Religion vs. Spirituality

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    cofty posted Sun, 17 Nov 2013 20:15:33 GMT(11/17/2013)

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    No Kate I have not heard you spouting woo.

    What would you call spirituality without any belif in the supernatural or the spirit world?

    tec posted Sun, 17 Nov 2013 20:37:40 GMT(11/17/2013)

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    Etimology of the word spiritual... and this only goes back to the 12th century. If anyone is interested; just watch for the times when different meanings get added to the original.

    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=spiritual&allowed_in_frame=0

    Peace,

    tammy

    Oubliette posted Sun, 17 Nov 2013 21:13:00 GMT(11/17/2013)

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    Cofty: What would you call spirituality without any belif in the supernatural or the spirit world?

    Good question. Maybe having a sense of wonder, curiousity, excitement and enthusiasm for what is.

    I'm glad to see some really good discussion on this thread. As is not my typical style, I purposely have not commented much. I was hoping the smattering of quotes would stimulate some good discussion without any commentary from me. I'm happy to see it did!

    KateWild posted Sun, 17 Nov 2013 21:30:45 GMT(11/17/2013)

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    What would you call spirituality without any belif in the supernatural or the spirit world?-cofty

    I haven't thought about it without God. I have seen you post things like music, art, nature, move you and you consider this spiritual. I don't really get that, becuase things make me consider an intelligent creator and that moves me to want to learn more about God.

    But each to his own. Kate xx

    M Etude posted Sun, 17 Nov 2013 21:41:59 GMT(11/17/2013)

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    Check out this topic: can spirituality replace religion?

    braincleaned posted Sun, 17 Nov 2013 21:42:27 GMT(11/17/2013)

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    Maybe we all have a different sensibility to the word "spiritual".
    For me, wonderment is a spiritual state. I find the more I "feel" and discover the universe thru science, the more intense my emotion.
    It's a fruit of the human spirit or consciousness.

    I cannot find a better word than "spiritual" to explain the awe I have towards this universe.

    It's a feeling that goes beyond physical — like an overwhelming bliss and respect.
    ___

    The dictionary does open the idea to more than a religious feeling:

    spir·it·u·al ˈspiriCHo͞oəl adjective 1. of, relating to, or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.
    2. of or relating to religion or religious belief.

    OUTLAW posted Sun, 17 Nov 2013 21:44:14 GMT(11/17/2013)

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    .

    ....................Religion.......................... VS.................. ......Spirituality..

    ............

    ...................................................... photo mutley-ani1.gif ...OUTLAW

    Satanus posted Sun, 17 Nov 2013 21:59:45 GMT(11/17/2013)

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    People tend to jump from existence of spirit to the need for a god made of spirit. Thats like saying that since we have a police force, therefore, there must be a galactic police force.

    The standard god idea is an animal product, not a spiritual one. He is the penultimate alpha animal image - super power, super smart, is everywhere, and is male.

    S

    adamah posted Sun, 17 Nov 2013 22:13:16 GMT(11/17/2013)

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    TEC said-

    Spirituality, spiritual, spirit.... none of that has anything to do with religion. I would not really agree with the quote from the OP, but the distinction between religion and the spiritual is true. I am a little confused by some statements though. I am not sure how someone who claims that there is no spirit... can also claim to be spiritUAL. I do know that the word now may mean many things... but anything to do with SPIRITual... has to do with the spirit. For example, what does it mean to have a spiritual connection with things around you... if you deny that there is any such thing as a spirit?

    Yeah, mark this occasion, as I think TEC is right: it's always off-putting to me when I see so-called 'rationalists' claim to be 'spiritual', when we all know there's absolutely no scientific basis to justify the belief in the concept of 'spirits' or 'souls' (and it's not like some haven't been looking, eg so-called 'scientific experiments' conducted 100 yrs ago that attempted to measure the weight of a soul at the time of death, etc).

    The use of the word 'spiritual' is fallacious and seemingly done to confuse, like how Einstein played word games with his definition of the word 'God', which he likely knew the general public would not take the time to look into his definition.

    So strictly speaking, an 'atheist' is a single-position statement on the existence of Gods, and not ghosts, spirits, etc. So while the atheist doesn't believe in God(s), it's possible for that person to believe in ghosts/souls. However, that atheist is NOT a skeptic, since as for the case of God(s), they'd demand to see evidence before believing in ghosts, just like they'd need to examine evidence to justify their God belief.

    Of course, just like many people believe in God, NOT based on evidence, but based on their desires for God to exist, some atheists similarly don't WANT a God to exist, for whatever reasons. God's existence has NOTHING to do with our desires, hopes and dreams: we cannot will Gods into or out of existence, since Gods and hosts are not like Peter Pan or Tinkerbell (where their existence demands us to believe in fairies). They exist or they don't, since existence is a binary condition/state.

    Adam

    F FlyingHighNow posted Sun, 17 Nov 2013 22:18:01 GMT(11/17/2013)

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    “Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality.” ― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

    I'm not sure a person who completely disbelieves in spirits can be spiritual in the sense most think of the word. But there is another kind of spirit we speak of. It would come under the example of school spirit or something like nationalism. Then there is spirit that comes under meaning. I'm a person who feels the spirit of a law is more important than the letter of the law. Then there comes in the kind of spirit that has to do with emotion or morale. We have to keep our spirit up, don't you know? The spirit of the hurricane victims grew dark. The spirit of Boston soared as their Red Sox won the World Series.

    For me, spirituality, or spiritual awareness, has to do with things that would seem intangible, but we know exist by events and experiences in our lives. Spirituality usely appeals to your higher, inner self. It can appeal to the darker self as well.

    Woo woo. Never have heard the term. My term for this would be "out there", as in obviously delusional. If you've had the experience of being with someone who is truly having a psychotic break or episode, you'll know the difference between true delusion and what you are calling woo woo. A psychotic person completely loses touch with reality. Completely.

    Religion can be very spiritual. They are not synonymous though.

    cofty posted Sun, 17 Nov 2013 22:24:05 GMT(11/17/2013)

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    I live in awe of the magnitude and beauty of the cosmos and of the staggering diversity and complexity of living things.

    I can appreciate music and art and literature as profoundly as anybody.

    I am certain there is no reality of any kind beyond the physical.

    I couldn't care less about semantics.

    braincleaned posted Sun, 17 Nov 2013 22:43:16 GMT(11/17/2013)

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    Spirit can mean consciousness. It can also mean attitude — so I disagree, and I maintain that I'm a spiritual atheist.
    That's it... all the rest are semantics.

    F FlyingHighNow posted Sun, 17 Nov 2013 22:58:09 GMT(11/17/2013)

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    Religions: some embrace spirituality more than others, but most embrace it to some degree.

    Spirituality: one of the most powerful forms spirituality takes, is in lighting candles or fires. I light them at home. If I, on occasion, visit a high Episcopal Church or a Roman Catholic one, I always light candles for my loved ones. Sometimes I light them for me. Sometimes I light them for the sense of connection they give.

    There is a quiet power, awe, joy, strength and reverence in lighting candles. My favorite thing about Christmas, as a child, was to go Midnight Mass, where each of us would be given a candle. At the end of the service, I remember we would kneel and the acolytes or altar boys would come and light everyone's candles while we sang O Holy Night or Silent Night while the lights would be turned down very low in the church. We'd carry the candles out into the night with us. Very, very moving and spiritual experience, even for my atheist grandson. "Oh fall on your knees, hear the angel voices...." Try that one Christmas Eve. Very lovely and spiritually moving. The smell of melting candle wax, especially in a church with lots of wood, it's very moving.

    rubbeng posted Sun, 17 Nov 2013 23:00:25 GMT(11/17/2013)

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    marked

    F FlyingHighNow posted Sun, 17 Nov 2013 23:11:38 GMT(11/17/2013)

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    Candle light vigils, when people die, give survivors connection and ground them during times so deeply painful, to make them bearable.

    F FlyingHighNow posted Sun, 17 Nov 2013 23:30:42 GMT(11/17/2013)

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    Believer or atheist, I challenge you to listen to this and not be moved spiritually:

    Lay Down (Candles in the Rain)

    by

    Melanie with The Edwin Hawkins Singers

    About her experience at Woodstock, the real one in 1969

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=530Hqoamf3Q

    Picture of Melanie & The Edwin Hawkins Singers

    LYRICS TO CANDLES IN THE RAIN
    Little sisters of the sun lit
    candles in the rain,
    fed the world on oats and raisins
    candles in the rain
    li the fire to the soul
    who never knew his friend
    meher baba lives again
    candles in the rain
    to be there is to remember
    lay it down again
    lay down
    lay down
    lay it down again
    men can live as brothers
    candles in the rain....

    LYRICS TO LAY DOWN (CANDLES IN THE RAIN)
    CHORUS
    lay down lay down, let it all down
    let your white birds smile up at the ones who stand and frown
    lay down lay down, let it all down
    let your white birds smile up at the ones who stand and frown
    we were so close, there was no room
    we bled inside each others wounds
    we had caught the same disease
    and we all sang songs of peace
    CHORUS
    so raise the candles high cause if you
    don't we could stay black against the night
    oh raise them higher again and if you
    do we could stay dry against the rain
    CHORUS
    we were so close there was no room
    we bled inside each others wounds
    we had caught the same disease
    and we all sang songs of peace
    some came to sing, some came to pray
    some came to keep the dark away
    so raise the candles high
    cause if you don't we could stay
    black against the sky
    oh oh raise them higher again
    and if you do we could stay dry against the rain
    CHORUS

    jeremiah18:5-10 posted Mon, 18 Nov 2013 00:12:10 GMT(11/18/2013)

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    I think religion, especially JW since that's the only one I've been a part of, tries to use religious practices and regulations to measure spirituality. But spirituality cant be measured, its deeply personal.

    Trying to use religion to measure spirtuality is like trying to measure air pressure with a tape measure.

    KateWild posted Mon, 18 Nov 2013 00:34:48 GMT(11/18/2013)

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    I maintain that I'm a spiritual atheist.-braincleaned

    That's an interesting ID of yourself. I think a lot of people who call themselves atheists are deep thinkers and are well read especially in reading the Bible. Very interesting concept.

    Satanus posted Mon, 18 Nov 2013 00:54:01 GMT(11/18/2013)

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    I wasn't there. But, from everything that i have read, heard and seen, for many at woodstock 1969, it was a spiritual experience. They transcended the mud and rain and felt a deeper connection to nature and eachother.

    S

    F FlyingHighNow posted Mon, 18 Nov 2013 00:58:31 GMT(11/18/2013)

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    I wasn't there. But, from everything that i have read, heard and seen, for many at woodstock 1969, it was a spiritual experience. They transcended the mud and rain and felt a deeper connection to nature and eachother.

    Just thinking of that whole era, even living through it as a child still in grammar school, it was moving and spiritual. To see people get out and protest for civil rights and peace, all to such a once in many life times soundtrack? AMAZING.

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