Comments Not Said at the WTS 8/18/02

July 1, 2002 WT Study for Week of August 12 to 18, 2002

Thoughts from a reader (reader comments in parentheses)

JEHOVAHS GLORY SHINES ON HIS PEOPLE (not organization?)

Paragraph 1

"When Jehovahs people are faithful, he cares for them, makes them fruitful and protects them." (So when the numbers decrease and monetary support drops, we can safely assume that they are not faithful?)

Paragraph 2

"Of course, in a world immersed in darkness, those who live with godly devotion will meet opposition. (2 Timothy 3:12) (Persecution proves to JWs that they are doing the right thing and God is on their side so they invite and expect persecution.)

"Opposition takes many forms. In some lands, opposers try to limit (like in Mexico when they couldnt pray or sing openly?) or ban the worship that sincere (WTS rarely puts the word Christian in a publication without qualifying it with true, sincere, genuine, real) Christians render to Jehovah."

"In others, fanatics (in the country of Georgia) physically assault Jehovahs worshippers and burn their property." (Of course, they dont mention that other religions are also being persecuted in that country.)

Blessed Beyond Expectation

Paragraph 3

"The truth is (get ready now folks) that during the last days of this system, Jehovah has blessed his people (not organization?) beyond their expectations (all the Bible Students going to heaven in 1914 and Armageddon ridding the earth of Gods enemies wasnt enough, no, that was in 1925, no, that was in 1975)Especially has he progressively (thats right folks be prepared for a history lesson in how the light gets brighter) beautified his place of worship and those within who bear his name (those who do not bear his name are thus not in his temple)."

Paragraph 4

(The WTS no longer has to prove prophecies have been fulfilled, they just quote three from the Bible and conclude) "As these prophecies have been fulfilled in our day, Jehovahs house has been beautified before our very eyes." (And if you cant see it you must be "apostate" (in the Church Ladys best intonation)

Paragraph 5

(1919 is a date brought out many times in the publication. JFR always was talking about Jesus coming to the temple to inspect his followers and approving of them although they were still celebrating birthdays, Christmas, using the cross, had a fuzzy idea about neutrality, and only a small group were actually preaching door to door.) Toward the end of the first world war, "the Israel of God" did indeed experience a period of desolationThen, in 1919, Jehovah revived his anointed servants." (We can see why 1914 cannot be changed because then the proof that God selected them out of all those claiming to serve Christ cannot happen in 1919.)

Paragraph 6

(Phrase "true Christians" in the question; notice what are the valuable resources the WTS uses.) "Freely given financial contributions.Wise use of modern technology" (Would that be computers and the Internet?)

Organization Progress (Vomit Alert!)

Paragraph 7

"Jehovahhas blessed them with organizational advancement." (A little advancement in Bible understanding might be better.)

"The Israel of God (think GB here since the general anointed are never consulted) has experienced ongoing (another way to say progressively) organizational improvement throughout the last days."

Paragraph 8

"Before 1919 (before God had cleansed the anointed; note this is the Russell period), congregations of Gods people were administered by elders and deacons, all of whom were democratically elected by members of the congregation." (Thus not controlled by a central body; where was the GB then?)

"Starting in 1919 (JFR had to start consolidating his power; his becoming president was not due to overwhelming support of the directors or Russell; those dissenting directors had friends among the elders in the congregations.) "the faithful and discreet slave" (which they still believed was CTR) appointed a service director (did CTR do that from the grave?) to supervise field service activities (which JFR never participated in himself)."

"However, in many congregations that arrangement did not work out so well because some elective elders did not fully support the evangelizing work." (I would like to have been a mouse in the corner and hear what those elders said.)"

"Hence, in 1932 (13 years later? Those elders must have had some clout), congregations were instructed to discontinue the electing of elders and deacons. Instead, they were to elect men to serve on a service committee (I guess they werent elders) along with the service director.a big improvement (no comment as to what really improved).

Paragraph 9

"In 1938 (the screw tightens), congregations around the world resolved to accept an improved arrangement, one that was more in harmony with Scriptural precedents (that is controlled by a central body)(congregations that did not were disbanded). Congregation administration was entrusted to a company servant (congregation servant, presiding overseer), and other servants, all appointed under the oversight of the faithful and discreet slave (read GB). No more elections! (but arent prospective elders put before the body of elders who vote on whether to submit their names to the WTS who make sure the paperwork is done and ship it back?)

Paragraph 10

"Since then progress has continued. For example, in 1972 it was seen that having congregations overseen by a cooperating body of theocratically appointed elders, with no one elder exercising authority (those company servants ruled with an iron fist and worse yet did not listen to the GB like they should) over the rest"

"About 2 years ago (why no exact year like all the other changes?) there was another step forward (get rid of the GB control and give Uncle Ted more control). An adjustment (clarification is another word) was made in the directorship of certain legal corporations, making it possible for the Governing Body (find that word in the Bible) to concentrate more fully (another lovely buzz word) on the spiritual interests of Gods people rather than being distracted by day-to-day legal matters (I wonder why that is becoming a distractionhere is where an increase has not been a blessing.)

Paragraph 11

"Who is behind these progressive changes? None other than Jehovah God." (Did I see any proof offered here?)

Paragraph 12

"True (yes again) Christians look intently to Jehovah for instruction and guidance (not the FDS or GB?!!)Jehovahs spirit operates upon his people (all of them not just the anointed?)part of the fruitage is peacethe resulting peaceableness of Jehovahs people (not his organization?) makes them a refreshing oasisbased on the love that true (yes again) Christians have for one another is a foretaste of new world living (why I do not want to live in paradise if these loving ones are there).

Jehovahs Light Will Continue to Shine (assumes it already is on the WTS)

Paragraph 13

"Once the mourning of the spiritual exiles came to a completion in 1919 (theres that date again), Jehovahs light began to shine upon them. More than 80 years later.(why dont they just say 83 years) still enjoying Jehovahs favor."

Paragraph 14

"In 1919 (yes again) when anointed Christians were restored to activity, they were an unusual group of people. In a decidedly sinful world, they had been declared unrighteousspiritual paradise (phrase not used until 1958).

Paragraph 15

"All members of that spiritual nationdeclares them righteous as sons and deals with them as if they were perfect. (There it is in print the anointed on earth are perfect.)

"Their other sheep companionsdeclared righteous as friends. (Anointed on earth are sons of God and perfect and the other sheep are only friendshmmm.)

The Increase Continues

Paragraph 16

"When anointed Christians were restored to activity in 1919 (once again), they were few in numbertruly a little one.increasing numbersspiritual paradisesix million dedicated foreignersmore populous than many of the worlds sovereign states." (Now the great crowd are foreigners!)

Paragraph 17

"main points of Isaiah chapter 60so far in advance Jehovah knew that his people would go into spiritual exile and then be restored (read 1919), Jehovah foresaw the great increase (I can hardly wait for 2002 statistics) in the numbers.

Pictures in this article

Page 15

"In the face of violent opposition, Jehovah beautifies his people with salvation" caption

A young Indian woman being baptized

A beaten man in bed

A woman and a man in concentration garb

Page 16

"Gods people use valuable resources from the nations to advance pure worship"

A young black girl putting money in a contribution box

A young white woman using a sophisticated computer and scanner

Printing presses and paper

WTS publications in many languages (not a Bible to be seen though)

Page 17

"Jehovah has blessed his people with organizational advancement and peace"

Two black men (gray in their hair) seated at table, one shaking hands with a younger Asian man, 2 white men standing (only the elders know what really happens, yelling and name-calling when the camera is gone)

 

Edited by - Blondie on 18 August 2002 10:35:55

BLONDIE, That was great!  Could you please study my Wts. every week for me so that I can get the true Bible-based understanding?

Thanks, minimus.  This is what I am thinking but will never get to say, except here.  Do you still have to sit through this tripe?

"No more elections!"

This is what I would have continued to believe were it not for my need to consult independent resources (read "apostate material") for the truth about "The Truth". 

And so I will take this opportunity to thank the many I have met here on the board and in person who have shared their experiences about what the Society REALLY does behind closed doors with a 'sister' who had no knowledge at all of procedures or policy on a wide variety of issues until coming to sites like these.

Now that I know the bickering, politics, hard-heartedness, arrogance of the WT leaders beginning at the very top (where the most righteous and humblest should be found) and trickling down to the local elder body and those ministerial servants jockeying for rank, I am extremely happy to declare myself

outnfree

I get the pleasure of sitting through it every week.  I find myself repeating over and over,

 And those good fruits would be...

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, fidelity, meekness, self-control: against such things there is no law.(Galatians 5:22, 23 Darby)

Through all of that long-winded talk of the beauty of the organization, no evidence of the above?  Who cares about the reorganization at HQ?  How did it directly bless the people?

hey blondie, yeah, but I'm doing it less and less. You had some of the same comments I had on my margin.

Outnfree, it is hard for women, especially those with no male members in the higher echelons.  I have had many family members with direct access to the shenigans at the elder level in many congregations.  All you need is one elder's wife with loose lips with a husband who can't keep a secret to find out what really happens.  Of course, it will be denied publicly.

Yes, jgnat, it is hard to sit through it and know very few are doing it.  Usually, the ones that do show real Christian love are considered the low ones with no socially redeemable attributes.

James 2
¹⁵   Perhaps a brother or a sister needs clothes and has no food.
¹⁶   Perhaps one of you says to them, `God bless you. Be warm. Eat all you want.' But what good is that if you do not give them what they need for their bodies?

That's eerie, minimus!

Edited by - Blondie on 18 August 2002 9:19:51

btw, if ALL the organizational arrangements came right from Jehovah, as the study article says, then why did it have to be refined?

minimus, that's because the GB thought it was God talking to them and it was the sound of their own voices.

Actually I have some personal favorites of "refinements"

Superior authorities 

1879-1929 secular governments

1929-1962 Jehovah and Jesus Christ

1962-present  secular governments

Sodom and Gomorrah executed resurrected

1879  will be

1952  will not be

1965  will be

1982  will be (Paradise book), revision 1989 will not be

Looks like the writing committee was confused:

1988  will not be (Questions from Readers)

1988  will not be  Revelation book

1988  will be (Insight book)

Transplants permitted

1879-1967 yes

1967-1980 no

1980 to present yes 

 

 

Edited by - Blondie on 18 August 2002 18:37:32

I thought the same on many of these points Blondie.

I thought it interesting that the "faithful slave" was given credit, in the early part of the century, when

they had no idea who the  the class was. I thought it was awesome of Isaiah to prophecy about

gold and copper---and how this was exactly fulfilled in adujustment w/elders. Isn't it ashame that

Jehovah has oversight of the congergation..but the Almighty couldnt get the elder arrangement right

the first few times. After all, if his Holy Spirit is w/ the congergation..I wouldnt think it

mattered how the elders are appointed..they are under Gods spirit.....But wait...a change is made....

no more voting on the elders..Jehovah hates voting....Instead we will wait until the

circuit overseer comes around and we'll take a vote...umm .. I mean recommendation..by the elder body.

Edited by - mikemusto on 18 August 2002 19:2:1

Mike, you'll find it like that at every meeting if you pay attention and know the history of the WTS.  Most JWs don't read much, let alone study.  One brother said, "If it is the Watchtower, that is good enough for me."  Duh!  The meetings are aptly named, congregation BOOK study and WATCHTOWER study because the Bible is not studied.  I wonder how many long-time JWs could name all 66 books of the Bible (not necessarily in order)?  How many would know if Abel or Cain is the oldest?  How many would know if Adam and Eve had more children and if the Bible records any names?  How many would know the names of Noah's wife (that's a trick question)? 

Look in the older magazines and see that whole quotations of the Bible take up a paragraph.  Nowadays, a little clip of the scripture is all that makes it to the paragraph, the part the writing crew want to emphasize.

Well, I can hardly wait till next Sunday.  I will try to present a pithy presentation with comments guaranteed not to be used at the meeting.

I will be there next Sunday too......unless I get free porn,or something on my T.V. than I will be home.

excellent post Blondie

... saves us all going to the WT meeting !

I thought the added comments (the reality check) were spot on.

Minimus, I have been helping my honey underline his copy (with neat color coordinated pens).  I hadn't even thought about it.  I should get my own to mark up in the margins!  Great idea!

 

Thanks, Simon.  I'm glad you and your family had a good visit with your father.  I like Canada a lot myself but then I live in the US which is similar to Canada but we don't put 'eh' on the end of our sentences and Canadians aren't pompous.  People in the US use the phrase "you know" a lot and of course we are "proud to be Americans" (as if Canadians aren't Americans!)  I'll try not to bore everybody and not whip up too many bad memories.  I get my digs in at the meetings when I can in my nice submissive, sisterly way.

I have added to my knowledge of reality by coming to this board.  I would like to tell more of my story (my family has a Feuerbacher connection but before Alan was born) but I am not ready to ease on down the road.  (Where has biblexaminer been lately anyway?)

Edited by - Blondie on 18 August 2002 19:42:7

"How many would know the names of Noah's wife (that's a trick question)? "

 

Ummm...f ARK el?

 

peace,

somebody

hey blondie & MIKE Musto, I just came back from my mom's house and discussed how the refinements of the elder arrangement was foretold in the Bible and yet how Jehovah couldn't even get it right the first time. After I browbeat my poor mother she had to agree that it really didn't seem to make sense.....I just keep trying, since I love my mom.

blondie,

 

 

Now there is something to think about! 

 

After making my joking comment, I have the article and will read it through tonight and give you my thoughts on it, and what I see.  I have the feeling the same thoughts that crossed your mind, will cross mine.

((((((((minimus)))))))))

I'm glad you keep trying, despite the frustration you must feel at times.

 

peace,

somebody

Edited by - somebody on 18 August 2002 21:1:0

minimus, my mother has been not been happy about the WTS for years but her whole family are JWs.  She just complains a lot.  Growing up in an abusive family conditions you to accept the spiritual abuse at the KH.  She grew up in an abusive family and married an abuser.  So abuse is all she has known.

somebody (you're zev's sweetie and he's yours, right?) .  Yes that phrase jumped at me.  I haven't seen it phrased quite that way before.  I did take a philosophy 101 course and it helped me see that the WTS publications do not present proper arguments if any for their conclusions.  But then blind obedience is required.  People who ask questions no matter how innocent are viewed suspiciously.  Ergo, my comments will never be heard at the WT study.  I worry that my thinking will be infected again because I still have to go, but actually it's as if I am more in tune to the semantics and word twisting and the lapse of memory of the writers.  It actually makes the time less boring as I mentally edit what is said.

Thanks, blondie, this WAS reaaaaaally good, and a great idea for a weekly thread (if you're up to that). I thoroughly enjoyed it AND your well-placed interpretations for our humorous enlightenment. (Did you type all that out? Lotsa typing!) Makes me miss getting the Watchtowers in the mail (since they cut us off from mail delivery of the mags, I'm SOL).

What caught my eye about that paragraph was the first two words, ALL MEMBERS... declare them righteous ... and perfect. NOT! When we were dubs and when we did [declare them righteous] it was only because THEY TOLD US TO, not because we thought of it ourselves. Nothing like brainwashing a group by convincing them they have declared you(GB) righteous!

OutnFree (I think) wrote:

That comment brought to mind a short post I saw the other day on the Silent Lambs Guestbook which merely read: "A Fish Rots From The Head Down." -- LOLOL!

jgnat wrote:

Now that you mention it, when did anything THEY SAY is "so wonderful" have much bearing at the lower levels where WE sat? (no more coffee being served at the conventions). They are always just changing things for their own benefit or to save money. Reorganization at HQ, rather than a spiritual blessing or whatever, was in preparation for covering their legal butts and giving more power to the attorneys for the slam-dunk-wars that were then (and now) on the horizon.

blondie wrote:

What a relevation to see that in print and have it finally come alive! I mean, I always KNEW that, but somehow it never "registered" back then quite the way it does now seeing it in your post. Now it is so OBVIOUS, how did I ever miss it?

blondie also asked:

What's the trick answer? :-) I have no idea, but that f ARK el was cute!

LOL! on your last comment, blondie: "It actually makes the time less boring as I mentally edit what is said."

See ya here next week for another invigorating lesson in "Comments Not Said at the WT Study." Too funny!

Grits