Today's WT lesson: Desperate for more MS. How many get appointed 1 yr after baptism?


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    M Open mind posted Sun, 05 Jun 2011 18:49:00 GMT(6/5/2011)

    Post 5510 of 6287
    Joined 8/30/2006

    Today's WT lesson: Serving Jehovah with All Seriousness, excerpt from Paragraph 11:

    "If a brother has been baptized at least one year and to a reasonable degree meets the Scriptural qualifications for ministerial servants outlined at 1 Timothy 3:8-13, he can be recommended for appointment."

    How often have you seen someone become a Ministerial Servant one year after baptism?

    This isn't a new rule, but the reminder to elders speaks volumes IMO.


    cantleave posted Sun, 05 Jun 2011 19:02:00 GMT(6/5/2011)

    Post 6109 of 13242
    Joined 6/25/2009

    they are desperate for men to reach out. There has been years of Elders using the miracle criteria for appointments leading to discouragement and men stopping reaching out. Now they are reaping what they sowed and are in desperate need of appointed men as elders are having to work harder to fill the gaps and they are getting older.

    burnedout posted Sun, 05 Jun 2011 19:10:00 GMT(6/5/2011)

    Post 19 of 41
    Joined 5/20/2011

    10 years as MS and 11 years as Elder, I have never seen a brother been appointed to MS after only one year.

    During 11 years as Elder, figure 22 elders meetings with a CO discussing brothers' qualifications... the conversation ALWAYS comes down to hours in field service, visibility, and not being a 'newly converted man.' The only way I could see a one year brother make it to MS is to be a ball of fire as a reg pio (that only can happen 6 months after baptism.) so he would only have 6 months as a reg pio and still be a 'newly converted man.' It has always been seen as 'laying on of hands hastily.'

    This WT study article may be pointing out the technical requirements but the last 5 to 7 years of trying to get a man appointed as MS has been extremely difficult. The CO is always covering his own arse, usually shooting down the recommendation with the most inane objections, for example it now seems to be the GB directive that when you look at a married/family mans' hours you subtract 4 hours a month for family study, so you are left over with usually 5 to 7 hours of what they consider 'real field service time.' So a married/family man that works for a living and doing all he can to reach out and work in field service may still not be considered as putting the kingdom first because he 'really only gets less than the national average.'

    I could never reconcile all the latest public articles about men reaching out with the opposite attitude by the CO at recommendation time.

    Another example of procedure within the last year: The CO outlined how we exactly can answer the question of 'How much field service time do I need to qualify?' The first rule as an elder is to NEVER EVER state an exact hour figure. We were to ask the brother how much service time that HE thought was reasonable, if his figure was above the national average then we were to say, OK that sounds like a good goal for you. THEN IF HE DOES NOT START REPORTING THAT AMOUNT OF TIME, we were supposed to remind him of what 'he agreed to do in service!!!!!!!!!!"

    The big bosses know they have a problem of men resigning their positions in the congregation, so they say they need more men to reach out, but the reality is that during the meetings with the CO 'in the back room' it just rarely happens.

    This is one more reason that I am...


    Iamallcool posted Sun, 05 Jun 2011 19:14:00 GMT(6/5/2011)

    Post 725 of 3980
    Joined 11/24/2010

    Yes, OM, I do know 3 new converts being appointed MS after one year of baptism in the 80's. One of them is still in the borg as an elder. Two of them left the org.

    dontplaceliterature posted Sun, 05 Jun 2011 19:25:00 GMT(6/5/2011)

    Post 181 of 701
    Joined 12/28/2010

    I am a Ministerial Servant and have been slacking off in "official" duties in a major way. I still spend a lot of time with older ones, and taking kids from single parent families out to do things, etc. But, my Service time has been hovering around 4 - 5 hours per month, I rarely comment anymore, and have missed 30% of the since January. This is a huge drop in activity for me. I used to get around 15-20 hours a month, commented all the time, never missed a meeting (even if I was sick).

    No one has said a word to me. Not one.

    M Open mind posted Sun, 05 Jun 2011 20:04:00 GMT(6/5/2011)

    Post 5511 of 6287
    Joined 8/30/2006

    Thanks for your up-to-date perspectives burnedout.

    I stopped being an elder a couple years ago, but I also have NEVER seen someone recommended for MS just one year after baptism.

    Maybe this Watchtower will help to scrape up a few more grunts.


    M dozy posted Sun, 05 Jun 2011 20:16:00 GMT(6/5/2011)

    Post 904 of 1529
    Joined 2/18/2006

    From my somewhat limited perspective , the requirements to being appointed as a MS have been diluted considerably. A 19 year old has just been appointed locally who is jobless & spends most of his time playing computer games with his friends (many of whom are "worldly"). Another was a 60+ man whose brain has sadly been destroyed by a lifetime of alcohol abuse before (and sometimes since) he became a JW. Neither would ever have even been considered 5 years ago.

    A lot depends on the CO - a COBOE who remains a close friend told me that basically the CO was telling him that unless a brother was doing virtually nothing , then he should be put forward for discussion by the CO.

    baltar447 posted Sun, 05 Jun 2011 21:25:00 GMT(6/5/2011)

    Post 702 of 2332
    Joined 3/11/2006

    dontplaceliterature, Have you had a CO visit since slacking off?

    F blondie posted Sun, 05 Jun 2011 21:31:00 GMT(6/5/2011)

    Post 32074 of 37887
    Joined 5/28/2001

    Over 40 years I have seen several men made MS after just 1 year. In one case they were born-in, baptized at 15, regular pioneering for 2 years, and appointed at 20, made elder at 25. But I have known 3 that were not born in but had a college education, were reliable and energetic, got in 15 hours or more each month in the d2d. Also there was not many MS and the elders were overloaded with the peon work in the congregation so were motivated to advance them.

    M Honesty posted Sun, 05 Jun 2011 21:42:00 GMT(6/5/2011)

    Post 8722 of 9346
    Joined 1/12/2005

    I have seen 2 be appointed as MS.

    One was single and moved out of the state within a year of his appointment and was never heard from again by the local congregation.

    The other one was 'serving' as an elder in N.C. the last I heard. He was/is a good company man.

    M OnTheWayOut posted Sun, 05 Jun 2011 22:10:00 GMT(6/5/2011)

    Post 13781 of 18592
    Joined 9/8/2006

    This is not just a reminder to elders, it is a reminder to the men who join the cult. After one year, "What's wrong with you that you are not an MS? Start sucking up better."

    It took me more than 2 years to make MS from baptized convert, but only less than 4 more to make elder. I moved to a completely different area after that where they never appointed men elders with as few years as me. I suppose different bodies of elders have different takes on this. They did re-appoint me in the new cong., but I understand it was only from a favorable letter and some prodding by a C.O..

    I remember conducting a Book Study and I asked "Who has more than 10 years as a baptized JW?" Even my wife, who was baptized as a teen raised her hand. Every single adult in the room except for me, the only elder and the conductor, raised their hand. I kind of did the "Why aren't you up here conducting?" question to the men. (I was fully dubbed over my head at the time and about 7 years baptized.)

    Mad Sweeney posted Sun, 05 Jun 2011 22:58:00 GMT(6/5/2011)

    Post 5644 of 6956
    Joined 11/2/2009

    Over 40 years I have seen several men made MS after just 1 year. In one case they were born-in, baptized at 15, regular pioneering for 2 years, and appointed at 20, made elder at 25.

    This case is not 'after just 1 year' but after FIVE years.

    IIRC, I was baptized TWENTY-FOUR years before being appointed. I had "reached out" and given up many times. I suppose they wanted more consistency. From informal feedback I got filtered through my family they also wanted me to be "more humble." Yeah, like any of THEM were humble.

    TheListener posted Mon, 06 Jun 2011 00:13:00 GMT(6/6/2011)

    Post 2672 of 2783
    Joined 12/17/2004

    only 1 year! That's quick! I've only seen that a couple times.

    hoser posted Mon, 06 Jun 2011 00:15:00 GMT(6/6/2011)

    Post 136 of 1647
    Joined 1/26/2010

    I saw a guy made an elder only about 3 years after he was baptized, but he was well connected

    I've seen some very qualified, poorly connected brothers wait upwards of ten years to make it.

    It's not what you know, It's who you know!


    M steve2 posted Mon, 06 Jun 2011 01:15:00 GMT(6/6/2011)

    Post 3517 of 8799
    Joined 10/31/2004

    The reminder is a consequence of how few baptized males are actually reaching out for these positions. It has more than a whiff of desperation about it.

    M jwfacts posted Mon, 06 Jun 2011 02:59:00 GMT(6/6/2011)

    Post 5800 of 8024
    Joined 6/25/2005

    Lack of supply has led to a change. In the congregation I grew up in, there were so many servants and elders that brothers waited years to become an MS. One serious minded brother that was raised a JW was not made an MS until he was 30. Nowdays he probably would have been an elder by that age.

    TheLoveDoctor posted Mon, 06 Jun 2011 03:57:00 GMT(6/6/2011)

    Post 266 of 287
    Joined 8/31/2010

    Crazy 1 I was not a born in but while studying and took about a year, though i knew the (truth?) I have always showed love to the friends, always early for meetings, and did average 7-10 hrs a month. Baptised in 94 and appointed a year to a year and next co visit. Why? Cause I was a good boy.

    Crisis of Conscience posted Mon, 06 Jun 2011 04:11:00 GMT(6/6/2011)

    Post 374 of 954
    Joined 3/30/2010

    I was raised a witness, but not born-in. I was appointed a servant a year and four months after I was baptized.

    I never knew what the official policy was but I did find that little tidbit in the Watchtower study interesting. Desperation?


    EntirelyPossible posted Mon, 06 Jun 2011 12:48:00 GMT(6/6/2011)

    Post 429 of 5595
    Joined 3/20/2011

    1 year? That's stupid. Paul spoke to Jesus ONCE and was made apostle as soon as he could see again a few days later.

    WTWizard posted Mon, 06 Jun 2011 14:01:00 GMT(6/6/2011)

    Post 11799 of 15094
    Joined 5/10/2007

    Let's see. If you have someone getting baptized at age 6, they can be assistant hounders at age 7? For sure, they are going to start getting the pressure to do just that.

    Now, what is "reasonable" field circus hours? What is "reasonable" activity? Anyone that has had a basic knowledge of economics should know about opportunity costs, marginal costs, and marginal benefits. Marginal cost is the cost of the next unit of activity, while the marginal benefit is the amount you reasonably expect to gain from that next unit. There is such a thing as diminishing returns--the more you do something, the lower the marginal benefit is. And the marginal cost usually goes up with each unit. Once the marginal cost equals the marginal benefit, that is the optimal amount. Anything more is beyond reasonable and always results in net loss. This goes as much for attendance at boasting sessions and volunteeering at a$$emblies as for field circus.


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