Creative Days, How Long?

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    Slidin Fast posted Mon, 09 Aug 2010 14:04:00 GMT(8/9/2010)

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    I really don't know where the WT is on creative days now, they used to be 7000 years long but now seem to be un-named fudged "thousands of years". This immediately starts to put the fossil record into a more sane place until you realise that Adam ius still believed to be created in C4026 BCE.

    So we have fossil records going back almost unarguably into geological timescales, oil (from living things) miles below the surface of the earth. Coal (fossilised trees) also far below the surface of the earth but man 6000 years old aprox.

    No wonder we aren't hearing much on the creative days.

    S F

    cantleave posted Mon, 09 Aug 2010 14:09:00 GMT(8/9/2010)

    Post 3757 of 13199
    Joined 6/25/2009

    It's all crap. Trying to shoehorn myths and legends into 21st century knowledge is never going to work.

    Titus posted Mon, 09 Aug 2010 14:10:00 GMT(8/9/2010)

    Post 1173 of 1035
    Joined 11/25/2009

    Check my first post on this forum.

    F blondie posted Mon, 09 Aug 2010 14:27:00 GMT(8/9/2010)

    Post 30445 of 37516
    Joined 5/28/2001

    Officially, they are still 7,000 years long since the WTS has never printed anything say that concept has changed. They have though slipped in statements saying that each day is thousands of years long without being specific. If a creative day is no longer 7,000 years long, it does undercut the teaching that 1975 was the end of 6,000 years of human history and that the 1,000 year reign of Christ was soon come after 1975.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/6087/1/NEED-HELP-7000-yrs

    designs posted Mon, 09 Aug 2010 14:35:00 GMT(8/9/2010)

    Post 1965 of 18881
    Joined 6/17/2009

    Check the Aid Book from the late 60s under 'Creation' p.392 it says the length of the creative days is unknown: 'the Bible does not specify the length'.

    The Aid Book committee were on a different page than Fred Franz.

    JWoods posted Mon, 09 Aug 2010 14:44:00 GMT(8/9/2010)

    Post 4288 of 4822
    Joined 6/23/2009
    Officially, they are still 7,000 years long since the WTS has never printed anything say that concept has changed. They have though slipped in statements saying that each day is thousands of years long without being specific. If a creative day is no longer 7,000 years long, it does undercut the teaching that 1975 was the end of 6,000 years of human history and that the 1,000 year reign of Christ was soon come after 1975.

    Exactly. They have never backed down on this previous 7,000 teaching, just tried to roller-skate around it by making veiled references to "many thousands of years" and such. It is almost as flagrant as the way they now deny that 1975 ever had any real meaning in their chronologies.

    Back when I was a young witness - even at 12 years old - this was just about the most unbelievable thing (to me) that they taught. I was asking myself - good God, didn't these people even read a 5th grade science book?

    Plus, not a single one of the witnesses could biblically explain where the 7,000 year length came from - you could possibly make a case biblically for a thousand years (a day is like a thousand years to god) - but 7,000? There was no credible reason to pick this lengh.

    I have a theory - I believe Freddy and the other 20th century end-timers came up with it out of whole cloth to make the 7th day end at 6000 years in their own time. This was, after all, the very basis of 1975 and the start of the millenium - and practically none of the witnesses back then prior to 1975 bothered to ask where these 7,000 year creative days came from.

    EDIT TO ADD - and, further on this subject - for that matter, exactly what Biblical reason did Freddy ever have to conclude that the 1000 year reign of Christ would correspond to the last 1000 years of the seventh creative day? Why not the next 1000 years after the 7 x 7,000 = 49,000 years were over? That would at least have made a nice round 50,000 years...

    Like I say, he was obsessed with having the end come in the 20th century.

    F blondie posted Mon, 09 Aug 2010 14:51:00 GMT(8/9/2010)

    Post 30446 of 37516
    Joined 5/28/2001

    JWoods, they arrived at the 7,000 years by counting back from statements of the ages of people in the bible, coming up with 6,000 and then added 1,000 saying that Jesus' reign had to occur in the 7th creative day.

    It was put in an article in the WT...I don't have the CD at work...I'll try to put it on here.

    JWoods posted Mon, 09 Aug 2010 15:12:00 GMT(8/9/2010)

    Post 4290 of 4822
    Joined 6/23/2009
    JWoods, they arrived at the 7,000 years by counting back from statements of the ages of people in the bible, coming up with 6,000 and then added 1,000 saying that Jesus' reign had to occur in the 7th creative day.

    Yeah - I know that was how they actually came up with it...but by that logic, it still all depends on a fixation that the 1,000 years had to start in the 20th century! In other words, they were counting backwards to come up with the 7,000 years. There is nothing Biblically to say that the days might not be say - 12,000 years - (thus another 6,000 years to the end of things), other than their absolute conviction (totally in their own minds) that the end had to come in their own lifetime.

    And now it is the 21st century, the guy who thought this up is dead, the generation of 1914 has passed away, and all this is quietly being dropped.

    But I think Blondie is right - they will probably NEVER give up a total withdrawal from the 7,000 years as this would almost admit that the whole 1975 fantasy was as bogus as the tooth fairy.

    F blondie posted Mon, 09 Aug 2010 15:15:00 GMT(8/9/2010)

    Post 30447 of 37516
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    http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/chronology/1975-and-the-watchower-society-false-prophesy-and-revisionist-history.html

    This shows that they count back to 4026 BCE as the creation of Adam and Eve.

    4026 + 1975 - 1 (no zero year) = 6,000 + 1,000 year reign

    The WTS reasons that if the 7th creative day is 7,000 years long, then the other six are the same length.

    JWoods posted Mon, 09 Aug 2010 15:32:00 GMT(8/9/2010)

    Post 4292 of 4822
    Joined 6/23/2009
    The WTS reasons that if the 7th creative day is 7,000 years long, then the other six are the same length.

    The WTS reasons? But - the fact that things just went on past 1975 drops all this nonsense into the round can.

    By the way, Blondie, has the WTBTS ever taken a position on Irish Archbishop James Ussher? His date for Adam was 4004 BC. Same deal - counted back by the ages of patriarchs, but took the death of Nebuchadnezzar as his fixed date - 562 BC, which is still largely accepted today. Ussher did this back in the mid-1600s and made no prophetic issues out of it - he was interested in just the historical chronology.

    I just re-read a chapter from a book on the age calculation of the world, and was also reminded that the JWs were not the first to claim 6,000 years as the length of existence of the civilized world: An ancient Talmudic prophecy decreed that it was 6,000 divided into three 2,000 year intervals - 2,000 years to be void, 2,000 years of the torah, 2,000 years of the messiah.

    So really, this stuff is all just a JW retune of previous ideas, and not even totally original with them.

    M ramtrucker posted Mon, 09 Aug 2010 15:37:00 GMT(8/9/2010)

    Post 64 of 78
    Joined 3/23/2006

    I personally believe that each creative day was as long as Jehovah needed to finish a particular phase of creation.

    I base this on my own experience when I'm working on a project. I might take as long as ten days, or year, or years, or as short a time as an hour to finish a project.

    When I figure I'm done, I call it good, just as Jehovah did when he finished a particular phase.

    F blondie posted Mon, 09 Aug 2010 15:50:00 GMT(8/9/2010)

    Post 30452 of 37516
    Joined 5/28/2001

    JWoods, you might like looking at Penton's comments on this...I believe this is the book online

    http://books.google.com/books?id=38SYXalMLeQC&pg=PA94&lpg=PA94&dq=ussher+jehovah's&source=bl&ots=wtkPUNALqK&sig=u33ity5GXX7uRLirhNILQS7D-Qk&hl=en&ei=yCJgTO-GMoWdlgfCrv2ZCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CDIQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q&f=false

    I do not have access to the CD at work.

    Room 215 posted Mon, 09 Aug 2010 15:54:00 GMT(8/9/2010)

    Post 2286 of 2914
    Joined 4/16/2001

    the 7,000-day creative day business is another one the WTS wishes would just go away......

    F blondie posted Mon, 09 Aug 2010 15:57:00 GMT(8/9/2010)

    Post 30453 of 37516
    Joined 5/28/2001

    Room 215, they are just waiting for the oldtimers to leave or die off and the pubs with it in are long forgotten.

    JWoods posted Mon, 09 Aug 2010 16:00:00 GMT(8/9/2010)

    Post 4296 of 4822
    Joined 6/23/2009

    Thanks, Blondie - I cannot go to unknown links here at work right now due to security reasons, though.

    I wonder if the average rank & file JW knows that this 7,000 year creative day idea has been abandoned, or the implications? I somehow get the idea that practically none of them know it was ever taught nowadays...

    ______

    BTW -

    The book I took that from is "Aeons" by Martin Gorst - 2001. It is a discussion of the history of man's attempts to define the age of the earth and civilization. Gorst is a writer for Discovery Channel.

    bigmac posted Mon, 09 Aug 2010 16:00:00 GMT(8/9/2010)

    Post 17 of 1808
    Joined 7/12/2010

    when i was a teenage jw back in the late 60's, everyone was into 1975, using this 7000year day nonsense; i even asked a district servant to explain it to me, only to be told its all in the literature. So what!

    No-one could ever prove to me the 7000 year bit, the best advice given to me was to have faith. in what?

    just because it may be 6oooish years from adams alleged creation to some year in the 1970's does not prove the earth is flat, or a "creative day" is xxxx years long.

    the only faith that works for me is if i live to be 100, armageddon will still be a silly threat to frighten the gullible.

    JWoods posted Mon, 09 Aug 2010 16:39:00 GMT(8/9/2010)

    Post 4299 of 4822
    Joined 6/23/2009
    just because it may be 6oooish years from adams alleged creation to some year in the 1970's does not prove the earth is flat, or a "creative day" is xxxx years long.

    Operative word being "may". When Bishop Ussher added this all up for the first time in about 1640, he was faced with three different "ages of the patriarchs" (time count from creation to flood) from various language versions of the old testament...

    Samaritan had it at 1307 years, Hebrew at 1656 years, Greek at 2242 years. Ussher finally just picked the Hebrew number arbitrarily.

    Besides that, you also have to accept the fantasy that some of these ancients lived many hundreds of years to view this literally.

    This is the foundation of sand that Freddy Franz built his 1975 prophecy on.

    St George of England posted Mon, 09 Aug 2010 16:41:00 GMT(8/9/2010)

    Post 406 of 2533
    Joined 3/22/2010

    Not absolutely sure it has been completely abandoned. They now say the earth has been created for millions of years before the creative days began. However I know someone who wrote to the WTS about this and I am trying to get a copy of their reply. The last reference I found of 7000 years is the last one below from 1987.

    Even though the actual earth may be millions of years old, having creative days of 7000 years still leaves the problem of coal and oil deposits being formed in just a few (13000) years which is unreasonable.

    ***yp2chap.36p.301HowCanIDefendMyBeliefinGod?***

    Mysciencetextbooksaysthattheearthandthesolarsystemhavebeeninexistenceforbillionsofyears. The Bible says that the earth and the rest of the universe were in existence before the first creative day. Thus, the earth and the solar system may well be billions of years old.—Genesis 1:1.

    Myteachersaysthattheearthcouldnothavebeencreatedinjustsixdays. The Bible doesn’t state that the six creative days were literal 24-hour periods.

    ***clchap.5p.56par.20CreativePower—“TheMakerofHeavenandEarth”***

    20 Has Jehovah stopped exercising his creative power? Well, the Bible does say that when Jehovah finished his creative work on the sixth creative day, “he proceeded to rest on the seventh day from all his work that he had made.” (Genesis 2:2) The apostle Paul indicated that this seventh “day” is thousands of years long, for it was still ongoing in his day. (Hebrews 4:3-6) But does “rest” mean that Jehovah has stopped working altogether? No, Jehovah never stops working. (Psalm 92:4; John 5:17) His rest, then, must simply refer to the cessation of his work of physical creation respecting the earth. His work of bringing his purposes to fulfillment, however, has continued uninterrupted. Such work has included the inspiration of the Holy Scriptures. His work has even involved the bringing forth of “a new creation,” which will be discussed in Chapter 19.—2 Corinthians 5:17.

    ***w041/1p.28HighlightsFromtheBookofGenesis—I***

    The opening words of Genesis, “in the beginning,” reach back billions of years into the past. The events of the six creative “days,” or time periods of special creative works, are described as they would have appeared to a human observer had he been present on the earth. By the end of the sixth day, God created man. Although Paradise is soon lost because of man’s disobedience, Jehovah gives hope. The very first prophecy of the Bible speaks of a “seed” who will undo the effects of sin and bruise Satan in the head.

    ***w871/1p.30QuestionsFromReaders***

    Second, a study of the fulfillment of Bible prophecy and of our location in the stream of time strongly indicate that each of the creative days (Genesis, chapter 1) is 7,000 years long. It is understood that Christ’s reign of a thousand years will bring to a close God’s 7,000-year ‘rest day,’ the last ‘day’ of the creative week. (Revelation 20:6; Genesis 2:2, 3) Based on this reasoning, the entire creative week would be 49,000 years long.

    George

    It is understood that = EVIDENTLY!

    JWoods posted Mon, 09 Aug 2010 16:44:00 GMT(8/9/2010)

    Post 4300 of 4822
    Joined 6/23/2009

    ***w871/1p.30QuestionsFromReaders***

    Second, a study of the fulfillment of Bible prophecy and of our location in the stream of time strongly indicate that each of the creative days (Genesis, chapter 1) is 7,000 years long. It is understood that Christ’s reign of a thousand years will bring to a close God’s 7,000-year ‘rest day,’ the last ‘day’ of the creative week. (Revelation 20:6; Genesis 2:2, 3) Based on this reasoning, the entire creative week would be 49,000 years long.

    St. George, do you know of them ever affirming this in writing within the last 20 years or so?

    M undercover posted Mon, 09 Aug 2010 16:55:00 GMT(8/9/2010)

    Post 10121 of 13134
    Joined 9/25/2002
    They now say the earth has been created for millions of years before the creative days began...
    yp2chap36p301 "How Can I Defend My Belief in God"
    The Bible says that the earth and the rest of universe were in existence before the first creative day. Thus, the earth and the solar system may well be billions of years old. - Genesis 1:1

    Genesis 1:1

    In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

    They intrepret that as meaning that the heavens and earth in place before the creative days begin. But notice what the Bible actually says about heavens and earth being created...

    Exodus 20:11

    For in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and he proceeded to rest on the seventh day. That is why Jehovah blessed the sabbath day and proceeded to make it sacred.

    Exodus 31:17

    ...because in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth and on the seventh day he rested and proceeded to refresh himself.

    So, comparing the Bible to what the WT says kinda fucks that whole "the earth existed before the creative day" shit all up...

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