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Did 1914 mark an increase in earthquake activity & deaths worldwide?

    Kenneson posted Sun, 09 Mar 2003 23:31:00 GMT(3/9/2003)

    Post 1602 of 5234
    Joined 1/8/2002

    Alan Feuerbacher has written an excellent expose' to the JW position which maintains that since 1914 the frequency and resulting deaths due to earthquakes exceed all previous years. It is well written and worth your while to peruse. The title of the article is "Watchtower Society Backpedals on Earthquakes or How Magicians Write Essays." Read it here:

    http://watchtowerinformationservice.org/eq.htm

    Kenneson posted Sun, 09 Mar 2003 23:51:00 GMT(3/9/2003)

    Post 1603 of 5234
    Joined 1/8/2002

    I should rephrase that to "the J.W. position which maintained..." As you will see, the W.T. Society has made some subtle changes.

    M seedy3 posted Mon, 10 Mar 2003 00:52:00 GMT(3/10/2003)

    Post 406 of 632
    Joined 6/24/2001

    There are actually many groups fo dooms day preachers that try to say that in the last 100+ years there has been an increase in all the things which Jesus allegedly said would happen. I was listening to the local talk radio station here one day and a guy called in who has a website (I don't remember what it is) and he used the same arguement that the WTS used to use. I wasn't able to call in because I was driving at the time, but as soon as I got home, I pulled up Alan's article and e-mailed the pertinant inforomation to the talk show host, who read it on the air the next day, The guy was very impressed with the information. The last words of my email was "I wish these Dooms Day preachers would get their facts straight." This guy actually tried to say he went back 1000's of years of geological records and proved that there is an increase in activity. Evedently he has no idea that anything beyond a couple hundred years is not a very accurate record and is only done with geological digs and would have no record of how much damage was actually done.

    They also try to say how war and pestilence ect is on the increase, but how they have forgotten Napolean, Ghigus Khan, Atilla the Hun. Although the wars they were involved in were never to the magnitude that WW1 or WW2 were, but they were still wars of the then world powers. From times begining, man has been in almost constant war, Napolean almost took all of Euorpe, and Ghigus Khan and his sucsessor did take virtually all of Asia right up to Turkey. So war is nothing new or on the increase, we just hear about it more and see the suffering and killing in the media, that didn't exist until the 20th century. The same goes with pestilence, seems everyone has forgotten the Bubonic plauge that almost wiped Euorpe, people back then including many church leaders felt it was the end of the world.

    Seedy

    UnDisfellowshipped posted Mon, 10 Mar 2003 11:55:00 GMT(3/10/2003)

    Post 1356 of 2769
    Joined 8/11/2002

    NEW LIGHT ON EARTHQUAKES!

    Below is a Timeline of Watchtower Society Quotes about Earthquakes:

    NEW LIGHT:

    Awake! March 22nd 2002 Issue:

    Earthquakes, Bible Prophecy, And You

    BEFORE his death, Jesus foretold events and situations that would give evidence that this world had entered 'the conclusion of the System or things.' That period, he said, would be marked by such things as' pestilences, food shortages, and large-scale warfare. He also mentioned 'great earthquakes' that would occur 'in one place after another.' (Matthew 24:3,7; Luke 21:10, 11) Was Jesus referring to our day? Many say no. They assert that the number of earthquakes has not substantially increased in recent decades. In fact, the U.S. National Earthquake Information Center reports that earthquakes of 7.0 magnitude' and greater remained 'fairly constant' throughout the 20th century.' Note, though, that the fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy does' not require an increase in the number or power of earthquakes. All Jesus said was that there would be great earthquakes in 'one place after another.' Furthermore, he stated that these events would mark the 'beginning of pangs of distress.' (Matthew 24:8) Distress is measured; not by the number of earthquakes or how they rate on' the Richter scale, but by the effect that they have upon people. Some say that any reports of an increase in the number of earthquakes are simply due to advances in technology, which enable more seismic events to be detected.
    _________________________________________________________

    OLD LIGHT:

    The Watchtower October 15th 1956 Issue, Page 614:

    When Will God's Kingdom Come?

    And there will be great earthquakes. Without a shadow of doubt these words have also seen marked fulfillment since 1914. Statistics show that for the 2,000 years that men have been keeping records of earthquakes up until 1914 some 4,700 lives were lost each year. But since 1914 earthquakes have been taking an average of 24,200 lives annually. And in recent years the tempo of major earthquakes has stepped up still more.--Luke 21:11, NW.
    ________________________________________________

    The Watchtower October 15th 1961 Issue, Page 628:

    The Time for God's Kingdom to Come

    EARTHQUAKES IN ONE PLACE AFTER ANOTHER

    Therefore, for this to be the time of Jesus second presence earthquakes would have to be in evidence in an outstanding way. Are they? There can be no question about it. Terrifying earthquakes have rocked the globe with increasing severity and frequency during recent years. A university seismologist declared: Something is going on all over the planet that is hard to put a finger on. Great forces are at work stirring up things far underground, causing vast land drifts on several continents. The further you are from the last big earthquake, the nearer you are to the next. Significantly, since 1914 there have been more major earthquakes than in any previous period of similar length in recorded history. The severest of all, as indicated by modern seismographs, was the Assam quake of August 15, 1950. In December, 1957, Outer Mongolia experienced an upheaval described as one of historys greatest earthquakes. Then, last year, tremendous quakes shook Chile, Morocco and the Persian town of Lars. Scientific American declared: Major quakes used to occur in clusters, each period of activity being followed by a rest period. Since 1948 the pattern has entered a new phase, with approximately one great quake a year.
    ________________________________________________

    The Watchtower March 1st 1962 Issue, Page 132:

    God's New World in Our Generation

    And there will be great earthquakes, said Jesus. (Luke 21:11) That earthquakes have increased in destructiveness during the twentieth century is a matter of record. The first five months of the year 1960 brought the loss of more than 20,000 lives in earthquakes around the globe. But today all mankind is quaking because of world developments and fear of nuclear annihilation.
    ________________________________________________

    The Watchtower November 15th 1964 Issue, Page 678:

    Sign of the Kingdom in Power

    After 1914, particularly since 1948, great subterranean forces seem to have been at work, convulsing our planet, rippling its surface with tremors and almost annually producing one or more disastrous earthquakes. In 1960 Peru, Morocco, Algeria, Japan and Chile were all stricken, with a total death toll exceeding 26,500. In Chile alone damage was estimated at more than $300,000,000. In 1962 Iran and Colombia suffered from great upheavals, Iran reporting some 12,400 dead. In 1963 Libya, Yugoslavia and Kashmir, India, were hardest hit, with a total of 1,390 dead and some 16,000 rendered homeless. Early this year, 1964, Alaska literally writhed, and damage from the quake and the subsequent seismic sea wave was reported to be in the neighborhood of $750,000,000. Certainly Jesus forecast that there will be great earthquakes has been undergoing a striking fulfillment in our time.
    ________________________________________________

    The Watchtower January 15th 1967 Issue, Page 58:

    As Age-Old Institutions Crumble, Is Survival Possible?

    EARTHS MOST TREMENDOUS SHAKE-UP

    The description of the effects of the plague continues: And a great earthquake occurred such as had not occurred since men came to be on the earth, so extensive an earthquake, so great. Earthquakes are the most destructive of the natural forces that man has experienced, and they are increasing in frequency in our times. One of more than average intensity took place at noon on September 1, 1923, and left Tokyo, Japan, and adjacent cities in ruins. The death toll was 100,000, and 43,000 remained missing. The violence was such that in some fields potatoes were thrown out of the ground. The depth of Sagami bay was increased in places a maximum of 690 feet and decreased as much as 820 feet. The earthquake that destroyed Lisbon, Portugal, in 1903 was said to have shaken an area four times as large as Europe.
    ________________________________________________

    The Watchtower April 1st 1967 Issue, Page 198:

    How We Know We Live in the "Last Days"

    4. Similarly, former president of the United States Dwight D. Eisenhower said: A deterioration has been going on since the first World War.

    5. Also, as Jesus foretold, after 1914 a series of earthquakes rocked the globe, causing more damage and casualties than ever before. In 1915, at Avezzano, Italy, 30,000 were killed. In 1920, 180,000 died in Kansu, China. In 1923, 143,000 perished in Japan. And earthquakes have continued to occur with frightening intensity, taking a toll of lives greater than in any other period of human history. Now almost every year sees a major tragedy due to earthquakes. Just since 1960 there have been devastating earthquakes in Morocco, Chile, Iran, Yugoslavia, Alaska, Turkey and other areas. Clearly it makes up another mark of the fingerprint of these last days.
    ________________________________________________

    The Watchtower February 1st 1969 Issue, Page 69:

    The Meaning of Present World Distress

    Also, after 1914 a series of earthquakes rocked the earth, causing great damage. In 1915, in Italy, nearly 30,000 were killed. In 1920, in China, 180,000 died. In 1923, 143,000 died in Japan. And major earthquakes have continued to take place with unusual frequency since then. As Jesus foretold, they are another mark of the last days.
    ________________________________________________

    The Watchtower May 1st 1970 Issue, Page 270:

    Keep Close in Mind "The Conclusion of the System of Things"

    22. To add to the troubles, earthquakes continue to rock the earth as Jesus forecast for this generation. Among the most deadly were the 1920 China quake when 180,000 lost their lives, followed by the 1923 Tokyo killer that took the lives of 143,000. Two thousand five hundred died in Turkey from earthquakes in 1966, and official statistics put the number dead in that country from quakes during the twentieth century at 40,000. In 1967 Colombia had its worst quake ever, with 75 dead and 300 injured; in France 1,100 were made homeless by an earthquake; in Indonesia 41 died, 370 were injured and 2,000 homes were destroyed. Sicily, Greece and Iran experienced quakes in the opening months of 1968. It has been reported that the severity and deadliness of earthquakes have increased markedly since the time of the end commenced for this old system in 1914. In fact, over 900,000 persons have died from earthquakes in this century, including close to 1,250 in the United States.
    ________________________________________________

    The Watchtower February 1st 1974 Issue:

    Pages 72-73:

    Earthquakes Affect Everyone

    NO DIFFERENCE IN EARTHQUAKE PATTERN?

    Yet some persons say: There have always been earthquakes. This time in history is no different from the past in that respect. A scientist asserts in Natural History magazine: One notices with some amusement that certain religious groups have picked this rather unfortunate time to insist that the number of earthquakes is increasing.... It is worth remarking that the number of great earthquakes from 1896 to 1906 (about twenty-five) was greater than in any ten-year interval since. Apparently this religious concern is associated with some of the words of the Gospels referring to the last days... [Jesus prophecy] still impresses a seismologist [earthquake expert] as not much of a prediction.December 1969. Is this a valid objection? To answer that question, in your own Bible notice carefully what Jesus went on to say. He did not predict that the above-listed events (including earthquakes) would occur within any ten-year interval. Rather, he said: Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur. (Matt. 24:34) A whole generation is much longer than ten years. Further, remember that Jesus foretold great earthquakes. What is it that makes an earthquake great? Is it not its effects on lives and property? But modern earthquake students tend to consider an earthquake great only if it rates high on the Richter Scale, which rates magnitude, the power or force a quake releases. Some of the earthquakes with the highest magnitude ratings, however, are under the oceans! These have had virtually no effect on men. On the other hand, quakes with relatively low Richter Scale ratings have been among the most disastrous. The Agadir, Morocco, quake in 1960 rated light on the Richter Scale. Does that mean that it was not great? Certainly not. Twenty thousand persons died! We must remember that Jesus words had a certain fulfillment in the first century C.E. on the Jewish system of things. They had no sophisticated scale to measure earthquakes then. But there were, nevertheless, great earthquakes and earthquakes in one place after another in that period prior to 70 C.E. when the Romans destroyed Jerusalem. Bible commentator A. Barnes attests to this, saying: Many earthquakes are mentioned as preceding the destruction of Jerusalem. Large ones are known to have struck places in Asia Minor, Judea and Italy, including the destruction of a large section of Pompeii in 63 C.E. Obviously, what made those quakes great and what fulfilled the prophecy was not the reading on a then unknown instrument, but, essentially, their effects on people.

    Page 74:

    Earthquakes Affect Everyone

    If so, remember, we are almost sixty years into the generation that will not pass away until all things occur. Its time must be running out! Ask Jehovahs witnesses to explain in detail Jesus prophecy about our time. It is vital to get an accurate knowledge of Gods requirements if you are to survive the fast-approaching end of this wicked system into that foretold paradise earth.Matt. 24:21; Rev. 21:1-4.

    [Graph on Page 73] (For fully formatted text, see the actual Publication):

    EARTHQUAKE DEATHS EACH YEAR

    Before 1914: 3,000
    Since 1914: 15,000 (Approximation based on the past thousand years)
    ________________________________________________

    Awake! January 8th 1977 Issue, Pages 15-16:

    When Quake and Tide Combine

    During the past sixty-two years Jehovahs Witnesses have pointed out to their neighbors that all the facets of the sign that Jesus gave have seen fulfillment since 1914. Regarding earthquakes as a feature of that sign, more than 900,000 persons have died because of earthquakes since that year. Counting from about 1,000 years ago, the average yearly death rate from earthquakes was 3,000 before 1914; but since then that average has leaped to 15,000 per year. Jesus prophecies about earthquakes apply now!
    ________________________________________________

    Awake! October 8th 1980 Issue, Pages 20-21:

    Do You Recognize the Meaning of What You See?

    Has the frequency of earthquakes really increased? The Italian magazine Il Piccolo observed: Our generation lives in a dangerous period of high seismic activity, as statistics show. And then it produced figures for the past thousand years to prove it. What does it all mean? Long ago the Bible foretold a time when, along with international wars and food shortages, there would be earthquakes in one place after another. (Matt. 24:7) This is now taking place on a scale unequaled in human history. The Bible mentions such earthquakes as part of a composite sign identifying the last days, the conclusion of the wicked world system of things. It also associates them with the invisible presence of Jesus Christ, the time when he would begin to exercise God-given authority as king over all mankind.
    ________________________________________________

    Awake! April 8th 1981 Issue, Page 29:

    Watching the World

    Quakes on Increase??

    Earth may be in a period of growing earthquake and volcanic activity, according to Robert I. Tilling, chief of the U.S. Geological Surveys office of Geochemistry and Geophysics. There are some suggestions that both volcanoes and earthquakes worldwide are on the increase, he told a scientific gathering. Tilling said that this could reflect a basic change in movements of the giant rock plates that form earths crust.
    ________________________________________________

    The Watchtower May 15th 1983 Issue, Page 6:

    Earthquakes-A Sign of the End?

    Modern-Day Earthquakes

    Does Jesus prediction of earthquakes find a fulfillment in the 20th century? In other words, have there been great earthquakes that indicate we are living at the conclusion of the system of things? Facts prove that this century is being rocked by earthquakes. The earth experiences more than 1,000,000 per year, with 1,000 of them being damaging shocks. Some seismologists believe that the earth is now in an active earthquake period. For example, Professor Keiiti Aki of the Department of Earth and Planetary Sciences at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology speaks of the apparent surge in intensity and frequency of major earthquakes during the last one hundred years, though stating that the period from 1500 through 1700 was as active.In the Italian journal Il Piccolo, of October 8, 1978, Geo Malagoli observed:Our generation lives in a dangerous period of high seismic activity, as statistics show. In fact, during a period of 1,059 years (from 856 to 1914) reliable sources list only 24 major earthquakes causing 1,973,000 deaths. However, [in] recent disasters, we find that 1,600,000 persons have died in only 63 years, as a result of 43 earthquakes which occurred from 1915 to 1978. This dramatic increase further goes to emphasize another accepted factour generation is an unfortunate one in many ways. Jesus prophesied that the conclusion of the system of things would be marked by earthquakes in one place after another, and, according to Lukes account, great earthquakes. (Matthew 24:3, 7; Luke 21:11) Has the generation that was living in 1914, and of which there are still many survivors, witnessed these things? The facts answer, Yes! (See Chart II.) And earthquakes are still being witnessed not only by remaining ones of that generation but by the largest number of people in history. (Matthew 24:34) Mankind today is also more aware of the global activity of earthquakes and their effects than were people in any past century. What is it that would make an earthquake great? Its intensity, or magnitude, as measured by the Mercalli or Richter scale? Or, rather, would it not be its notoriety and the amount of destruction it caused? As the accompanying Chart III indicates, loss of human life due to earthquakes has mushroomed since 1914. And some of them with the greatest magnitude have been deep within oceans, known only to a few, with little if any effect on human property or life. In determining the modern fulfillment of Jesus prophecy, we should focus not merely on the magnitude of quakes according to the Richter or other such scale but on the extent of resultant property damage and loss of human life.
    ________________________________________________

    The Watchtower April 15th 1984 Issue, Pages 5-6:

    Do You Recognize the Sign?

    EARTHQUAKES: Earthquakes occur so regularly in one place after another that many pay them little attention. Yet in 1973 the publication Earthquakes warned: One may have the very uncomfortable feeling that we are again heading for a period of increased earthquake activity. This feeling, very unfortunately, is correct. Three years later, Tang-shan, China, was struck by what an American specialist called the greatest earthquake disaster in the history of mankind. And how many of the major quakes since then do you remember? Perhaps the ones in Algeria, Italy, North Yemen, Colombia and Iran?
    ________________________________________________

    Awake! October 22nd 1984 Issue, Pages 6-7:

    The Countdown Nears Its End!

    EARTHQUAKES

    There will be earthquakes in one place after another.Matthew 24:7; Mark 13:8; Luke 21:11. The earth shakes from more than a million quakes a year, 3,000 of them forceful enough to move the earths surface noticeably. Modern scientific instruments are finely tuned to note and record even the slightest quake. But Jesus foretold great earthquakes. (Luke 21:11) Has the frequency of these really changed? It has never required sensitive mechanisms to tell us when major quakes strike. Since 1914 the yearly average of reported severe earthquakes has soared to over 11 times what it was during the thousand years before then. Is more than that required to fulfill the prophecy?
    ________________________________________________

    The Watchtower January 15th 1987 Issue, Pages 21-22:

    Earthquakes-Distress Upon Distress

    Many seismologists believe that earthquakes are no greater or more frequent now than they were in the past. Conversely, others conclude that our generation has experienced earthquakes more frequently than did previous ones. Based on available records, the 20th century does significantly overshadow the past in seismic activity. Publications of the Watch Tower Society have repeatedly called attention to this, highlighting the Biblical significance of earthquakes occurring since 1914.Records of earthquakes before 1914 are not complete, however. And earlier generations did not have scientific means of measurement that would permit us reliably to compare the magnitudes of earthquakes past and present. Does this mean that we cannot recognize the fulfillment of Jesus prophecy? No, not at all. Jesus apparently foresaw that history would not record all pre-1914 quakes and that earlier generations would not have accurate seismological instruments, just as he foresaw the other circumstances of our time. Consequently, he did not word the prophecy in such a way that recognition of the fulfillment would require earthquake records from earlier centuries or instrument readings. Jesus did not say that the number of earthquakes in the last days would be X times greater than the number during some earlier period, nor did he state that we would see the greatest earthquakes ever. (2 Timothy 3:1) He did not speak as a seismologist. Jesus focused on the human experience. Earthquakes were to be part of a beginning of pangs of distress. (Matthew 24:8) Distress is not measured by instruments. The travail of people is the ultimate measure of a calamity, including an earthquake. For Jesus prophecy to be fulfilled, distress caused by earthquakes would have to be present in a significant way. Recognition of the earthquake feature of the prophecy is thus not dependent on the vagaries of human record-keeping or upon scientific measurements of energy released. Todays reports of earthquakes graphically portray the dimensions of human distress resulting from seismic activity
    ________________________________________________

    Insight Book Volume 1 (1988)

    Page 670:

    Earthquake

    Jesus foretold earthquakes in significant number and intensity as a feature of the sign of his presence. (Mt 24:3, 7, 8; Lu 21:11) Since 1914 C.E., there has been an increase in the number of earthquakes, resulting in much distress. With data obtained from the National Geophysical Data Center in Boulder, Colorado, supplemented by a number of standard reference works, a tabulation was made in 1984 that included only earthquakes that measured 7.5 or more on the Richter scale, or that resulted in destruction of five million dollars (U.S.) or more in property, or that caused 100 or more deaths. It was calculated that there had been 856 of such earthquakes during the 2,000 years before 1914. The same tabulation showed that in just 69 years following 1914 there were 605 of such quakes. These statistics are a means of indicating the extent of suffering from earthquakes during this period of history.

    Page 918:

    Generation

    The people of this 20th-century generation living since 1914 have experienced these many terrifying events concurrently and in concentrated measureinternational wars, great earthquakes, terrible pestilences, widespread famine, persecution of Christians, and other conditions that Jesus outlined in Matthew chapter 24, Mark chapter 13, and Luke chapter 21.
    ________________________________________________

    The Watchtower October 1st 1988 Issue, Page 5:

    The Sign-Have You Seen It?

    And there will be great earthquakes. (Luke 21:11) In their book Terra Non Firma, Stanford University professors Gere and Shah list details of 164 significant earthquakes of the world spanning over three thousand years into the past. Of this total, 89 struck since 1914, taking an estimated 1,047,944 lives. This list included only major earthquakes, and since publication of Terra Non Firma in 1984, destructive earthquakes have occurred in Chile, the Soviet Union, and Mexico, resulting in thousands more deaths.
    ________________________________________________

    The Watchtower October 15th 1988 Issue, Page 3:

    The Sign-Proof That the New World Is Near?

    Since 1914, hundreds of millions of lives have been snuffed out by wars, famines, pestilences, and other disasters. The New Encyclopdia Britannica (1987) lists 63 Major historical earthquakes spanning the past 1,700 years. Of this total, 27, or 43 percent, have struck since 1914. The book Terra Non Firma, by Professors Gere and Shah, has a list covering a longer period. Of the total significant earthquakes in that list, 54 percent have taken place since 1914. Even granting that records from past centuries are incomplete, we cannot escape the conclusion that in our time mankind has been greatly affected by earthquakes.

    [Footnotes]: The World Book Encyclopedia (1987) lists 37 Major Earthquakes, from 526 C.E. forward. Of this list, 65 percent have occurred since 1914.
    ________________________________________________

    Reasoning Book (1989), Page 236:

    Last Days

    There will be great earthquakes (Luke 21:11) It is true that there were major quakes in centuries past; furthermore, with their sensitive equipment scientists now detect more than a million quakes a year. But no special instruments are needed for people to know when there is a great earthquake. Has there actually been a significant number of major earthquakes since 1914? With data obtained from the National Geophysical Data Center in Boulder, Colorado, supplemented by a number of standard reference works, a tabulation was made in 1984 that included only earthquakes that measured 7.5 or more on the Richter scale, or that resulted in destruction of five million dollars (U.S.) or more in property, or that caused 100 or more deaths. It was calculated that there had been 856 of such earthquakes during the 2,000 years before 1914. The same tabulation showed that in just 69 years following 1914 there were 605 of such quakes. That means that, in comparison with the previous 2,000 years, the average per year has been 20 times as great since 1914.
    ________________________________________________

    The Watchtower May 1st 1992 Issue, Pages 6-7:

    The 1914 Generation-Why Significant?

    Title page of Scenario of the Photo-Drama of Creation, 1914. For further details, see chapter 16 of the book You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth, published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.

    ....Accordingly, the war that broke out in 1914 was accompanied by terrible food shortages, since normal food production was disrupted for over four years. What about earthquakes in one place after another? In the decade following 1914, no less than ten destructive earthquakes killed over 350,000 people. (See box.) Indeed, the 1914 generation experienced a beginning of pangs of distress. And ever since, pangs of distress have struck with regularity in the form of natural disasters, famines, and many, many wars.
    ________________________________________________

    The Watchtower September 15th 1998 Issue, Page 7:

    It Is High Time to Awake!

    Earthquakes in one place after another (Matthew 24:7) During the last 2,500 years, only nine earthquakes have each killed over 100,000 people. Four of these quakes have occurred since 1914.
    ________________________________________________

    M dmouse posted Mon, 10 Mar 2003 12:32:00 GMT(3/10/2003)

    Post 776 of 1540
    Joined 4/3/2001

    Here is a link to the page quoted in the Awake March 2nd 2002 issue, posted by UnDisfellowshipped:

    http://wwwneic.cr.usgs.gov/neis/general/handouts/increase_in_earthquakes.html

    After decades of insisting that earthquakes HAVE increased and that this is a proof that we are living in the 'last days' the WBTS have now been FORCED to change 'light' because the real evidence, while always having been there, is now more readily available via the Net.

    People can now find out stuff for themselves more easily, and this means that the Society has to answer questions it used to prefer to ignore. Once more the Internet kicks the WBTS in the goolies.

    Note, though, that the fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy does' not require an increase in the number or power of earthquakes. All Jesus said was that there would be great earthquakes in 'one place after another.'

    Think about this for a minute. What the hell kind of sign is it that just means that things carry on as they always have!

    The audacity of such statements, and the mentality of those that accept them, is just mind-boggling.

    M Francois posted Mon, 10 Mar 2003 15:37:00 GMT(3/10/2003)

    Post 3965 of 5172
    Joined 3/31/2001

    No.

    francois

    M Iron Eagle posted Sat, 29 Mar 2003 21:49:00 GMT(3/29/2003)

    Post 58 of 87
    Joined 11/18/2002

    buy SIGN OF THE LAST DAYS, WHEN?

    By Carl Olaf Jonsson

    REALNESS posted Sat, 29 Mar 2003 22:36:00 GMT(3/29/2003)

    Post 16 of 71
    Joined 3/6/2003

    Francios: i just knew u would say NO .

    As the wtbts points out there is no need for an increase, true there have always been these "signs" but jesus meant that in the last days people would be able to see these signs clearly, in the age we live in, with 24 hr news coverage and internet access people are able to see these things taking place. There would be no point in these signs happening even a century ago because not everybody would be able to wittness these things, the world is a smaller place, hence jesus words You will see earthquakes etc.

    R

    F Soledad posted Sat, 29 Mar 2003 23:15:00 GMT(3/29/2003)

    Post 317 of 2694
    Joined 5/8/2002

    now this is interesting:

    If so, remember, we are almost sixty years into the generation that will not pass away until all things occur. Its time must be running out! Ask Jehovahs witnesses to explain in detail Jesus prophecy about our time. It is vital to get an accurate knowledge of Gods requirements if you are to survive the fast-approaching end of this wicked system into that foretold paradise earth.Matt. 24:21; Rev. 21:1-4.

    It really makes me wonder how JWs are able to just roll over and play dead when I ask them to explain why the meaning of "this generation" changed in 1995.

    REALNESS posted Sat, 29 Mar 2003 23:50:00 GMT(3/29/2003)

    Post 18 of 71
    Joined 3/6/2003

    This generation will by no means pass away until these things occur. These "things" are the sign of the last days, not all these signs came to pass at the exact same time, rather as we head into the last days each individual sign comes together to form the bigger picture, the composite sign as jesus taught, a period of time will occur when these signs are all occuring and reoccuring time and time again together. Since 1914 these signs have occured at various times, eg: wars, earthquakes but not all the signs at the same time. These are the beginings of the pangs of distress and they will be fufilled when they occur in such an undeniable together.

    These signs represet the beginings of the pangs of distress and not the end of this system, so the generation of 1914 can pass away as these signs occur and in the fufillment of these. These signs only provide evidence that jesus is near, so there will be a period of time after these and the wtbs is not reliant on armagedon taking place in respect of these scriptures.

    R

    AlanF posted Sun, 30 Mar 2003 00:17:00 GMT(3/30/2003)

    Post 2145 of 4650
    Joined 3/7/2001

    REALNESS, your comments are utter nonsense. Would you like me to explain in detail why?

    AlanF

    REALNESS posted Sun, 30 Mar 2003 00:26:00 GMT(3/30/2003)

    Post 20 of 71
    Joined 3/6/2003

    Alan f : Thank you for the offer but i must politely decline your kind invitation, i know you are a busy man and have many pressing engagements, so feel it would be unfair of me to distract you with my nonsense a moment longer.

    R

    OUTLAW posted Sun, 30 Mar 2003 02:50:00 GMT(3/30/2003)

    Post 3447 of 23865
    Joined 10/11/2001

    ..Eathquakes on the decline..People living longer..1914 no longer relevant to the WBTS(they had to cancel armageddon,LOL!)...Just a tiny bit of research will show you WBTS is full of crap...OUTLAW

    AlanF posted Sun, 30 Mar 2003 02:52:00 GMT(3/30/2003)

    Post 2146 of 4650
    Joined 3/7/2001

    Oh, no, Realness, I'm never too busy to show why JWs like you are such spewers of nonsense in God's name. I always welcome the chance to innoculate naive readers against your foolishness.

    Let's try a little experiment just for grins, shall we? If I told you to meet me at the corner of Hollywood and Vine in L.A. on the very day that you see the sky is blue, the grass is green and young men are lusting after young women, would you have a clue when to meet me? Why not?

    AlanF

    hillary_step posted Mon, 31 Mar 2003 00:46:00 GMT(3/31/2003)

    Post 2347 of 7304
    Joined 4/13/2001

    Realness,

    As the wtbts points out there is no need for an increase, true there have always been these "signs" but jesus meant that in the last days people would be able to see these signs clearly, in the age we live in, with 24 hr news coverage and internet access people are able to see these things taking place. There would be no point in these signs happening even a century ago because not everybody would be able to wittness these things, the world is a smaller place, hence jesus words You will see earthquakes etc.

    Are you serious? You actually believe that the God has been waiting for the world media and its Internet gurus to gets their act together so that he can then bring an Armageddon?....lol

    Why did he not demand the same standards of himself when he purportedly drowned millions of people at the Flood? Let me guess, Noah was a preacher of righteousness and subsequently designed the first mass produced papyrus and tablet printing operation just to make sure people could read what was about to happen to them? In case you doubt my figure of millions, take out your Insight book and read the WTS equation of how many able bodied men were alive 120years after the Flood when the Tower Babel was purportedly being built. Now apply the same equation to the stated generations who lived before the Flood. What figure do you have?

    Stick around Realness - you have much to learn - HS

    OUTLAW posted Mon, 31 Mar 2003 02:23:00 GMT(3/31/2003)

    Post 3470 of 23865
    Joined 10/11/2001

    "You actually believe that God has been waiting for the world media and it`s internet gurus to get their act together so he can then bring an armageddon?"........LOL!! hillary_step,you do have a way with words..The truth and common sense will cut through bullshit in a heartbeat...OUTLAW

    Farkel posted Mon, 31 Mar 2003 02:33:00 GMT(3/31/2003)

    Post 5111 of 11743
    Joined 3/14/2001

    Realness,

    Of course you are shown to be a hit-and-run dubbie coward. None of us who've been around the dubbie block are surprised. Thank you for sharing, and thank you VERY MUCH for showing your religion, when cornered has no real arguments. Your contributions showing how weak your religion's stance is, is much welcome for lovers of truth and ethics.

    : Distress is measured; not by the number of earthquakes or how they rate on' the Richter scale, but by the effect that they have upon people.

    This is a most-telling statement, and I think I should point out why I think it is very signficant. The WTS has argued for decades that earthquakes would increase in intensity and damage to fulfill their interpretation of Matt 24, Luke 21, and Mark 13. With this single sentence, the Watchtower has done a 180 degree turn and stated that that actual earthquakes in these last days are not as important as the "perception" of people who live through them or see news accounts of them and then have some "effect" that is Biblically significant from hearing, living, or viewing them in the media.

    Recalling Jesus' words (I'm paraphrasing) he stated that there would be earthquakes in one place after another. What Jesus did NOT say was, "but the earthquakes themselves don't mean dick. What means dick in the latest joke from WatchtowerLand(tm) is how "scared" the people will be when those earthquakes happen. The more scared they are, the closer to the "end" it will be."

    Can any rational person tell me that people are MUCH more scared of earthquakes in our modern time, now that we know what causes them and now that we have built many structures and have plans and logistics to deal with them, than people were, say 1200 years ago when those supersitious people thought earthquakes were a punishement from God and had NO plan in place to deal with the problems earthquakes caused back then?

    In short, is the "effect" of earthquakes today so much more negative and scary than the "effects" of earthquakes one millennium ago?

    Furthermore, if one takes this "new light" (bullshit) from the Watchtower Book-Selling Corporation" on its face, then it must also logically follow that EVERYTHING Jesus mentioned in Matt 24, et. al was not about about the "thing" itself, but the "effect" of the thing.

    Wars and rumors of wars haven't really increased. It's just that when people "think" about them, it's very damaging to people and a sure sign of the "last days(tm)."

    Famines and food shortages haven't really increased. It's just that when people "think" about them, it's very damaging to people and a sure sign of the "last days(tm)."

    Therefore, NOTHING Jesus said was literal. It was all about how people somehow "perceive" it! Do you folks get the idiocy of this kind of reasoning? It is implying that somehow in our days people "perceive" earthquakes, famines and wars in some ominous way that people never "perceived" such things before!

    The WTS Corporation has painted itself into a very dangerous corner, and I just showed why.

    Farkel

    REALNESS posted Mon, 31 Mar 2003 02:39:00 GMT(3/31/2003)

    Post 28 of 71
    Joined 3/6/2003

    Yes Outlaw she does have a way with words....unlike you!!!....i have noticed your replies to me are very angry...care to share?.

    R

    Farkel posted Mon, 31 Mar 2003 02:54:00 GMT(3/31/2003)

    Post 5113 of 11743
    Joined 3/14/2001

    Realness,

    : have noticed your replies to me are very angry...care to share?.

    It's very difficult to hold back one's words when dealing with a doofus like you. I'm sure OUTLAW would agree with me on this.

    When are you going to answer MY comments, doofus?

    Farkel

    F StinkyPantz posted Mon, 31 Mar 2003 03:07:00 GMT(3/31/2003)

    Post 922 of 4303
    Joined 5/27/2002

    Farkel-

    I know you don't care for me much, but if necessary may I use your words if the subject about earthquakes and the signs of the last days comes up (in my "debate" with REALNESS)? I thought you stated things clearly and concisely.

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