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" Jehovah's Witnesses " were NOT Jonadabs!!??!?

    DATA-DOG posted Mon, 25 Nov 2013 21:44:15 GMT(11/25/2013)

    Post 3560 of 4908
    Joined 6/21/2012

    2/15/1966 WT

    Identifying the Present-Day Beneficiaries

    15) In speaking of the marking work, page 111 of Vindication said that “this work of giving the testimony is not for the purpose of converting the people of the world and bringing them into some organization, but it is to make known the fact that those who desire to flee from the wicked organization of Christendom may do so and declare themselves on the Lord’s side, and thus be in line to be brought through the time of trouble, when the slaughtering begins.” Thus no real gathering and organizing of these marked ones, the “other sheep,” was encouraged, even in the year 1931, when the remnant of the 144,000 spiritual Israelites embraced the name “Jehovah’s witnesses."

    DISCERNING THE GREAT CROWD [ additions mine ]

    21) Thus this secondary class of spirit-begotten spiritual Israelites [Jehovah's Witnesses, aka Great Crowd] was still diverting the attention of the remnant [ those specifically ruling I guess] late in 1934 and was taking a place of greater importance than the Jonadabs or earthly “other sheep” class, who were to be marked in their foreheads. (Ezek. 9:4) So these marked ones were not specifically invited to attend the celebration of the Lord’s Supper on Nisan 14, 1935. 22) However, great joy was now near for the Jonadab company or “other sheep.” A five-day general convention of Jehovah’s witnesses was announced. Beginning with the April 1, 1935, issue of The Watchtower the announcements thereof said: “Again The Watchtower reminds its readers that a convention of Jehovah’s witnesses and Jonadabs will be held at Washington, D.C., beginning May 30 and ending June 3, 1935. It is hoped that many of the remnant and the Jonadabs may find it convenient to attend the convention. Heretofore not many Jonadabs have had the privilege of attending a convention, and the convention at Washington may be a real comfort and benefit to them.” (Page 98) “This is a service convention, and it is expected that all the remnant and the Jonadabs will participate in the service.”—Page 110.

    Am I the only one who was raised to believe that the adoption of the name " Jehovah's Witnesses " was directly tied to the timing of the nu-light concerning the Great Crowd of [ other sheep ]??? Isn't that how it is presented? In other words, the Bible Sudents all thought they were going to heaven. Then there was confusion. Thankfully, the spirit-directed Rutherford figured it all out... Then the Great Crowd was discerned to be the other sheep and the name JW was adopted. Doesn't the WTBTS present it that way? Clearly " Jehovah's Witnesses " were the 144,000 and the Great Crowd, with the GC as a 2nd rate class. The Jonadabs were nobody's, not even invited to conventions or to the memorial?! I am not at home to research this further, but it seems that most JWs feel that the Bible Students were confused, but the JWs were not. The videos about the ORG may even paint that picture. If so, it's another example of revisionist history and a false stylus. Please correct me if I am wrong.

    DD

    pixel posted Mon, 25 Nov 2013 21:50:40 GMT(11/25/2013)

    Post 449 of 685
    Joined 7/21/2006

    Wow. Just wow.

    The Searcher posted Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:10:22 GMT(11/25/2013)

    Post 702 of 1133
    Joined 1/10/2012

    Your insightful research is only providing fuel for the Org's fire, when they decide to disfellowship anyone who consorts with apostates on websites like this which are opposed to "God's Organization".

    Keep it up!! :)

    Band on the Run posted Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:19:41 GMT(11/25/2013)

    Post 7569 of 9031
    Joined 12/18/2010

    I was a child in the 1950s. My grandfather was remnant. According to my mom, Bible Students viewed themselves as appointed. Most JWs his age saw themselves as remnant. My grandmother's generation, though, identified with the Great Crowd. When I was a child and teenager, the remnant were very few. I thought that as my great grandfather's generation died, the end times would come. During the late 1960s, however, our young overseer announced that he was appointed. We thought this was outrageous and that Bethel would show him a thing or two. Well, we waited for him to be yanked. Someone in the KH actually reported the situation to Bethel so the overseer would be reproved. They received a letter from Bethel stating it was permissible.

    The great joy of attending the convention made me laugh. I never thought of sheer boredom as great joy. Did anyone find it joyous to sit through lectures from hell describe prophecy and the Witnesses in excruciating detail? I know Witnesses who would say it was great joy but I have yet to meet anyone in real life who finds meetings joy.

    M jwfacts posted Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:39:56 GMT(11/25/2013)

    Post 7511 of 7755
    Joined 6/25/2005

    However, great joy was now near for the Jonadab company or “other sheep.

    What a dishonest spin. Up to that time, the other sheep were the milllions of worldly people on earth that were going to survive into paradise. The Great Crowd were those that were going to heaven, but not as the ruling 144,000. I don't see how it was great joy for the millions on earth to be told that they were going to be destroyed at Armageddon, or for the great crowd to be told they were no longer going to heaven, but would remain on earth. At that time, the most JWs thought they were of the 144,000, so married couples where one thought they were of the Great Crowd and the other of the 144,000 suddenly realised they would not be together in the future.

    Bob_NC posted Tue, 26 Nov 2013 01:28:30 GMT(11/26/2013)

    Post 236 of 345
    Joined 11/1/2002

    Data D. I am pretty sure that I have this right, but if not, someone with WT quotes can correct me.

    The 1931 convention was when the name Jehovah's wtinesses was adopted. This was all Rutherford. He held this and made the announcement, as he answered to no one.

    The 1935 convention was when the announcement was made that the great crowd was at the convention. At first they didn't know what was meant. Upon realizing that Rutherford meant the non-remnant, the non-Jehovah's witnesses, they all burst into applause.

    Crazyguy posted Tue, 26 Nov 2013 02:08:17 GMT(11/26/2013)

    Post 743 of 1380
    Joined 3/28/2013

    You are correct I researched this whole thing while researching the subject of the Mediator. I even think to this day the rank and file are considered jonadabs by the remnant at bethel. They just no longer use the term so as to not bring attention to it. I also think that is why the baptism is not of the father son and holyspirit but to and Org. Because there not worthy anyway to the remnant class.

    DATA-DOG posted Tue, 26 Nov 2013 02:44:11 GMT(11/26/2013)

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    Joined 6/21/2012

    I need to watch the JW " Out of Darkness " video to be sure. I guess I was caught off guard by this article. I just think that most modern day dubs perceive things differently than how they actually occured. If you asked a JW, especially a new one, " What's an understanding that Jehovah's Witnesses had that the Bible Students did not?", they would probably say ," JWs understood the identity of the GC of [other sheep]."

    Actually, that is not true since they were calling themselves JWs while believing that they were all part of the remnant or the GC, which was understood to be a heavenly group all the way up to 1935. I bet most think that the "understanding" was much earlier. The original FDS, Rutherford, did not have it right to begin with. It's not earth shattering, it just struck me as odd, and I never thought about it before.

    DD

    Crazyguy posted Tue, 26 Nov 2013 03:17:05 GMT(11/26/2013)

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    I guess in the Finish Mystery Book Rutherford talks about 4 classes the 144k, great multitude, the Jonadabs and one other. In the 30's the jonadabs and the great crowd become one in the same.

    prologos posted Tue, 26 Nov 2013 04:35:56 GMT(11/26/2013)

    Post 2025 of 3174
    Joined 11/6/2012

    wow, that was an admission by the early WT on your copy of paragraph 21:

    "---"--- this secondary class of SPRITUAL ISRAELITES--"

    of course as Rev.7 !-8 shows the 144 000 come OUT OF the 12 tribes of Israel. so the "Jonadabs must be ISRAELITES.

    Lites not heavies,

    secondary.

    secong hand Rose on second street. WT street.

    EdenOne posted Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:16:06 GMT(11/26/2013)

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    Joined 1/2/2013

    Marked

    designs posted Tue, 26 Nov 2013 11:14:23 GMT(11/26/2013)

    Post 16423 of 17364
    Joined 6/17/2009

    The earthly class was also described as the wood gatherers, the non-Israelites, serving the Levite priests. The book RICHES is worth a read if you have it.

    St George of England posted Tue, 26 Nov 2013 11:38:17 GMT(11/26/2013)

    Post 2257 of 2379
    Joined 3/22/2010

    WT August 1, 1935 explains about this. ("The Great Multitude", pp 227 - 236.)

    For the first time the GC of Revelation and the OS of John 10:16 are identified as being one and the same. I have not read this article for a long time but as I remember no proof was given for this change.

    An explanation was also given that the OS and Jonadabs are one and the same. Maybe the following article.

    George

    F AnnOMaly posted Tue, 26 Nov 2013 14:58:31 GMT(11/26/2013)

    Post 3748 of 3996
    Joined 8/11/2003

    Vindication I (1931), p. 106-108

    Who are the ones that receive the mark in their foreheads? Whoever they are, they cry for the abominations that are done in Christendom. It could not have reference to those who come to a knowledge of the truth and who are anointed of the Lord, because such are in “the joy of the Lord” …

    The ones marked could not refer to the “great multitude”, or “tribulation” class , because, while it is true that these do mourn and ‘sigh as prisoners’, yet they will not be spared in the great time of trouble, but, on the contrary, they are appointed to die; and when the great assault is made upon the city, they will fall. (Zech. 14:2) They will not be carried through the time of trouble. They will be forced into the time of trouble to take their stand on the side of the Lord, but must die in order to live as spirit creatures .

    There is but one other class of people on the earth to whom the prophecy could apply. Within the land of Christendom there is a class of people who are under the Devil’s organization but who are no part of it and do not sympathize with it. They are people of good will who have a desire for righteousness but who have not had an opportunity to learn the truth, this being due to the unfaithfulness of the clergymen in Christendom. … These people of good will are ignorant of God’s Word and his purposes of redemption and deliverance of the human race by and through the ministration of the kingdom. …

    The Lord tells of a class of persons whom he will ‘deliver in a time of trouble and keep alive and bless upon the earth’. (Ps. 41:1,2) This must be the class of persons that are often described as ‘the millions now living that will never die’. This is the class of men and women that receive the mark in their foreheads, that is to say, are given some knowledge of God’s purposes to destroy the wicked organization and to establish his own government of righteousness under Christ and according to his promise to bless all the families of the earth.

    Vindication III (1932), p.204 - talking about Ezek. 40 and the outer court of the temple:

    "It was seven steps above the outside, but was lower than the pavement of the inner court ( I-H ), which is utilized by the royal priesthood. This picture shows the position of the "great multitude". Ever and anon someone advances the conclusion that the "great multitude" will not be a spiritual class. The prophecy of Ezekiel shows that such conclusion is erroneous. The fact that their position is seven steps higher than the outside shows that they must be made spirit creatures."

    F AnnOMaly posted Tue, 26 Nov 2013 15:09:49 GMT(11/26/2013)

    Post 3749 of 3996
    Joined 8/11/2003

    The 'spirit-begotten' 144,000 and 'great crowd' were 'spiritual Israel' ("Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen" - Isa. 43:10).

    The Jonadabs/'other sheep' were not 'spiritual Israel' but 'companions,' 'people of good will,' 'mixed company' (who accompanied the Israelites during the exodus), 'Jonadabs' (Jonadab accompanied and supported anointed Jehu), 'alien residents,' 'spiritual Gentiles,' etc. and, therefore, could not be counted as 'Jehovah's witnesses.'

    Caused some confusion after 1935 when questions started to surface about whether the new-style Jonadabs/earth-bound 'great crowd' class could officiate in JW congregations or be elders etc.

    bats in the belfry posted Tue, 26 Nov 2013 17:20:54 GMT(11/26/2013)

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    This must be the class of persons that are often described as ‘the millions now living that will never die’.

    I think JFR made up this class as he went along.

    All other so-called classes then in existence were either refered to by biblical names or other Bible references.

    BU2B posted Tue, 26 Nov 2013 17:39:29 GMT(11/26/2013)

    Post 474 of 1059
    Joined 6/29/2012

    Good research and thoughts DD. It is SO OBVIOUS now that we have awakened from the fog of lies and deception that is the WT, that all that the Org is and has ever been is a man or group of men making it all up as they go along, all the while claiming that their authority comes directly from God, thereby commanding unquestioning obedience. All of the changes in meaning of GC, Other Sheep, Jonadabs, great multitude, who will and wont survive armageddon, get a resurection, and so on make it so clear that there is no way God ditrcted such twaddle. Just men with delusions of grandeur.

    DATA-DOG posted Tue, 26 Nov 2013 17:47:09 GMT(11/26/2013)

    Post 3564 of 4908
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    Rutherford's "millions" class was a bust, that much is clear. Thanks to AnnOmally for those nice quotes. How do you make those appear in boxes? They look so much better. Anyway, It was a fact that the Great Multitude was a heavenly class!! Just when I think TTATT can't become any clearer I find something new.

    Lurkers, could it be anymore obvious why you are kept on a treadmill of busy work? Do you see why the WTBTS controls information while simultaneously dispensing a never-ending flow of propaganda?

    DD

    bats in the belfry posted Tue, 26 Nov 2013 18:34:17 GMT(11/26/2013)

    Post 704 of 775
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    DATA-DOG >>> How do you make those appear in boxes?

    .

    When in EDIT mode, go to the "HTML" icon.

    When the box opens precede and end your written text like this:

    <blockquote><p>Your text here</p></blockquote>

    F AnnOMaly posted Tue, 26 Nov 2013 19:02:47 GMT(11/26/2013)

    Post 3750 of 3996
    Joined 8/11/2003

    How do you make those appear in boxes?

    Select your text. Press the 'quote' button (between the 'indent' and 'undo' buttons).

      Close

      Confirm ...