The statue in Daniel

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    M z posted Thu, 05 May 2005 12:51:00 GMT(5/5/2005)

    Post 152 of 1074
    Joined 7/21/2004

    I had in the past two years allot of arguments with my JW friend .last night we talk about the UN thing as the Wild Beast and he said that is not true the media just say so. as we go on arguing according to the WT prophase is being fulfill as in the bible book of Daniel ?The Seven Empire? and the last one now is the Anglo American Empire And in the past only 6 world power the world had seen so far and now we witness the last one Anglo American. He said as in the book of Daniel the statue made of 7 different metals and the bottom is clay as Babylon and so on. I told him Daniel was talking about past empire not the one will come and in the past the world seen more than 7 world power.

    And now he is going to prove me wrong and will show me history I said ok np but where are you going to look for? If you going to the WT info no thx but world info go for it
    This dabs will not listen to no one but the F%% WT .so can some one give me info about it?

    M AlmostAtheist posted Thu, 05 May 2005 13:06:00 GMT(5/5/2005)

    Post 1333 of 5307
    Joined 8/26/2004

    How hard could it be to find 6 (or 8, or 15) past world powers? It's like saying, "Name the great 6 animals." You can name 6, of course, but who's to say which ones I meant?

    The Watchtower can pretty much apply the scripture to anything they want, what can you say to "prove" them wrong. No chance.

    Did your friend not believe that the Watchtower was ever an associated NGO with the UN? If he doesn't believe it, have him call the Watchtower and ask. They'll admit it, but of course they'll downplay it. But they will admit it. 718-560-5000

    Dave

    M z posted Thu, 05 May 2005 13:14:00 GMT(5/5/2005)

    Post 153 of 1074
    Joined 7/21/2004

    Did your friend not believe that the Watchtower was ever an associated NGO with the UN? If he doesn't believe it, have him call the Watchtower and ask. They'll admit it, but of course they'll downplay it. But they will admit it. 718-560-5000

    Thx for your reply I already did. today his po is visiting the KH I ask him to ask the po but his answer was no need I know this is not true

    Leolaia posted Thu, 05 May 2005 15:15:00 GMT(5/5/2005)

    Post 4046 of 16234
    Joined 9/1/2002

    The signifiers (symbols, etc.) in Daniel have been interpreted and reinterpreted over the years to refer to a vast array of different signifieds, to the detriment of the original logic of the book.

    The statue dream incorporates the four kingdoms motif common in the Hellenistic era, and the original scheme of the book was: gold = Babylon, silver = Media, bronze = Persia, iron = Greece, divided iron/clay = the divided kingdom of the Seleucids and Ptolemies. Note especially how ch. 11 describes how Alexander the Great's kingdom (Greece) will be uprooted and given to others, split among his four generals and split into two kingdoms (the king of the north = Seleucids, the king of the south = Ptolemies), and the two kingdoms will attempt but fail to unify. The last king of the north (= little horn, =stern-faced king, etc.) is Antiochus Epiphanes, who did just the sort of thing described in Daniel.

    However, God's kingdom failed to materialize after his downfall, and Judea came under the control of the Romans since 66 BC. As a result, the Median and Persian kingdoms were lumped together and the fourth kingdom came to be regarded as Rome. This interpretation can be found in the Dead Sea Scrolls and in the NT. Revelation also assumes that the last kingdom will be Rome (= Babylon the Great). But since the end of the Roman Empire failed to bring what was expected, things were reinterpreted again. Some lumped together Babylon-Medeo-Persia in order to make the fourth kingdom the Arabs, who followed the Romans in controlling Jerusalem. Others interpreted it (or the divided kingdom) as among the kingdoms that replaced the classic Roman empire: the Holy Roman Empire (= the Catholic church, for some Protestants), the French, etc. In the nineteenth century, the global extent of the British empire led many to identify that kingdom as the last one before the second coming. The JW teaching is a variant on this. But none of this has anything to do with the original logic of Daniel, which was entirely focused on the events of the Hellenistic period.

    Leolaia posted Thu, 05 May 2005 15:16:00 GMT(5/5/2005)

    Post 4047 of 16234
    Joined 9/1/2002

    See also:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/88476/1.ashx

    M z posted Thu, 05 May 2005 16:19:00 GMT(5/5/2005)

    Post 155 of 1074
    Joined 7/21/2004

    Leolaia thx so much I was going to direct the question directly to u as I love your answer I do read them all the time and boy you do have it all the time KEEP IT UP

    TheListener posted Thu, 05 May 2005 18:46:00 GMT(5/5/2005)

    Post 316 of 2780
    Joined 12/17/2004

    This may be too simplistic but past WTs have stated that the march of world powers contains only those world powers who interfaced with God's people (whether ancient or modern day). Thus the great empires of the far east incl China and Mongolia are not even considered.

    M A Paduan posted Thu, 05 May 2005 23:11:00 GMT(5/5/2005)

    Post 2042 of 3007
    Joined 6/10/2002
    However, God's kingdom failed to materialize after his downfall, and Judea came under the control of the Romans since 66 BC.

    "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

    ...nor will they say, `Lo, here it is!' or `There!' for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you."

    peacefulpete posted Thu, 05 May 2005 23:19:00 GMT(5/5/2005)

    Post 2469 of 4103
    Joined 3/8/2002

    The Adventist spins (inc.WT) on Daniel ignore 1,000+ years of history so as to leap from Rome to an imagined Anglo-American empire. The years in between saw Palestine ruled by a number of powerful Empires some greater than Egypt,Assyria,Babylon,Media,or Persia. The "amazing accuracy of Bible prophecy" is all smoke and mirrors. Here's a brief review of the empires that controlled the Jewish homeland during the centuries the WT needs to ignore....HISTORY- Foreign Domination

    M z posted Thu, 05 May 2005 23:23:00 GMT(5/5/2005)

    Post 156 of 1074
    Joined 7/21/2004
    Thus the great empires of the far east incl China and Mongolia are not even considered

    .

    TheListener I did ask him about it but he said oh the were not empire

    I gust the far east not included in the world lol

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