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A Gem From This Week's TMS

    torn in two son posted Fri, 17 Dec 2010 05:28:00 GMT(12/17/2010)

    Post 35 of 42
    Joined 12/30/2009

    Before I get to the gem in this week's TMS, let me let any of you newbies here up to date with us JDubs and schooling. In the February 22, 2002 Watchtower, the WTBTS released the article titled "How My Dream Was Fullfilled". It was one of many typical JW stories of a good devout JDub "resisting temptation" and accepting the borg as absolute truth. One of the dillemas of this JW youth was the topic of college. Here's a little excerpt.

    "Eventually, in September 1982, I was accepted as a student at a college in Prague, where I studied agronomy. Soon, however, I found that I couldn’t care for my college courses properly and at the same time give the attention I desired to Bible study. So I told one of my professors that I was thinking about quitting college. "

    FYI according to Wikipedia, agronomy is "the science and technology of using plants for food, fuel, feed, fiber, and reclamation." So a good, growing field. (Pun not intended). And yet, of course, this JDub youth turned down college and eventually became a pioneer yatta yatta.

    According to freeminds.org, Jehovah's Witnesses are #30 in a list of percentage of college grads in religious backgrounds. Unitarians came in at #1 with 49.5% (no surprise there), Hindus were #2 at 47%, then the Jews at 46.7%, Agnostics at #7 at 36.3%. JDubs? 4.7% FOUR POINT SEVEN. That's 1.5 million college grad JDubs, not necessarily with doctarates or masters, but with at least a bachelors. 1.5 million, WORLDWIDE. That is an overwhelmingly small number.

    And yet. This week. An elder in our congregation at the Theocratic Ministy School said, nothing out of context, a verbatim quote, he said,

    "We are the most educated people on the planet."

    ACCCKK BLAAAGGH HAIRBALL

    torn

    F Gayle posted Fri, 17 Dec 2010 05:53:00 GMT(12/17/2010)

    Post 2096 of 4485
    Joined 11/17/2006

    1.5millioncollege grad JDubs,

    That seems to be too high,,can't be that many

    torn in two son posted Fri, 17 Dec 2010 06:00:00 GMT(12/17/2010)

    Post 36 of 42
    Joined 12/30/2009

    Whoops! Don't have a college degree yet. I did the math wrong, and ran it through again:

    7500000 x 0.047 = 352,500

    352 thousand! Worldwide! Amazing yet depressing.

    torn

    WTWizard posted Fri, 17 Dec 2010 09:10:00 GMT(12/17/2010)

    Post 11209 of 14686
    Joined 5/10/2007

    Math errors aside, that is pathetically small. With close to half the Unitarians educated with college, how can the witlesses claim to be the most educated in the world? Perhaps if they presume that a theocraptic "education(??)" is superior to a college education.

    However, with the coming Greater Depression, theocraptic "skills(??)" aren't going to do jack squat in helping people survive. You are going to need to barter. To barter, you are going to need to develop a skill you can trade for goods and services you need. For instance, you might be able to trade fixing a computer for having someone fix your roof. Or, you might decorate someone's house for Christmas in exchange for food. Or do some maintenance work in exchange for a place to stay. Since when is wasting the time and energy to go door to door spreading a message that most people view as worthless going to get anyone anything useful in exchange?

    Little Imp posted Fri, 17 Dec 2010 09:36:00 GMT(12/17/2010)

    Post 214 of 330
    Joined 7/30/2010

    I remember once the Book Study Conductor at our Group saying that witnesses have the equivalent to a degree with all their education!

    Juan Viejo2 posted Fri, 17 Dec 2010 09:45:00 GMT(12/17/2010)

    Post 154 of 858
    Joined 6/17/2009

    WTWizard -

    Maybe the Watchtower figures that there will always be a need for people to clean toilets, mop floors, and take out the trash. In some small communities in the USA south and midwest, the local JWs have a lock on the janitorial services in town. In some smaller towns in Arkansas, Missouri and Mississippi they have a near monopoly.

    While most of us would consider a computer and a decent desk phone as necessary for conducting business, many JW families invest their funds in floor polishers and shop vacuums.

    A few years ago, back when Wal-mart was still a relatively small and regional discount retailer, everyone in the local Kingdom Hall in some smaller towns worked in one of their stores as late-night shelf stockers or janitors. That may have changed since Wal-mart has become so much bigger and widespread.

    This is not intended to knock JWs that work in any trade - or even to knock Wal-mart (even though they have often earned well-deserved criticism) - but rather to attest to the fact that for many JWs owning your own janitorial service is considered something to aspire to.

    That and, of course, a new high-powered floor polisher...

    St George of England posted Fri, 17 Dec 2010 11:38:00 GMT(12/17/2010)

    Post 803 of 2378
    Joined 3/22/2010

    Have a look at the PEW REFORM report of education in the US, JW's are among the WORST educated and consequently the WORST paid.

    Other statistics such as divorse are worth looking at also:

    http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

    George

    M Open mind posted Fri, 17 Dec 2010 15:47:00 GMT(12/17/2010)

    Post 5288 of 6225
    Joined 8/30/2006

    I wish we had a recording of that statement.

    100% sincerity & conviction of belief were dripping from every word.

    So sad.

    The ironic thing is, I'm pretty sure the guy giving that part has a University Degree himself.

    om

    M wobble posted Fri, 17 Dec 2010 16:27:00 GMT(12/17/2010)

    Post 3627 of 5745
    Joined 2/20/2008

    "We are the most educated people on the planet"

    I heard that said when I was in, and I thought to myself," that doesn't apply to the J.W's I know."

    I guess that statement is on a par with :

    "We are the happiest people ....."

    "We have the truth..."

    "God is using this organization... " etc. etc. ad nauseum.

    M james_woods posted Fri, 17 Dec 2010 16:36:00 GMT(12/17/2010)

    Post 3364 of 12304
    Joined 10/26/2005

    4.7% - that is pitiful. Doubly pitiful when the religious teaching itself is responsible - not the demographics.

    Is there any religious order that ranks lower?

    (maybe what is left of the Branch Davidians or some such...)

    clearpoison posted Fri, 17 Dec 2010 16:59:00 GMT(12/17/2010)

    Post 38 of 385
    Joined 11/2/2010

    The word most at least is wrong and propably education is wrong term about it. But at least I must say that the variety of themes available ie. through awake magazine is exceptional. If people read those articles, at least general knowledge about different phenomenoms should be raising. It is absolutelly not equivalent (2-3 pages) to specified studies in colleges or universities ofcourse, but spectrum of themes is wider also. I've learned lots of interesting stuff from the awake articles that would not otherwise have been brought to my attention.

    All things are not bad, self-righteous statements may very well be.

    CP

    M james_woods posted Fri, 17 Dec 2010 17:05:00 GMT(12/17/2010)

    Post 3365 of 12304
    Joined 10/26/2005
    The word most at least is wrong and propably education is wrong term about it.
    But at least I must say that the variety of themes available ie. through awake magazine is exceptional. If people read those articles, at least general knowledge about different phenomenoms should be raising. It is absolutelly not equivalent (2-3 pages) to specified studies in colleges or universities ofcourse, but spectrum of themes is wider also. I've learned lots of interesting stuff from the awake articles that would not otherwise have been brought to my attention.

    With all due respect, the above perfectly illustrates the problem here.

    clearpoison posted Fri, 17 Dec 2010 17:13:00 GMT(12/17/2010)

    Post 39 of 385
    Joined 11/2/2010

    With all due respect, the above perfectly illustrates the problem here.

    Exactly, that is why I think saying that they are most educated people is self-righteous. Saying that they are well informed would already be different, even not exactly right either.

    CP

    Eiben Scrood posted Fri, 17 Dec 2010 17:32:00 GMT(12/17/2010)

    Post 90 of 177
    Joined 2/11/2010

    I agree, James. It was an unreadable post by clearpoison.

    M james_woods posted Fri, 17 Dec 2010 17:38:00 GMT(12/17/2010)

    Post 3368 of 12304
    Joined 10/26/2005
    I agree, James. It was an unreadable post by clearpoison.

    Well, yes - and I did not mean it in disrespect. Another point to be made about JWs and education is that REAL education is all about teaching people to research ideas and learn to think for themselves. JW "education" is about trying to memorize anything the WTBTS chooses to print at the moment - and to re-memorize it when they decide to change it. Thinking for yourself as a JW is not allowed.

    torn in two son posted Fri, 17 Dec 2010 20:16:00 GMT(12/17/2010)

    Post 37 of 42
    Joined 12/30/2009

    UPDATE:

    Finals week for torn in two here. Today was the last day, and after school I asked my JDubya friend (who is unaware of my conversion to atheism) about what he thought of evolution. I asked what he thought about the evidence that the WTBTS neglected to mention in some of their newer materials like "The Origin Of Life" blantantly stating that evolution due to a lack of evidence, "has no explanation for the origin of life."

    I asked what he thought about the fossil record and how scientists use radiometric dating to determine the age of fossils and the rocks in the Earth.

    His response? "C'mon [torn], you know what those fossils are right? Those fossils are just decayed bones left behind from the flood."


    I halfway blame JDubs for this. Halfway the school system. We need to get our act together.

    torn

    Yan Bibiyan posted Fri, 17 Dec 2010 20:23:00 GMT(12/17/2010)

    Post 241 of 1302
    Joined 4/6/2010
    His response? "C'mon [torn], you know what those fossils are right? Those fossils are just decayed bones left behind from the flood."

    Sad.....

    sd-7 posted Fri, 17 Dec 2010 20:30:00 GMT(12/17/2010)

    Post 1113 of 3653
    Joined 7/31/2009

    I've heard this statement made by JWs at meetings, as well. Where does this come from? I usually hear it from people who can barely read themselves. I suppose, in the absence of any other information to contradict them, Witnesses will sincerely believe that. Or, quite simply, because they believe they have 'the truth', all other knowledge is irrelevant. By default, they're the smartest; after all, why else are they the only ones who will survive the impending global holocaust? Propaganda technique: "Wise ones will take their stand on Jehovah's side."

    This is one of the things that always bothered me even when I believed the doctrine--sweeping, broad statements like that. I always figured we were in such a tiny corner of the world. Where is our collectively brilliant intellect coming from? Awake! magazine? Holy spirit doesn't write those article about the ant, okay? JW information is cobbled together from various outside sources that the ordinary JW would probably be discouraged from reading too much. Given that new vocabulary is pretty rare in the literature, one's intelligence will not significantly improve by reading it. I noticed many an article that had wording that was clearly cut and pasted from a previous article, word for word. The publications often do this, paste a couple of paragraphs in from a previous article.

    I've heard it before, but...you can't be the smartest if you're not even allowed to read or study whatever you want. That's just common sense. Even without referencing the repeated skewering of 'higher education', it is clear that that statement has no basis.

    -sd-7

    ziddina posted Fri, 17 Dec 2010 21:07:00 GMT(12/17/2010)

    Post 3540 of 10452
    Joined 4/8/2009
    "C'mon [torn], you know what those fossils are right? Those fossils are just decayed bones left behind from the flood."

    Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggghhhh..... [face/palm slap...]

    This thread has a number of excellent comments showing why "Noah's flood" as described in the bible, was impossible... I particularly liked [?] Billy the ex-Bethelite's point about the lack of fresh water on the "ark"...

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/social/current/202747/1/Creationist-Theme-Park-Ark-Encounter

    SD-7, about those "Awake" articles - shortly before I left, in 1983, a brother let me know that many of the "Awake" articles are plagiarized from National Geographic, Smithsonian, or [at the time] Life magazine...

    I did a quick check and sure enough, there were several "Awake" articles that were printed about a month or two following their correspondingly-themed article in the Nat Geo...

    Wonder who they're plagiarizing, now... ???

    Zid

    Slidin Fast posted Sat, 18 Dec 2010 00:29:00 GMT(12/18/2010)

    Post 57 of 533
    Joined 5/26/2010

    I had an uncle who was a missionary. When I was about seven back in the 1950s I was a big reader, devoured anything and everything.

    I noticed a definite correlation between "Readers Digest" and the Awake aticles. I was quite upset but allowed my uncle to mollify me.

    I was really stumbled but accepted that my wise superstar uncle was right. I wish I had listened to my seven year old logic.

    SL

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