JESUS CHRIST -- I AM WHO I AM

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    UnDisfellowshipped posted Thu, 29 Aug 2002 11:57:00 GMT(8/29/2002)

    Post 27 of 2750
    Joined 8/11/2002

    (Exodus 3:13) And Moses said to God, Behold, when I come to the children of Israel, and shall say to them, The God of YOUR fathers has sent me to YOU; and they shall say to me, What is His Name? what shall I say to them?
    (Exodus 3:14) And God said to Moses, I AM WHO I AM: and He said, Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to YOU.
    (Exodus 3:15) And God said moreover to Moses, Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, Jehovah the God of YOUR fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to YOU: this is My Name forever, and this is My Memorial to all generations.

    (John 8:24) I said therefore to YOU, that YOU shall die in YOUR sins: for if YOU do not believe that I AM, YOU shall die in YOUR sins.

    (John 8:28) Then Jesus said to them, When YOU have lifted up the Son of Man, then YOU shall know that I AM, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father has taught Me, I speak these things.

    (John 8:53) Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? and the Prophets are dead: who do you make Yourself?
    (John 8:54) Jesus answered, If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing: it is My Father who honors Me; of whom YOU say, that He is YOUR God:
    (John 8:55) Yet YOU have not known Him; but I know Him: and if I should say, I do not know Him, I shall be a liar like YOU: but I know Him, and keep His Saying.
    (John 8:56) Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw it, and was glad.
    (John 8:57) Then the Jews said to Him, You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?
    (John 8:58) Jesus said to them, Truly, Truly, I say to YOU, Before Abraham was, I AM.
    (John 8:59) Then they took up stones to cast at Him: but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the Temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

    (Mark 14:61) But He held His peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked Him, and said to Him, Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
    (Mark 14:62) And Jesus said, I AM: and YOU shall see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of Power, and coming in the clouds of Heaven.
    (Mark 14:63) Then the high priest tore his clothes, and said, What need do we have for any further witnesses?
    (Mark 14:64) YOU have heard the blasphemy: what do YOU think? And they all condemned Him to be guilty of death.

    (John 9:9) Some said, This is He: others said, He is like Him: but He said, I AM.

    (John 13:19) Now I tell you before it comes, that, when it is comes to pass, YOU may believe that I AM.

    (John 18:3) Judas then, having received a band of men and officers from the chief priests and Pharisees, comes near with lanterns and torches and weapons.
    (John 18:4) Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon Him, went forth, and said to them, Who do YOU seek?
    (John 18:5) They answered Him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus said to them, I AM. And Judas also, which betrayed Him, stood with them.
    (John 18:6) As soon then as He had said to them, I AM, they went backwards, and fell to the ground.
    (John 18:7) Then He asked them again, Who do YOU seek? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.
    (John 18:8) Jesus answered, I have told you that I AM: if therefore YOU seek Me, let these go their way:
    (John 18:9) That the saying might be fulfilled, which He spoke, Of those which You gave Me I have lost none.

    Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 29 August 2002 21:52:15

    M JosephMalik posted Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:59:00 GMT(8/29/2002)

    Post 135 of 1467
    Joined 5/2/2002

    Undisfellowshipped,

    This was a waste of time. It all means nothing. The words used are self explanatory. Each verse must be understood in its own setting and not word matched as if the same thing was meant in all of them. Such words are also translation dependent and useless for the purpose of identification.

    Joseph

    Edited by - JosephMalik on 29 August 2002 9:0:32

    UnDisfellowshipped posted Fri, 30 Aug 2002 02:10:00 GMT(8/30/2002)

    Post 28 of 2750
    Joined 8/11/2002

    Hi JosephMalik,

    I agree that the Isaiah Scriptures which I had up on Post (I have since edited them out), did not have anything to do with the others probably.

    However, I do believe that there is a definite connection between the Exodus "I AM WHO I AM" Name and the "I AM" Name for Jesus Christ in the Gospel of John.

    Just look at John 8:58, Jesus used "I AM" as a Name or Title for Himself, and then the Pharisees wanted to murder him for blasphemy because He was claiming to be God!

    Also, in John Chapter 18, when Jesus Christ said that He was "I AM", all of the people fell down on the ground!

    So I do believe that Jesus using the Name "I AM" in John must have had great significance.

    The Watchtower Society, in their warped-out New World Trans-Obliteration of the Holy Scriptures, ALTERED the Exodus and John 8:58 Scriptures so that in their Bible, the two Verses have NO connection.

    Here is how their Bible reads:

    In Exodus, it reads "I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE" instead of "I AM WHO I AM".

    In John 8:58, it reads "I have been", instead of "I AM".

    Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 29 August 2002 22:15:43

    OUTLAW posted Fri, 30 Aug 2002 02:15:00 GMT(8/30/2002)

    Post 2620 of 24022
    Joined 10/11/2001

    Didn`t Popeye say that? "I am who I am,and thats all that I am.I`m Popeye the salior man"..LOL...OUTLAW

    M Ginosko posted Fri, 30 Aug 2002 03:01:00 GMT(8/30/2002)

    Post 7 of 127
    Joined 3/31/2002

    Hi,

    English is not my native languaje and almost always I only read the threds. But in this case I think have some information usufull. But this is only my personal opinion.

    I AM from John 8:58 come from the greek EGO EIMI. Exodus 3:14 was writted in Hebrew but translated near 200 BC into greek to EGO EIMI O ON and the to the Englis I AM WHO I AM. In the septuagint there a several ocasion in which the words EGO EIMI are used, for example in Gen 24:34 talking about the aplying to a slave of Abraham. Also wa can see in Mat 26: 25 a Judas using EGO EIMI. Therefore, don't try understand any deep revelation in this words.

    Personally I can agree that the JW don't understand completed the role of Jesus Christ, but I don't believe in the Trinity. I also can agree according Heb 1:6 that we need to give PROSKYNEO, but I understand that the Father is greater than Jesus Christ.

    On the other hand. Is very hard to be sure about any dogma in the bible. The Father see the heart not our kwnoledge.

    UnDisfellowshipped posted Fri, 30 Aug 2002 03:32:00 GMT(8/30/2002)

    Post 30 of 2750
    Joined 8/11/2002

    Hi Ginosko,

    You may be right.

    I still think in John 8:58 Jesus was saying that He was the Great Eternal "I AM" because the Pharisees tried tostone Him immediately afterwards for blasphemy.

    Since this is a Thread about our Lord Jesus Christ, I think I would post some Scriptures showing that Jesus Christ was indeed PRAYED TO by the Apostles and Disciples, and PRAYER is something reserved for GOD ALONE:

    Acts 7:55: But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, looked up steadfastly into Heaven, and saw the Glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
    Acts 7:56: and said, "Behold, I see the Heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!"
    Acts 7:57: But they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and rushed at him with one accord.
    Acts 7:58: They threw him out of the City, and stoned him. The witnesses placed their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul.
    Acts 7:59: They stoned Stephen as he called out, saying, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!"
    Acts 7:60: He kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, "Lord, don't hold this sin against them!" When he had said this, he fell asleep (in death).

    2nd Corinthians 12:8: Concerning this thing, I begged the Lord three times that it might depart from me.
    2nd Corinthians 12:9: He has said to me, "My Grace is sufficient for you, for My power is made perfect in weakness." Most gladly therefore I will rather glory in my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest on me.
    2nd Corinthians 12:10: Therefore I take pleasure in weaknesses, in injuries, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake. For when I am weak, then am I strong.

    Revelation 22:20: He who testifies these things says, "Yes, I Come quickly." Amen! Yes, Come, Lord Jesus.
    Revelation 22:21: The Grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with all the Saints (Holy Ones). Amen.

    M Ginosko posted Fri, 30 Aug 2002 03:52:00 GMT(8/30/2002)

    Post 8 of 127
    Joined 3/31/2002

    I can agree that according the bible, we can pray Jesus. But I don't agree that this means that Jesus Christ is the same as the Father. And I also can understand that this last words are very polemics, but is my opinion. As I cited in Heb 1:6 the angels also workship Jesus Christ, but I understand that all this is for the glory of the Father as Phi 2:11 told us. For me 1 Cor 8: 5-6 is enough clear. But again, the Father see heart not knowledge. There are a lot of guys more inteligent than us who try to understand this points in the bible and were unable to explain completed clear to us. Don't worry much about this topic. Try to be a better person and to develop a relationship with the Father.

    Agape.

    M Ginosko posted Fri, 30 Aug 2002 04:10:00 GMT(8/30/2002)

    Post 9 of 127
    Joined 3/31/2002

    I miss one point. The Pharisean try to tostone Jesus because they hated him. When a group of persons hate someone they find some reason of guilty not matter if true or not.

    UnDisfellowshipped posted Fri, 30 Aug 2002 04:26:00 GMT(8/30/2002)

    Post 31 of 2750
    Joined 8/11/2002

    Ginosko said:

    I can agree that according the bible, we can pray Jesus. But I don't agree that this means that Jesus Christ is the same as the Father.

    Good point. Jesus Christ is definitely not the same Person as the Father. You are correct, The Son is in subjection to the Father, however, I do believe that Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are EQUAL with the Father in their Nature and Eternalness (if "Eternalness" is a word).

    Ginosko said:

    As I cited in Heb 1:6 the angels also workship Jesus Christ, but I understand that all this is for the glory of the Father as Phi 2:11 told us. For me 1 Cor 8: 5-6 is enough clear.

    Yes, Jesus Christ was worshipped and prayed to, which, according to the Scriptures, are things which are reserved for Almighty God, so I believe that Jesus Christ is definitely God (John 1:1, John 20:28, etc.) but He is in subjection to God the Father. Yes, the Father is glorified when we glorify the Son, that is why Jesus Himself said that we should "Honor the Son just as you honor the Father." So, we should be honoring them both EQUALLY as being God. In fact, it is God the Holy Spirit who brings attention to Jesus and leads people to Him to be Born Again.

    Ginosko said:

    But again, the Father see heart not knowledge. There are a lot of guys more inteligent than us who try to understand this points in the bible and were unable to explain completed clear to us. Don't worry much about this topic. Try to be a better person and to develop a relationship with the Father.

    Yes, the Father (as well as the Son and the Spirit) certainly does see our hearts, and it is important to be the best person you can be, and to follow Christ's example as closely as we possibly can, and yes, developing a close relationship with the Father and Christ Jesus is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT. However, I do believe it is also very important for us to acknowledge Jesus Christ's True Nature as is revealed in the Bible.

    Ginosko said

    I miss one point. The Pharisean try to tostone Jesus because they hated him. When a group of persons hate someone they find some reason of guilty not matter if true or not.

    Good point, yes the Pharisees used every opportunity they had to try and kill Jesus, however, my point was, they wanted to appear "righteous" to the onlookers, so I noticed that when they tried to stone Him in the Scriptures, they waited until Jesus said something that was blasphemy for someone to say unless they were Truly God. So, if you notice, in John Chapter 8, they did not try to stone Him until John 8:58 where He said "Before Abraham was born, I AM." The way I see it is that the Pharisees did not realize perhaps, that Christ had said He was "I AM" previously in Chapter 8, because in John 8:53, the Pharisees ask Jesus, "Who do you make Youself out to be?" But when when Jesus made it clear that He had existed before Abraham and then said "I AM", I think the Pharisees knew exactly what He meant, and since the Pharisees did not believe Jesus was God, they tried to stone Him for blasphemy.

    I hope I made sense.

    Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 30 August 2002 0:39:20

    M JosephMalik posted Fri, 30 Aug 2002 05:21:00 GMT(8/30/2002)

    Post 136 of 1467
    Joined 5/2/2002

    Just look at John 8:58, Jesus used "I AM" as a Name or Title for Himself, and then the Pharisees wanted to murder him for blasphemy because He was claiming to be God!

    Undisfellowshipped,

    No! All one has to do is read the texts to see that this is a simply a response to their question. There is no connection with Exodus whatever. Besides the Greek text of John is not related to the Hebrew text of Exodus. Check a Septuigent and see how they translate Ex 3:14 into Greek. Our Lord did not say I am the Being (ego emi ho ohn) which is specific and used in the Septuigent not general as the simple I am (ego emi) used in John. Even the King James does not capitalize the phrase.

    57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

    Verse 58 simply responds to the question in verse 57. The Verily, Verily, is a Jewish idiom that indicates an absolute truth is now being uttered. And that truth is that He existed before Abraham was. Thus the I am is simply a historical fact and reference not a name. It indicates a prior existence already established in John 1:1. You will find additional information on such use in Beyond Trinitarianism found at http://localsonly.wilmington.net/jmalik/ There is no smoking gun here such as you indicate in your comments.

    P.S. I just noticed that Ginosko argued well and the anger that the Jews displayed by such comments does not support your view. After all they were wrong and their error does not a truth make. You will find all this discussed in my document on the trinity.

    Joseph

    Edited by - JosephMalik on 30 August 2002 1:22:41

    Edited by - JosephMalik on 30 August 2002 1:33:50

    UnDisfellowshipped posted Fri, 30 Aug 2002 07:18:00 GMT(8/30/2002)

    Post 35 of 2750
    Joined 8/11/2002

    Thanks for your Posts JosephMalik,

    I will definitely check out that Website you mentioned.

    Now, below I am going to Post what some of the Bible Commentaries and Dictionaries say about the "I AM" statements of Christ (just to get some different viewpoints on the subject):

    Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary -- John 8:54-59:

    Christ and all that are his, depend upon God for honour. Men may be able to dispute about God, yet may not know him. Such as know not God, and obey not the gospel of Christ, are put together, 2Th_1:8. All who rightly know anything of Christ, earnestly desire to know more of him. Those who discern the dawn of the light of the Sun of Righteousness, wish to see his rising. Before Abraham was, I AM. This speaks Abraham a creature, and our Lord the Creator; well, therefore, might he make himself greater than Abraham. I AM, is the name of God, Exo 3:14; it speaks his self-existence; he is the First and the Last, ever the same, Rev_1:8. Thus he was not only before Abraham, but before all worlds, Pro 8:23; Joh 1:1. As Mediator, he was the appointed Messiah, long before Abraham; the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, Rev 13:8. The Lord Jesus was made of God Wisdom, Righteousness, Sanctification, and Redemption, to Adam, and Abel, and all that lived and died by faith in him, before Abraham. The Jews were about to stone Jesus for blasphemy, but he withdrew; by his miraculous power he passed through them unhurt. Let us stedfastly profess what we know and believe concerning God; and if heirs of Abraham's faith, we shall rejoice in looking forward to that day when the Saviour shall appear in glory, to the confusion of his enemies, and to complete the salvation of all who believe in him.

    The People's New Testament Commentary -- John 8:58:

    Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. A solemn and official declaration, preceded by "Verily, verily." The utterance is a remarkable one. It does not merely assert that he was before Abraham, but before Abraham was, I AM. It identifies with the I AM of the Old Testament. Divinity has no past tense, no future tense, but always the present.

    Robertson's Word Pictures Commentary -- John 8:58:

    Before Abraham was (prin Abraam genesthai). Usual idiom with prin in positive sentence with infinitive (second aorist middle of ginomai) and the accusative of general reference, before coming as to Abraham, before Abraham came into existence or was born.
    I am (egō eimi). Undoubtedly here Jesus claims eternal existence with the absolute phrase used of God. The contrast between genesthai (entrance into existence of Abraham) and eimi (timeless being) is complete. See the same contrast between en in Joh 1:1 and egeneto in Joh 1:14. See the contrast also in Psa 90:2 between God (ei, art) and the mountains (genēthēnai). See the same use of eimi in Joh 6:20; Joh 9:9; Joh 8:24, Joh 8:28; Joh 18:6.

    Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge Commentary -- John 8:58:

    I am: That our Lord by this expression asserted his divinity and eternal existence, as the great I AM, appears evident from the use of the present tense, instead of the past tense, from its being in answer to the Jews, who enquired whether he had seen Abraham, and from its being thus understood by the multitude, who were exasperated at it to such a degree that they took up stones to stone him. The ancient Jews not only believed that the Messiah was superior to and Lord of all the patriarchs, and even of angels, but that his celestial nature existed with God from whom it emanated, before the creation, and that the creation was effected by his ministry. Exo 3:14; Isa 43:13, Isa 44:6, Isa 44:8, Isa 46:9, Isa 48:12; Rev 1:8.

    Vincent's Word Studies Commentary -- John 8:58:

    Was, I am (γενέσθαι, ἐγώ εἰμι)
    It is important to observe the distinction between the two verbs. Abraham's life was under the conditions of time, and therefore had a temporal beginning. Hence, Abraham came into being, or was born (γενέσθαι). Jesus' life was from and to eternity. Hence the formula for absolute, timeless existence, I am (ἐγώ εἰμι). See on Joh 1:3; see on Joh 7:34.

    John Wesley's Explanatory Notes Commentary -- John 8:58:

    Before Abraham was I AM - Even from everlasting to everlasting. This is a direct answer to the objection of the Jews, and shows how much greater he was than Abraham.

    Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible -- John 8:58:

    Verily, verily - This is an expression used only in John. It is a strong affirmation denoting particularly the great importance of what was about to be affirmed. See the notes at Joh 3:5.

    Before Abraham was - Before Abraham lived.

    I am - The expression I am, though in the present tense, is clearly designed to refer to a past time. Thus, in Psa 90:2, From everlasting to everlasting thou art God. Applied to God, it denotes continued existence without respect to time, so far as he is concerned. We divide time into the past, the present, and the future. The expression, applied to God, denotes that he does not measure his existence in this manner, but that the word by which we express the present denotes his continued and unchanging existence. Hence, he assumes it as his name, I AM, and I AM that I AM, Exo 3:14. Compare Isa 44:6; Isa 47:8. There is a remarkable similarity between the expression employed by Jesus in this place and that used in Exodus to denote the name of God. The manner in which Jesus used it would strikingly suggest the application of the same language to God. The question here was about his pre-existence. The objection of the Jews was that he was not 50 years old, and could not, therefore, have seen Abraham. Jesus replied to that, that he existed before Abraham. As in his human nature he was not yet 50 years old, and could not, as a man, have existed before Abraham, this declaration must be referred to another nature; and the passage proves that, while he was a man, he was also endowed with another nature existing before Abraham, and to which he applied the term (familiar to the Jews as expressive of the existence of God) I AM; and this declaration corresponds to the affirmation of John Joh 1:1, that he was in the beginning with God, and was God. This affirmation of Jesus is one of the proofs on which John relies to prove that he was the Messiah Joh 20:31, to establish which was the design of writing this book.

    Adam Clarke's Commentary on the Bible -- John 8:58:

    Before Abraham was, I am - The following is a literal translation of Calmets note on this passage: - I am from all eternity. I have existed before all ages. You consider in me only the person who speaks to you, and who has appeared to you within a particular time. But besides this human nature, which ye think ye know, there is in me a Divine and eternal nature. Both, united, subsist together in my person. Abraham knew how to distinguish them. He adored me as his God; and desired me as his Savior. He has seen me in my eternity, and he predicted my coming into the world. On the same verse Bishop Pearce speaks as follows: - What Jesus here says relates (I think) to his existence antecedent to Abrahams days, and not to his having been the Christ appointed and foretold before that time; for, if Jesus had meant this, the answer I apprehend would not have been a pertinent one. He might have been appointed and foretold for the Christ; but if he had not had an existence before Abrahams days, neither could he have seen Abraham, (as, according to our English translation, the Jews suppose him to have said), nor could Abraham have seen him, as I suppose the Jews understood him to have said in the preceding verse, to which words of the Jews the words of Jesus here are intended as an answer.

    Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown Commentary -- John 8:58:

    Before Abraham was, I am--The words rendered "was" and "am" are quite different. The one clause means, "Abraham was brought into being"; the other, "I exist." The statement therefore is not that Christ came into existence before Abraham did (as Arians affirm is the meaning), but that He never came into being at all, but existed before Abraham had a being; in other words, existed before creation, or eternally (as Joh 1:1). In that sense the Jews plainly understood Him, since "then took they up stones to cast at Him," just as they had before done when they saw that He made Himself equal with God (Joh 5:18).

    John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible -- John 8:58:

    Jesus said unto them, verily, verily, I say unto you,.... Whether it will be believed or not, it is certainly fact:

    before Abraham was, I am; which is to be understood, not of his being in the purpose and decree of God, foreordained to sufferings, and to glory; for so all the elect of God may be said to be before Abraham, being chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world: or that Christ was man, before Abraham became the father of many nations; that is, before the calling of the Gentiles; for nothing is said in the text about his being the father of many nations; it is a bold and impudent addition to it: and besides, Abraham was made the father of many nations, as Ishmaelites, Israelites, Hagarenes, &c. long before the incarnation of Christ; yea, he was so from the very promise in Gen 17:5, which so runs, "a father of many nations have I made thee"; so that this appears a false sense of the text, which is to be understood of the deity, eternity, and immutability of Christ, and refers to the passage in Exo 3:14. "I am that I am--I am hath sent me unto you", the true Jehovah; and so Christ was before Abraham was in being, the everlasting I am, the eternal God, which is, and was, and is to come: he appeared in an human form to our first parents before Abraham was, and was manifested as the Mediator, Saviour, and living Redeemer, to whom all the patriarchs before Abraham looked, and by whom they were saved: he was concerned in the creation of all things out of nothing, as the efficient cause thereof; he was set up from everlasting as Mediator; and the covenant of grace was made with him, and the blessings and promises of it were put into his hands before the world began; the eternal election of men to everlasting life was made in him before the foundation of the world; and he had a glory with his Father before the world was; yea, from all eternity he was the Son of God, of the same nature with him, and equal to him; and his being of the same nature proves his eternity, as well as deity, that he is from everlasting to everlasting God; and is what he ever was, and will be what he now is: he is immutable, the same today, yesterday, and for ever; in his nature, love, grace, and fulness, he is the invariable and unchangeable I am.

    John Darby's Synopsis of the New Testament

    (John Chapter 8) Verse 58, it was God Himself, the Jehovah whom the fathers knew, that spoke.

    The Fourfold Gospel Commentary -- John 8:58-59:

    Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am.

    Verily, verily. See John 1:51.

    Before Abraham was born, I am. "I was" would simply have expressed priority, but "I am" marks timeless existence. It draws the contrast between the created and the uncreated, the temporal and the eternal. Compare Exodus 3:14.

    They took up stones therefore to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.

    They took up stones therefore to cast at him. Judging him to be a blasphemer.

    The 1599 Geneva Study Bible Commentary -- John 8:58:

    Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Christ, as he was God, was before Abraham: and he was the Lamb slain from the beginning of the world.

    Ray Stedman's Summary of John

    Then in his Gospel, John picks up seven great words of our Lord that prove that statement. He bases it all on the great name of God which was revealed to Moses at the burning bush. When Moses saw the bush burning and turned aside to learn its secret, God spoke to him from the bush and said, "I am who I am." (Ex. 3:14) That is God's nature. That is, "I am exactly what I am. I am nothing more. I am nothing less. I am the eternal I am." Seven times in his Gospel John picks this word up and uses it about our Lord. In fact, seven times these words came from our Lord's own lips. These constitute the proof that he is Deity.

    Does that amaze you? Have you thought that it was his miracles that proved he was God? No, no. They proved he was the Messiah, the Promised One. It is his words that prove he is God. Listen to them: "I am the bread of life." (6:35) That is, I am the sustainer of life, the One who satisfies life. "I am the light of the world" (8:12), the illuminator of life. "I am one [to borrow a phrase from Paul] in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge," the explainer of things, the one who casts light upon all mysteries and enigmas and solves them.

    "I am the door" (10:7), Jesus said; that is, the opportunity into life, the open way. Whenever you are confronted with a sense of lack, some hungering after something more, these are the words you need to hear. "I am the good shepherd" (10:11); that is, the guide of life, the only one properly equipped to take an individual and safely steer him through all the problems and chasms that yawn on every side, to lead him safely through life. ("The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.")

    Then, "I am the resurrection and the life." (11:25) That is, the power of life. Do you realize that resurrection power is the only kind that works when nothing else will? It works in the midst of death. Resurrection power is the only kind that needs no outside props. no process of learning. It does not need anything to initiate it, shore it up or bolster it in any way. When nothing else can be done, then it comes in and begins to act. "I am the resurrection and the life," Jesus says.

    "I am the way, the the truth, and the life." (14:6) That is, I am ultimate reality. I am the real substance behind all things. "I am the vine...apart from me, you can do nothing. "(15:5). I am the producer of fruitfulness, the source of fellowship and of identity and communion.

    Thus our Lord takes the great, revealing name of God and, linking it with these simple symbols, enables us to understand God. "The Word," John says, "became flesh and dwelt among us." He pitched his tent among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory of God become man. That is the tremendous theme of this book. There is not a greater theme in all the universe than the fact that when we stand in the presence of the humanity of Jesus we suddenly discover that, for the first time, we also stand in the presence of God. This is what God is like. This one who heals, loves, serves, waits, blesses, dies and rises again---this is God. That is what John reveals.

    The one word that he leaves with us, then, is that believing that he is the Messiah and that he is God, we may have life in his name. He is the key to life. Who does not want to live? Isn't that what we all want, young and old alike? What we are really seeking is the key to life. We want to be fulfilled. We want to see fulfilled all the possibilities and potential of our being which we sense lie deep inside. We want those deep yearnings satisfied. We want to be able to express ourselves. We want to be what we were designed and intended to be.

    Then listen! John says, "These [things] are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name."

    David Guzik's Study Guide for John:

    Jesus claims to be the I AM - the ego emi, the voice from the burning bush

    "The phrase harbours within itself the most authentic, the most audacious, and the most profound affirmation by Jesus of who He was" (Stauffer)

    Chuck Smith's Study Guide for John 8:58:

    I AM is the name of the eternal God.

    UnDisfellowshipped posted Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:07:00 GMT(8/30/2002)

    Post 36 of 2750
    Joined 8/11/2002

    The Jehovah's Witnesses and John 8:58 ( from http://www.CARM.org )

    "Jesus said to them: "Most truly I say to you, Before Abraham came into existence,
    I have been" (New World Translation of the Jehovah's Witnesses).

    The Jehovah's Witnesses deny that Jesus is God. So, when it comes to translating and interpreting Bible verses that show the deity of Jesus, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society will go to great lengths to support their false presupposition. Sometimes they will even translate verses in a way that is consistent with their belief system. In the Jehovah's Witness Bible, known as the New World Translation, John 8:58 is a verse that they have translated in a manner deliberately consistent with their theology. Following is the verse in context from the New American Standard Bible.

    In John 8:56-59 says:

    Verse 56: "'Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.'
    Verse 57: The Jews therefore said to Him, 'You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?'
    Verse 58: Jesus said to them, 'Truly truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.' Verse 59: Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple."

    (All Bible Quotes are from the New American Standard Bible)

    The issue at hand is the phrase "I am" in verse 58. The Jehovah's Witnesses have "translated" the Greek present tense ("I am") into the English perfect tense ("I have been") which is more consistent with their theological position that Jesus is not God in flesh. In the Greek, the words are "ego eimi." Literally, this is "I am." "Ego eimi" is the present active indicative first person singular (I am), not the perfect active indicative first person singular (I have been). It would seem that the natural and correct translation into the English is "I am." But the NWT does not translate this into the present tense. Why? I am firmly convinced it is because translating John 8:58 as "I am" would be too close to God identifying Himself as the "I am" in Exodus 3:14. Therefore, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society has opted for a different rendering.

    "And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you," (Exodus 3:14).

    But the issue is not settled so easily. Does the Bible ever legitimately translate the present tense 'ego eimi' into the English perfect tense "I have been"? Yes it does.

    In John 14:8-9 it says:

    Verse 8: "Philip said to Him, 'Lord show us the Father, and it is enough for us.'
    Verse 9: Jesus said to him, 'Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, 'Show us the Father?'"

    Where Jesus says, "I have been" is in the Greek present tense, 'ego eimi'. Literally, again, this is "I am." Here we have an example of the Greek present tense being translated into the English perfect tense. This is the very same thing the Watchtower organization claims is legitimate in John 8:58. Why is this translated into "I have been?" Quite simply because if we did not do this, then the English would say, "I am with you so long...." That is awkward in the English, so translators translate it as "Have I been so long with you...." It is legitimate to do this in some instances where it is warranted in order to make the English more readable and clear. But is it necessary to do this in John 8:58? I don't believe so -- unless your underlying presupposition is that Jesus is not God in flesh.

    Additionally, to make the issue even more complicated, there are some English Bible translations that render John 8:58 other than "I AM." For example, the Living Bible (1973, a paraphrase) says, "The absolute truth is that I was in existence before Abraham was ever born." The New Living Translations says, "I existed." The Bible in Worldwide English translates it as "I already was." The 1960, 1973 New American Standard Bible had a marginal rendering of "I have been." Because of this, the Jehovah's Witnesses will claim the New World Translation is, therefore, legitimate since other Bibles have translations other than "I AM" in John 8:58. But from what I have seen of these other translations, they are intended to be looser renderings of the Greek and therefore take more liberties in translation. The New American Standard Bible, for example, is intended to be as literal as possible as does the King James Version which both translate the verse as "I AM." The 1973 New American Standard Bible marginal quote above is just that, marginal and is not what they rendered into the English text. The preferred translation is "I am." Take Young's Literal Translation as another example. In John 8:58 it states, ". . . Before Abraham's coming -- I am."

    In fact, other translations render it as:

    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was born, I am," (American Standard Version).
    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am," (King James Version).
    Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am," (New American Standard Bible).
    I tell you the truth, Jesus answered, before Abraham was born, I am!" (New International Version).
    Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM," (New King James Version).
    Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am," (Revised Standard Version).
    "Truly, truly, before Abraham was, I am," (NLT).
    "Verily, verily I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am!" (21st Century King James Version).
    "Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham's coming -- I am,' (Young's Literal Translation).
    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am," (Darby).
    "Antes que Abraham fuese, yo soy," (Spanish) - uses "yo soy" which is "I am."
    "En vrit, en vrit, je vous le dis, avant qu'Abraham ft, je suis," (French) "je suis" which is "I am."

    Of course, the Jehovah's Witnesses will cite translations that have renderings other than the plain "I am" for John 8:58 and in so doing claim legitimacy. Unfortunately, since different translations do have different renderings, the debate will continue between the Jehovah's Witnesses and Christian apologists until the Lord Jesus returns.

    In the mean time, let's turn to page 467 of the 1969 Greek Interlinear used by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society:

    The Watchtower's own interlinear translates John 8:58 as "I am" even though in the New World Translation it renders it as "I have been." In this, they admit that the Greek is indeed, "I am," the present tense. They will not deny this. What they assert is that it should be translated into the English, "I have been." Should it or could it? If it should, then Greek scholars would echo the New World Translation rendition in the great majority of instances. But they do not. Essentially, the Watchtower organization is saying that all the translations that have "I am" as the rendering are wrong, that the "proper" translation is "I have been." In a footnote at the bottom of page 467 regarding John 8:58 in the New World Translation is this comment:

    "I have been = ego eimi after the a'orist infinitive clause prin' Abraam genesthai and hence properly rendered in the perfect tense. It is not the same as ho ohn', meaning "The Being" or "The I Am" at Exodus 3:14, LXX"

    The "LXX" is the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Hebrew Old Testament. The question is whether or not Jesus was quoting from the LXX or if He was simply translating the Hebrew. Again, Exodus 3:14 says, "And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you." The phrase "I AM WHO I AM" is rendered in the Greek LXX as "Ego eimi ho on." Literally, this is "I am the being one." Most Bibles translate the Hebrew from Exodus 3:14 as "I am" -- the present tense as did the Hebrew translators of the LXX. The LXX also has it in the present tense which is what the Greek syntax states. Jesus uses the present tense in John 8:58.

    In spite of some of the translations regarding John 8:58, I do not believe the New World Translation's version of John 8:58 is warranted for three reasons: First, it purports to "transmit his [God] thoughts and declarations as accurately as possible." (New World Translation, 1961, page 5.) I do not believe this is the case at all. Rather, I see the Watchtower's bias against Jesus' divinity overtaking this verse and altering it as it has done in other verses such as Heb. 1:8 and Col. 1:15-17. Second, the most literal translations such as the New American Standard Bible, the New International Version, and the King James Version do not render this verse as "I have been" but as "I AM." And, third, the context of the verse does not support the Jehovah's Witnesses' position.

    It isn't the English, but the Greek that upset the Pharisees:

    John 8:56-59:

    Verse 56: "'Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.'
    Verse 57: The Jews therefore said to Him, 'You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?'
    Verse 58: Jesus said to them, 'Truly truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'
    Verse 59: Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple."

    The Pharisees didn't speak English. They spoke Hebrew and Greek. In the Greek text, Jesus uses the present tense. It was this Greek present tense (I am) that upset the Pharisees so much, not the perfect tense (I have been).

    If Jesus were really saying to the Jews, "I have been," then why would the Pharisees want to kill him (v. 59)? Since blasphemy, or calling yourself God, was punishable by death, isn't this a confirmation that Jesus was saying "I am" and that the Jew's understood what he was saying? Absolutely! That is why the best translation is simply, "I am." (I should note that, most probably Jesus spoke to the Pharisees in Aramaic, a Hebrew Dialect. It is possible He spoke to them in Greek. But, since all we have is the New Testament Greek and no Aramaic writings of the New Testament, we must work from what the Greek says)

    I also need to mention that in Mark 14:62-64, where Jesus answered the High Priest who said, "Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses? Ye have heard the blasphemy. . ."

    Jesus responded with "I am" which provoked the authorities and prompted them to seek death. This is particularly revealing when we compare John 10:34 where the Pharisees want to kill Jesus because they said He was making Himself equal to God. The phrase, "I AM" in these contexts would surely imply that.

    Undoubtedly, Jesus knew the difference in the Greek between "I am" and "I have been." Jesus did not use the form "I have been" in the Greek, but used the form "I am." It is the Greek, not the English that the Pharisees were upset about.

    At this point, many of the Jehovah's Witnesses assert that by the time Jesus said, "Before Abraham was I have been" (New World Translation), they had already been thoroughly agitated by Jesus and, basically, snapped and tried to kill Him at this final comment. Furthermore, the Jehovah's Witnesses deny that Jesus was claiming the divine title of Exodus 3:14 where God said to Moses, "I am that I am." But which do you think would have upset the Pharisees more, saying "Before Abraham was, I am" or Before Abraham was, I have been"? Obviously, the former would be more upsetting and that is exactly the phrase that Jesus used.

    If Jesus wanted to avoid any confusion with the Pharisees, why didn't He use one of the past tenses? Certainly he must have known that saying "Before Abraham was, I am" to the Pharisees would cause some problems. And it did. The aorist (I was), the perfect (I have been), and the pluperfect (I had been) all deal with the past, yet Jesus chose to deliberately use the present tense "I am." He used a past tense verb when describing Abraham ("before Abraham was..."), but a present tense verb when describing Himself ("I am"). He deliberately brought attention to the words, "I am." The Pharisees understood this and was indeed the last straw for them.

    Conclusion

    The Jehovah's Witnesses have spent a great deal of time developing and crafting linguistic arguments to favor their translation of John 8:58. Wading through their arguments dealing with Greek tenses, verb forms, and grammar rules is beyond the scope of this paper. However, it is sufficient to mention that the Jehovah's Witnesses have a theological bias against the deity of Christ. Their translation of John 8:58 and their attempts to justify this translation are directly related to their presuppositions against Christ and his deity.

    The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society teaches its members to deny the deity of Christ. From this base, any and all affirmations to Jesus' deity will be undermined in whatever way possible. John 8:58 is just another example of this bias.

    Navigator posted Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:31:00 GMT(8/30/2002)

    Post 27 of 860
    Joined 6/5/2002
    But again, the Father see heart not knowledge. There are a lot of guys more inteligent than us who try to understand this points in the bible and were unable to explain completed clear to us. Don't worry much about this topic. Try to be a better person and to develop a relationship with the Father.

    .Ginosko has it right!

    Jesus's claim to have existed before Abraham may not be so remarkable as it seems. The belief in reincarnation was widely held among the Jewish people of that day. Of course the early Christian church stamped out that belief as quickly as possible since it took away some of their power and authority. The statement by Jesus may have simply been a claim to prior existence. I don't agree that the disciples prayed to Jesus as God. The use of the term Lord has been badly abused by the various translators and is much influenced by cultural bias. The title Lord is still widely used in the U.K. today. I don't think anyone believes that their local "gentry" is God in their human incarnation. That having been said, we should remember that we are all created in the image and likeness of God out of "God Stuff". The difference between us and Jesus is that he remembered who he was and where he came from. Could it be that he didn't come to die for our sins, but to remind us who we are and to demonstrate that death could be overcome?

    UnDisfellowshipped posted Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:50:00 GMT(8/30/2002)

    Post 37 of 2750
    Joined 8/11/2002

    Here are Links to more information about Jesus Christ using "I AM":

    http://www.carm.org/jw/john8-10.htm

    http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-texts-john8-58.htm

    http://www.watchman.org/jw/john8_58.pdf

    http://answering-islam.org/Shamoun/christology.htm

    http://www.bbie.org/WrestedScriptures/B08Trinity/John8v58.html

    http://users.eggconnect.net/noddy3/John%20858.htm

    http://home.attbi.com/~neirr/egoeimi.htm

    http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/archives/96-08/0092.html

    http://www.serve.com/larryi/apologetics/aptopic11-8-98.html

    http://bismikaallahuma.org/Bible/Commentary/i-am.htm

    http://www.reachtheworldforjesus.homestead.com/CDTRINITYJESUSIAM.html

    http://answering-islam.org/Trinity/table1.html

    http://hector3000.future.easyspace.com/egweimi.htm

    http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/j4j-2000/html/reflib/tri128.html

    http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek/archives/96-08/0327.html

    http://www.cresourcei.org/IAM.html

    http://www.caic.org.au/jws/theology/jon8-58.htm

    http://hector3000.future.easyspace.com/dyland2.htm

    http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/wam.html

    http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/arch/sbrandt/iam.htm

    http://www.cornerstonechurchonline.com/biblestudies/I%20AM.htm

    http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/1053/1242.html

    http://www.answering-christianity.com/iam.htm

    http://bismikaallahuma.org/Bible/Commentary/i-am2.htm

    http://www.pblcoc.org/jw-3.htm

    http://www.holyscriptures.com/scan4.htm

    http://home.golden.net/~rebeccaj/docs/jesusgod.txt

    http://www.mostmerciful.com/messiah.html

    http://www.isnet.org/~djoko/Offsites/Religions/Xtianity/CARM/john858.htm

    http://reslight.addr.com/iam.html

    http://www.frontiernet.net/~bcmmin/jesusjeh.htm

    Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 30 August 2002 6:51:8

    M JosephMalik posted Fri, 30 Aug 2002 13:36:00 GMT(8/30/2002)

    Post 137 of 1467
    Joined 5/2/2002

    Undisfellowshipped,

    As I said in the beginning your information it all a waste of time. Nothing that you have said, not all the commentaries or all the references prove your point. After all they are written by Trinitarians and as bad as the Watchtower when it comes to explaining such texts. And their explanations are silly. A child should be able so see through them.

    I showed you the question and the answer to it. That is the context the direct statement against which the phrase must be understood. Nothing you said or shown refutes this simple fact. Now if you would like to deal with it then fine. But the references you used do not do that and are of no value whatever.

    Joseph

    M JosephMalik posted Fri, 30 Aug 2002 13:52:00 GMT(8/30/2002)

    Post 138 of 1467
    Joined 5/2/2002

    Navigator,

    Calling Jesus our God is not a problem. This term is not a name and can be used for anyone in authority, like a ruler or King. That is something that Trinitarians do NOT want you to know. They keep saying that this makes two Gods when the context determines what is said or meant. Context is something not grasped by many as it is a quality in the text that must be discerned. And the deity of Christ does not mean the Trinity of Christ. The word deity simply does not mean what they say it does. Will someone please show us all the scriptural definition of Deity. Show the verses and all. Show why Deity means trinity? I have tried to get such a definition for years now and still no one has shown me one. Trinitarian use of Deity is a LIE pure and simple. The present dual nature of the Christ is something no one wants to understand and Trinitarians attempt to deny but it is there in scripture. This dual nature will be maintained at least until the final test is completed. The earthly Kingdom and Rule by Christ is something that the WT denies but it is there in scripture for all to read. Such battles rage on and on because it is not reason but the view of organizations that rule the Faith at present.

    Joseph

    M TR posted Fri, 30 Aug 2002 14:27:00 GMT(8/30/2002)

    Post 3398 of 3829
    Joined 9/18/2000

    "I Am", by Static X totally rocks.

    TR

    F teenyuck posted Fri, 30 Aug 2002 14:35:00 GMT(8/30/2002)

    Post 1241 of 2868
    Joined 9/26/2001

    I AM WHO I AM, said SAM I AM....wasn't that Dr. Seuss? Jesus

    bchamber posted Mon, 02 Sep 2002 01:52:00 GMT(9/2/2002)

    Post 20 of 29
    Joined 8/20/2002

    Bible Museum and Biblical Research Foundation

    research87@yahoo.com

    TRANSLATION COMPARISON

    JOHN 8:58

    Does John 8:58 show identity or pre-existence? The following translations and versions show pre-exist. Noticed that many of these translations are done by translation committees. Are they all wrong? Impossible.

    1) New American Standard Version N.T. 1963) "Jesus said to them, truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born 2a , I am." Note: 2 or, I have been a comp. John 17:5, 24

    2) Goodspeed, E. N.T. (1923) "Jesus said to them, I tell you, I existed before Abraham was born."

    3) Williams, C.B. N.T. (1950) "Then Jesus said to them, I most solemnly say to you, I existed before Abraham was born."

    4) Lamsa, G.M. N.T. (1940) "Jesus said to them, truly. truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I was."

    5) Parker, P.G. Clarified N.T. "Jesus answered, before Abraham existed, I existed."

    6) Twentieth Century N.T. (1904) "In truth I tell you, replied Jesus; before Abraham existed, I was."

    7) The Living N.T. (paraphrased) (1967) "Jesus: The absolute truth is that I was in existence before Abraham was ever born."

    8) Kleist - Lilly N.T. (1956) Catholic "I tell you the plain truth. replied Jesus, I am here - and I was before Abraham."

    9) Cotton Patch Version (1970) "To this Jesus replied, I existed before Abraham was born."

    10) Ledyard, G.H. New Life Testament (1969) "Jesus said to them, for sure I tell you, before Abraham was born, I was and sum and always will be."

    11) Dr. E.C. Dymond N.T. (1972) "Yes, indeed!; said Jesus: He saw me in prospect. The fact is, that long before Abraham was conceived in his mothers womb, that individual who I now am had been conceived in Gods mind: He had completed the plan and specifications, so to speak, and therefore He was able to give Abraham a mental preview of me".

    12) Beck, W.F. N.T. (1967) "I tell you the truth, Jesus told them, I was before Abraham."

    13) Good News for the World (1969) "Jesus answer, I tell you the truth. I already was before Abraham was born."

    14) Wade, G.W. Documents of the N.T. (1934) "Jesus said to them, in very truth I tell you, before Abraham came into being, I have existed. "

    15) Noli, M.F.S. N.T. (1961) "Jesus answered them: Well, well, I tell you, I existed before Abraham was born."

    16) Greber, J. N.T. (1937) "I am speaking the truth, Jesus answered, I am older than Abraham."

    17) Swann, G. N.T. (1947) "Jesus said to them, verily, verily I say unto you, I existed before Abraham was born".

    18) Schonfield, H.J. Authentic N.T. (1956) "Jesus told them, I tell you for a positive fact, I existed before Abraham was born."

    19) Murdock, J. N.T. Syriac Peshitto Version (1893) "Jesus said to them, verily, verily, I say to you, that before Abraham existed, I was."

    20) Noyes, G.R. N.T. (1878) "Jesus said to them, truly, truly do I say to you, from before Abraham was, I have been."

    21) Hanson, J.W. New Covenant (1884) "Jesus said to them, truly, truly, I say to you, I am before Abraham was born."

    22) Moffatt, J. N.T. (1950) "Truly, truly I tell you!, said Jesus, I have existed before Abraham was born."

    13) Moffatt, J. A Bible, a New Translation (1926) "I existed before Abraham was born."

    23) Kraeling, E.G. Four Gospels (1962) "With another amen-saying, Jesus declares to them that before Abraham was, He (Jesus) is (hint of His preexistence) ."

    24) Lewis, A.S. Four Gospels (Sinaitic Palimpsest) "He said unto them, verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I have been."

    25) New World Translation "Jesus said to them: Most truly I say to you, before Abraham came into existence, I have been."

    26) Wakefield, G. N.T. (1795) "Jesus said unto them: Verily verily I say unto you, before Abraham was born, I am He."

    27) International Bible Translators 1981 "Jesus said to them, I am telling the truth: I was alive before Abraham was born!"

    28) Webster, N. The Holy Bible (1833) "Jesus said to them, verily, verily, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."

    29) Sharpe, S. The New Testament (1840) "I was before Abraham."

    30) The Simple English Bible New Testament 1978) "I was alive before Abraham was born."

    31) Gaus A. The Unvarnished New Testament (1991) "I have already been."

    32) Miller, R.J. (Editor) The Complete Gospels (1992) "I existed"

    33) New Living Translation Holy Bible (1996) "I existed before Abraham was even born."

    34) The Book, New Testament "The absolute truth is that I existed before Abraham was ever born."

    35) Lattimore, Richmond The Four Gospels and Revelation (1979) "Truly, truly I tell you, I am from before Abraham was born."

    36) Contemporary English Version New Testament (1991) "I tell you, that even before Abraham was, I was, and I am."

    37) Burkitt, F. C. The Curetonian Version of the Four Gospels (1904) "Before Abraham came to be, I was."

    38) Horner, G.W. The Coptic Version of the New Testament in the Southern Dialect (1911) "Before Abraham became, I, I am being."

    39) Christianson, C. J. The Concise Gospel and the Acts (1973) "I existed even before Abraham was born."

    40) Nida A Translators Handbook to the Gospel of John "Before Abraham existed, I existed, or I have existed."

    Edited by - bchamber on 1 September 2002 21:59:59

    UnDisfellowshipped posted Mon, 02 Sep 2002 03:46:00 GMT(9/2/2002)

    Post 47 of 2750
    Joined 8/11/2002

    Thanks for posting that bchamber.

    I believe you may be right, Jesus could have simply meant that He existed before Abraham.

    I posted this info because, while studying the Scriptures, I thought it was interesting that the "I AM WHO I AM" in Exodus and the "I AM" statements by Jesus in the Book of John seemed so similar.

    I will be posting other Threads soon about my personal studies and beliefs about Christ Jesus.

    At least, this Thread can be a Resource Page for those who are curious about the "I AM" Statements.

    Here are a few other Bible Translations' Versions of John 8:58:

    King James Version -- John 8:58: Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

    International Standard Version -- John 8:58: Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly I tell you, before there was an Abraham, I am!"

    Literal Translation of the Holy Bible -- John 8:58: Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came to be, I AM!

    Modern King James Version -- John 8:58: Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I AM!

    Revised Standard Version -- John 8:58: Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."

    1833 Webster Bible -- John 8:58: Jesus said to them, Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham was, I am.

    1912 Weymouth New Testament -- John 8:58: "In most solemn truth," answered Jesus, "I tell you that before Abraham came into existence, I am."

    1898 Young's Literal Translation -- John 8:58: Jesus said to them, `Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham's coming--I am;'

    World English Bible -- John 8:58: Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I tell you, before Abraham came into existence, I AM."

    Analytical-Literal Translation -- John 8:58: Jesus said to them, "Most positively, I say to you*, before Abraham came to be, _I_ am!"

    1965 Bible in Basic English -- John 8:58: Jesus said to them, Truly I say to you, Before Abraham came into being, I am.

    Contemporary English Version -- John 8:58: Jesus answered, "I tell you for certain that even before Abraham was, I was, and I am."

    1889 Darby Bible -- John 8:58: Jesus said to them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

    1899 Douay-Rheims Bible -- John 8:58: Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham was made, I AM.

    Good News Bible -- John 8:58: "I am telling you the truth," Jesus replied. "Before Abraham was born, 'I Am'."

    God's Word Translation -- John 8:58: Jesus told them, "I can guarantee this truth: Before Abraham was ever born, I am."

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