your comment here fits that description.

    F blondie posted Fri, 08 Oct 2010 17:10:00 GMT(10/8/2010)

    Post 30808 of 37119
    Joined 5/28/2001

    I worked with the sexual offender registry and rapists are considered sexual predators even if their victims are adults.

    F Lady Lee posted Fri, 08 Oct 2010 17:19:00 GMT(10/8/2010)

    Post 14907 of 14228
    Joined 6/29/2001

    miseryloveselders

    is it possible you guys are looking too far into this? What difference does it make if you label these folks as Chesters, Pedophiles, Rapos, or Sexual Predators?

    Possibly. But too often the term pedophile has come to mean the weirdo lurking in dark places - a sleezy character. We need to clarify the definitions to help victims and survivors free themselves of the shame they often feel. Men who do go after children often choose careers that will put them in cxlose proximity to children and in a manner that gives them a degree of authority over them - priests, teachers, coaches, "brothers". Pedophiles find most of their victims because they are in a role that allows parents to willingly hand their kids over to them because of their positions of supposed trust and authority. And this is what they rely on. The guy in the park or trying to pick up kids in his car are not the usual pedophiles. The respectable-looking ones are the ones we rerally need to watch out for and warn our kids about.

    Although my father and step-father both sexually abused children, their main attraction wasn't too children. My father went after the 25 yr old hookers just as avidly as he went after me. Neither of these two cared about age.

    F aSphereisnotaCircle posted Fri, 08 Oct 2010 17:25:00 GMT(10/8/2010)

    Post 1428 of 1822
    Joined 6/13/2006

    Were you a magnet, Lee?

    I don't think magnet is an accurate term. i think its more a of a situation that LL had the great misfortune to be born into a highly dysfunctional environment. And of course, the youngest, smallest, most vulnerable are the ones that are going to get victimized.

    You question insinuates that LL was in a normal environment and somehow attracted or drew that sort of attention to herself, and so therefore she would be the source of the problem…………I bet you didn’t mean that.

    minimus posted Fri, 08 Oct 2010 17:27:00 GMT(10/8/2010)

    Post 32859 of 36135
    Joined 7/3/2002

    No I didn't Lee. I just am amazed by what you wrote! It's equally amazing that you are in the situation you are in today where you can help others who have gone through what you have endured.

    Dark Side posted Fri, 08 Oct 2010 17:30:00 GMT(10/8/2010)

    Post 1452 of 1350
    Joined 8/11/2005

    DS, what's that about?? Your comment here fits that description.

    Are all sexual predators pedophiles?

    Are all rapists pedophiles? No, you moron

    Your idiotic question is idiotic

    minimus posted Fri, 08 Oct 2010 17:38:00 GMT(10/8/2010)

    Post 32860 of 36135
    Joined 7/3/2002

    Dark Side, I really don't know what you're talking about but I'll tell you, you sound like an angry person. Maybe this forum gives you a chance to try to verbally beat people up? I'm used to cowards like you. You're the moron and idiot. Go to New Orleans, willya?

    F aSphereisnotaCircle posted Fri, 08 Oct 2010 17:39:00 GMT(10/8/2010)

    Post 1429 of 1822
    Joined 6/13/2006

    Minimus, children get victimized when thay are not protected, period.

    Guess what would happen if you didn't protect your kids? All sorts of awful stuff.

    I was not protected either, and though the leval of abuse that I went though does not seem to be near the scale of what LL lived though, I can easily top her number of abusers, if I count everyone who touched me in a sexual manner or exposed themselves to me before I was even a teenager.

    It's not about what kind of person the kid is, it's about whether that kid is protected or not.

    minimus posted Fri, 08 Oct 2010 17:41:00 GMT(10/8/2010)

    Post 32861 of 36135
    Joined 7/3/2002

    You are obviously correct! But certainly not all children who are not 'protected" get sexually abused.

    F Lady Lee posted Fri, 08 Oct 2010 17:47:00 GMT(10/8/2010)

    Post 14908 of 14228
    Joined 6/29/2001

    Mini

    Were you a magnet, Lee?

    I was Min and no that isn't a stupid question at all. It is actually quite a good one considering how many victims have multiple abusers.

    When we teach children they have to kiss Uncle Bill goodnight when he comes to visit or that they should go sit on Grandpa's knee or give "sister" X a hug before she leaves and we ignore the child's discomfort we are teaching them that their feelings don't matter, that hurting someone else's feelings is a bad thing. But some kids already know that sitting on that lap means a hand is slipped up where it shouldn't be or that that hug means a hand will grab just a bit too tightly where it shouldn't be. Maybe all they know so far is that it doesn't feel good.

    If we don't teach children that they can just wave and smile across the room or offer an handshake then we are setting them up for a potential abuser.

    I was a magnet because of a few important factors

    • I was taught you never ever disobeyed an adult so you sat on that knee feeling an erection under me or the hand sliding up under my skirt
    • I was taught to do what I was told whether I liked it or not
    • I was taught that when it came to the word of an adult and a child the child would always be branded the liar
    • Because I didn't get the love and affection I needed at home I became vulnerable when I tried to find it elsewhere - sadly predators saw that as a welcome invitation

    I was sexually abused as a child from the age of 8 to 13 when I went into foster care (except for the 2 incidents with the first 2 on my list in the first post who were both minors and copping a feel). I was far safer with strangers than in my family. I was taught to be a victim and to shut up about it. And predators can spot a victim with ease.

    I was actually surprised to find out how many other people were victims of multiple abusers throughout their childhoods. Too often mom kept getting involved with men who also abused children. My mother was sexually abused by her step-father. She turned around and married 3 men who sexually abused children while they were in relationships where they were getting plenty of sex from their wives. So you can't even say they weren't getting any so turned to children.

    Later on I was sexually abused as an adult by 2 strangers, raped by someone I knew and sexually abused by my JW-elder husband over the 15 years of our marriage. When I finally learned that I had a right to say NO the abuse stopped. The last straw for me was when a guy exposed himself to me in the subway/metro. I walked away from him and outside only to see a police car which I went directly to and reported the guy. The guy disappeared back into the metro when he saw me talking to the police. The police and I went down after him thinking he would be long gone but saw him on his way back up. They nailed him. He begged and pleaded for me not to place charges which I refused.

    For me there was a huge feeling of empowerment to report this guy. We were standing on the street and they guy is yelling he is sorry. A crowd is gathering and all I can think in "Never Again"

    It has been 25 years since then and not 1 incident. To me that speaks volumes

    F aSphereisnotaCircle posted Fri, 08 Oct 2010 17:54:00 GMT(10/8/2010)

    Post 1430 of 1822
    Joined 6/13/2006

    But certainly not all children who are not 'protected" get sexually abused.

    Well no, not everyone, I'm sure some would get out OK.

    But tell me, if you leave your 8 year old daughter alone with a bunch of strangers on a regular basis, do you think she has a good chance of growing up without ever being taken advantage of?

    And if people knew that you didn't look after your daughter and they saw other people take advantage of her, don't you thingk that would bring all the pervs out of the woodwork?

    By neglecting her you make her an easy target, and that snowballs into more and more abuse.

    minimus posted Fri, 08 Oct 2010 17:54:00 GMT(10/8/2010)

    Post 32862 of 36135
    Joined 7/3/2002

    It is sad to see how there are so many pieces of crap out there!

    When your own parent has been abused, you haven't got a chance. Well, actually that isn't true. Lee, you were abused but I'm sure you would never think of harming a child. It's ironic how a person can either follow in the same footsteps as an abuser or do the complete opposite.

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