JWs in world politics: Jehovah's Witnesses Are "Politically" Neutral - NOT

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    M Dogpatch posted Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:20:00 GMT(12/5/2006)

    Post 1653 of 3989
    Joined 12/26/2000

    Are You Sure Jehovah's Witnesses Are "Politically" Neutral?

    Human Dimension Implementation Meeting

    The ODIHR organizes an annual meeting in Warsaw to review the implementation of a broad range of OSCE human dimension commitments, including in the areas of human rights and fundamental freedoms, elections, the promotion of tolerance, use of the death penalty, and the rights of national minorities.

    The Human Dimension Implementation Meeting (HDIM) lasts 10 working days and is attended by representatives of OSCE participating States, NGOs, and international organizations and institutions.

    alt

    The opening session of the Human Dimension Implementation Meeting, Warsaw, 19 September 2005. (OSCE)

    http://www.osce.org/odihr/16533.html

    So, you say that Jehovah's Witnesses aren't "political" or take any part in the affairs of the world? Then take a look at some of these pictures! How many "flags" do you see in the picture above? This is an example of the place and people the Watchtower representatives will be rubbing shoulders with! Click here:

    http://www.osce.org/publications/odihr/2006/09/20658_674_en.pdf

    How many times do you see the word "democratic" on this page?

    http://www.osce.org/odihr/13406.html

    And what about this one?

    http://www.osce.org/odihr/13421.html

    Do these look like Watchtower and Awake magazines? Or a "political" brochure?

    alt

    ODIHR Director Christian Strohal (left) and Bruce George, President Emeritus of the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly, at a news conference in Vienna, 21 April 2005. (OSCE/Alex Nitzsche)

    http://www.osce.org/odihr/13405.html

    2006 OSCE Human Dimension Implementation Meeting!

    Final List Of Participants---(see page 2 of pdf listed below)

    OSCE Delegations/Partners For Co-Operation!---(see page 3 of pdf listed below)

    Now let us see who we have here?

    alt

    And what about here?

    alt

    And one more time here? alt Click on the link provided below and scroll down to numbers 102, 103, 248, and 314 in the blue boxes to the left of the organization's name. http://www.osce.org/documents/odihr/2006/10/21654_en.pdf What does the Watchtower say about "political" involvement? Watchtower-1985-March-1st-pg.13-pr.5 "False religion’s involvement in the affairs of the political nations will lead ultimately to her own devastation." alt So what part of the word HYPOCRISY does the Watchtower not understand? thanks to Towerwatcher! posted by Randy Net Soup! http://www.freeminds.org

    M daystar posted Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:44:00 GMT(12/5/2006)

    Post 4393 of 4777
    Joined 6/22/2005

    Zing! So much for remaining "no part of this world".

    M daniel-p posted Tue, 05 Dec 2006 17:54:00 GMT(12/5/2006)

    Post 1338 of 4541
    Joined 10/22/2005

    And you know they're just doing it to make themselves look good to those european countries because they have had a rough time gaining legitimacy.

    F fullofdoubtnow posted Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:05:00 GMT(12/5/2006)

    Post 5057 of 5925
    Joined 10/24/2005

    Good find Randy.

    The wts have been involved in these type of events before, there was one in Cordoba, Spain they were represented at. They just don't tell their members about them, and will no doubt be thinking of their excuse now their involvement has come to light, just in case any jw asks.

    OUTLAW posted Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:13:00 GMT(12/5/2006)

    Post 4919 of 24194
    Joined 10/11/2001

    One more nail in the WBT$ coffin..Unlikely many JW`s will hear about it..Those who do,won`t care..It only makes a difference when it`s made public..Good one Randy...OUTLAW

    M Doubting Bro posted Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:21:00 GMT(12/5/2006)

    Post 69 of 1592
    Joined 2/22/2006

    I wish I could say I'm suprised but I'm not. I noticed that not only are they going to their conferences (with folks that want to work through the politicial process even though the big A is "very, very close") but did you notice that Mr. Gillet is the CHAIRMAN of the Religious Freedom Subcommittee?? And Mr. Toffoli is also a member of that Subcommittee.

    I can tell you that if a r&f were that involved with a political action group or lobbying group, they would be forced to resign or be df'ed.

    Wow, what a hypocritical organization. I know their excuse would be that they are just working to "legally defend & establish the good news". But, I don't seem to recall the scripture where Paul or the other apostles joined lobbying groups to try to convince the Roman Emperor to chill out with the persecution or to give Christians the right to legally worship. They use the scripture about legally defending the truth yet Paul was referring to being hauled in front of various governmental bodies, not working through them to affect change. At least, that's what the WTS teaches. I guess its the case of do as I say, not as I do.

    Did they not think they would get caught? Or has the fact that they've been able to surpress the UN NGO thing so well (I'll bet 95% of JWs have no idea), that they've become brazen? It's probably because they simply don't care. They'll df anyone who says anything about it just like the NGO deal.

    On the plus side, it sure makes it easier for me to push myself away from this mess!

    F restrangled posted Tue, 05 Dec 2006 18:30:00 GMT(12/5/2006)

    Post 848 of 6515
    Joined 6/10/2006

    Dogpatch,]

    As a sideline to your find, on the watchtower.org website I found 2 pages devoted to the problems of children--solved which was basically a plug for the United Nations and Unicef. taken from the December 8th, 2000, Awake. In addition there is an entire page listing Unicef's childrens rights they are trying to implement around the world.

    I find this extremely ironic since JW's are discouraged from giving to any charity. The meaning of "Being no part of this world" seems to fluctuate at any given moment. I wonder how many JW's would feel seeing what you found, but since they are told not to search on the internet, most will never know.

    r.

    M MacHislopp posted Tue, 05 Dec 2006 20:03:00 GMT(12/5/2006)

    Post 1645 of 1694
    Joined 2/27/2001

    Hello Dogpatch,

    just to tell you great...great, great indeed.

    There are no more words to describe the WTBS Inc.

    as one of great hypocrite organization. It goes to

    the same degree as the ONU affair.

    By the way Marcel Gilet has been for years, member

    of the Belgian Bethel.

    I'll take every single page , including the links , save it

    and make a booklet to give to some friends... in Europe

    and Australia, and also in India.

    Thanks again,

    JC MacHislopp

    M Dogpatch posted Tue, 05 Dec 2006 20:05:00 GMT(12/5/2006)

    Post 1655 of 3989
    Joined 12/26/2000

    Thanks for the tip Restrangled, and hi to all of you!

    Randy

    M GermanXJW posted Tue, 05 Dec 2006 20:09:00 GMT(12/5/2006)

    Post 1837 of 2478
    Joined 8/5/2001

    Good to have all those E-Mail-Adresses...

    JWFreak posted Tue, 05 Dec 2006 20:11:00 GMT(12/5/2006)

    Post 25 of 135
    Joined 9/17/2006

    as an elder waiting for my deletion announcement this week....I am really shocked!!!

    I mean I know that things are bad.....really shocked

    Thanks Dogpatch

    BTW a quick Hi to DB

    JWFreak

    M.J. posted Tue, 05 Dec 2006 20:20:00 GMT(12/5/2006)

    Post 2204 of 3325
    Joined 6/11/2003

    I like what Narkissos posted a the thread about the WTS involvement with cesnur:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/121476/2147246/post.ashx#2147246

    Imo what most JWs call "politics" is actually the institutional structure and working of democracy. After all, they hardly think of Bible characters such as Joseph, Mordecai or the kings of Israel as "politicians," do they?

    In representative democracy there are several ways to influence the legislative process. One is institutional (the election of representatives with a specific, although not mandatory, program). The other is lobbying, which may imply both working on public opinion (especially through the media) and secretly pressuring the decision-makers, unbeknownst to the mass of the voters and taxpayers. The latter is the least "democratic" and, interestingly, the least objectionable to the Watchtower.

    The very fact that the WT representatives keep this kind of action secret and duck away as soon as it is revealed is telling. Realpolitik is to be screened away from the candid average publisher who really believes that the entire political system and religious organisations are Satan's realm, and that Jehovah will defend his people provided they stay clean from this world.

    M Rabbit posted Tue, 05 Dec 2006 20:21:00 GMT(12/5/2006)

    Post 1842 of 2988
    Joined 1/8/2004

    My, my, my...apparently they "rub elbows" with not only governments, NGO's , PAC's, but, many other religious groups, too. I noticed Muslim, Mormon, Catholic and many, many others.

    Personally, I think they are doing a good thing by reaching out and embracing the real world.

    Of course there is that pesky little problem of, ummmm...hypocrisy ?

    Btw, did anyone notice all the telephone #'s, addresses, names and e-mail addressesof our former taskmasters...that just fell into the hands of the largest Ex-JW discussion board ? And Wow ! They came from a worldly org, that our former org belongs to ! Hmmm...I wonder. I have this idea forming...now it's on the tip of my tongue...

    See ?

    Rabbit

    bobld posted Tue, 05 Dec 2006 21:41:00 GMT(12/5/2006)

    Post 4 of 941
    Joined 11/2/2006

    Very good post.They want democracy and freedom of speech only for

    the (Governing body, that is the Hilter type).They want the R&F to be neutral.

    If the R&F speak up they are (killed) Disfellowshipped.

    bobld

    F Momofmany posted Wed, 06 Dec 2006 04:30:00 GMT(12/6/2006)

    Post 464 of 472
    Joined 10/1/2003

    I know I shouldn't be, but I was surprised. Thanks for posting this.

    TheOldHippie posted Wed, 06 Dec 2006 06:23:00 GMT(12/6/2006)

    Post 1147 of 2370
    Joined 1/31/2001

    Yeah, yeah, chop my head off - but as I've sais before, I don't get the fuzz over this. This is no political establishment, these are not people governing nations or making laws, discussing taxes or foreign affairs or how much to use on warfare or whatever. This is discussing religious freedom, standing up for one's organization, exchanging views, it's sort of an extended publishing/door-to-door work. Soem of you guys have stood up in your classrooms and defended your JW faith, writing essays, and pupils today are given rewards for essays, hold talks in fron of the whole school etc. The Stand Firm exhibition has toured large parts of the world. Here they gather to discuss, and JW representatives try to give their faith as much elbow room as possible and to clear up misunderstandings, and to knit contacts in countries where they are repressed as France and Belgium and Austria. I don't get it, why the fuzz?

    M truthsetsonefree posted Wed, 06 Dec 2006 06:45:00 GMT(12/6/2006)

    Post 334 of 1706
    Joined 7/16/2005

    "This is no political establishment, these are not people governing nations or making laws, discussing taxes or foreign affairs or how much to use on warfare or whatever. This is discussing religious freedom, standing up for one's organization, exchanging views, it's sort of an extended publishing/door-to-door work. Soem of you guys have stood up in your classrooms and defended your JW faith, writing essays, and pupils today are given rewards for essays, hold talks in fron of the whole school etc. The Stand Firm exhibition has toured large parts of the world. Here they gather to discuss, and JW representatives try to give their faith as much elbow room as possible and to clear up misunderstandings, and to knit contacts in countries where they are repressed as France and Belgium and Austria."

    I can understand that. (Sorry Firefox doesn't do quote boxes)I used to wonder this myself. The problem is that they are using so-called worldly tactics rather than waiting on Jehovah. Its the same kind of double standard Ray Franz spoke about in ISOCF with doctors and the blood issue. Can you imagine them telling regular publishers that they can serve on union boards or as shop stewards? Or sanction them going to seminars and conferences to network with others in their fields? Even when they don't criticize it, they scare the s**t out of you by warning you of all of the terrible dangers involved. They make it sound like everyone who attends these things are making out in the halls and committing adultery behind their spouses backs.

    tsof

    M darth frosty posted Wed, 06 Dec 2006 07:40:00 GMT(12/6/2006)

    Post 425 of 3858
    Joined 11/28/2005

    C'mon now. They were led to believe that this was a meeting to ensure that the district conventions could be organized. This is just another attempt by satan to make the WTBT$ look bad (as if they dont do a good enough job of it on their own.)

    Great find. I love this board. Every time I come here, I find more and more validation of why I left that cult (as if I needed any more.)

    M GermanXJW posted Wed, 06 Dec 2006 08:14:00 GMT(12/6/2006)

    Post 1838 of 2478
    Joined 8/5/2001

    I am pretty sure the OSCE has quite large a library.

    Atlantis posted Wed, 06 Dec 2006 11:49:00 GMT(12/6/2006)

    Post 792 of 3410
    Joined 11/12/2004

    What are some of the main "goals" of this meeting?

    http://www.usosce.rpo.at/HDIM/hdim2006.html

    2006 OSCE Human Dimension Implementation Meeting (HDIM)

    alt The Human Dimension Implementation Meeting (HDIM) is the OSCE's most important human rights event of the year. At this conference representatives of governments and civil society from the 56 participating States reviewed the implementation of the existing commitments and the procedures and mechanisms for monitoring and enhancing compliance with these commitments.

    The 2006 OSCE HDIM took place in Warsaw, Poland, from October 2-13, 2006. At the top of this year's agenda were anti-trafficking and non-discrimination issues. Other special topics for discussion included access to justice and promotion of tolerance, and mutual respect and understanding.

    U.S. goals for this conference include:
    • To demonstrate U.S. commitment to human rights and democracy, and to show support for NGOs working in these fields.
    To generate political will among OSCE participating States for implementing OSCE commitments in the Human Dimension.
    • To exchange views on Human Dimension topics with other delegations and NGOs.
    To raise the OSCE´s public profile as an organization tackling current threats to stability and human dignity and to raise awareness of the relevance of the Human Dimension within the organization.

    So the main "goals" are to:

    (1) Promote human rights and DEMOCRACY

    (2) To grenerate POLITICAL will

    (3) To RAISE the OSCE's PROFILE

    Now do you see any words in those "goals" that even remotely mention God? Jesus Christ? The Holy Spirit?

    It is all POLITICS and participating in GLORIFYING organizations of the world! In-other-words, more SPIRITUAL FORNICATION!

    Cheers! Atlantis-

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