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How many significant trees were there in the Garden of Eden?

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    God_Delusion posted Fri, 06 Aug 2010 13:05:00 GMT(8/6/2010)

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    http://www.jehovahswitnessblog.com/2010/08/how-many-significant-trees-were-there.html

    Were there one or two trees?

    If you said one; the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad, you'd be wrong. If, by the magic of chance, you guessed there were two trees; the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad and the Tree of Life, you'd be spot on.

    Please open your bibles with me to Genesis chapter 2, verse 9.

    "Thus Jehovah God made to grow out of the ground every tree desirable to one’s sight and good for food and also the tree of life in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and bad." - New World (Masonic Alert - Masonic Alert) Translation

    Interesting, isn't it. Now then, we come to the crux of the conundrum. Why oh why, do ALL Christian religions rarely talk about the Tree of Life?

    The answer can be found in the bible. Please turn with me to Genesis chapter 3, verse 22..........

    For those that have read the article, what do you make of it?

    Kind regards,

    Carlos

    M sir82 posted Fri, 06 Aug 2010 13:08:00 GMT(8/6/2010)

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    This conundrum, and dozens more, are what you get when you take a redacted book of Jewish fables and mythology and treat them as literal, accurate historical journals.

    designs posted Fri, 06 Aug 2010 13:43:00 GMT(8/6/2010)

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    Were there any Real Trees at all in Gan Eden the allegorical tale from Jewish folklore.

    acolytes posted Fri, 06 Aug 2010 14:07:00 GMT(8/6/2010)

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    Actually I think this is a good question,and has far reaching implications to readers of the bible.

    For a J.W the question needs to be asked how can you say Adam was created perfect. He was created in a dying state, or why would he need eat from the tree of life.

    Actually why do J.ws say Adam was created perfect. There is not one scripture in the bible that says Adam was created perfect.

    I enjoy reading the creation account because I realise as soon as I find the answer, I need to search for a question that will proove the answer wrong.

    I enjoy creating the questions.

    Acolytes

    Soldier77 posted Fri, 06 Aug 2010 14:44:00 GMT(8/6/2010)

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    2 trees.

    You bring out a good point, if Adam was created perfect, why did god put in the garden a "Tree of Life™?" He ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad™ first, and was punished by being banished from the garden so they could not eat of the Tree of Life and be like god, immortal.

    So, sounds like a big lab experiment by god doesn't it? If that truly is the case, I mean the bible has been passed down through the centuries passing through hundreds/thousands of translators and scribes... how accurate is the bible? Really.

    Something to think about...

    M ProdigalSon posted Fri, 06 Aug 2010 15:10:00 GMT(8/6/2010)

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    The real conundrum is how could Adam be a literal person at all when the evidence clearly indicates that humans have been on this planet at least 75,000 years.... oh, I know, th Flood messed with the evidence...nevermind that it was copied from more than 400 previous flood stories.... and the History and Discovery Channels are run by Satan too.

    St George of England posted Fri, 06 Aug 2010 16:03:00 GMT(8/6/2010)

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    I think the JW answer is that although Adam was perfect and would not die, he was not immortal.

    After a suitable time to prove his/their loyaly by not eating the tree of good/bad, they would be rewarded by being allowed to eat of the tree of life. They would thus be granted immortality which is of course different from just living forever.

    Crazy maybe, but I remember that from a talk many years ago.

    George

    acolytes posted Fri, 06 Aug 2010 16:21:00 GMT(8/6/2010)

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    Hi St George of England

    And just to clarify my thinking what is Jehovers Witnesses definition of perfect.

    After Adam was created the term very good is used in the bible.

    Going off topic but one thing I have learnt is life does not need to be perfect to be wonderful.

    Acolytes

    M Finally-Free posted Fri, 06 Aug 2010 16:32:00 GMT(8/6/2010)

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    If Adam and Eve had any brains at all they would have planned the whole thing a lot better. Before eating from the tree of knowledge, they should have picked several bushels of fruit from the tree of life, eaten some, and hidden the rest just outside the garden. Then, once expelled from the garden, they would still have fruit from the tree of life stashed. They could have eaten some and planted the rest. They could have cultivated an orchard of the stuff and sold the fruit in small batches to their descendents for big bucks.

    W

    pirata posted Fri, 06 Aug 2010 16:59:00 GMT(8/6/2010)

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    What I don't get is why they didn't eat from the tree of life first, and then the tree of knowledge second.

    St George of England posted Fri, 06 Aug 2010 20:19:00 GMT(8/6/2010)

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    And just to clarify my thinking what is Jehovers Witnesses definition of perfect.

    Hi Acolytes, the following on perfection is from the Insight book

    ***it-2p.602Perfection***

    For correct Bible understanding one must not make the common error of thinking that everything called “perfect” is so in an absolute sense, that is, to an infinite degree, without limitation. Perfection in this absolute sense distinguishes only the Creator, Jehovah God

    Perfection of any other person or thing, then, is relative, not absolute. (Compare Ps 119:96.) That is, a thing is “perfect” according to, or in relation to, the purpose or end for which it is appointed by its designer or producer, or the use to which it is to be put by its receiver or user

    PerfectionandFreeWill. The foregoing information aids in understanding how perfect creatures of God could become disobedient. To view this as incompatible with perfection is to ignore the meaning of the term, substituting a personal concept that goes contrary to fact. God’s intelligent creatures are granted free moral agency, the privilege and responsibility of making a personal decision as to the course they will take. (De 30:19, 20; Jos 24:15) It is evident that this was the case with the first human pair, so that their devotion to God could be subject to test. (Ge 2:15-17; 3:2, 3) As their Maker, Jehovah knew what he wanted of them, and from the Scriptures it is clear that he wanted, not an automatic, virtually mechanical obedience, but worship and service that sprang from hearts and minds motivated by genuine love. (Compare De 30:15, 16; 1Ch 28:9; 29:17; Joh 4:23, 24.) If Adam and his wife had lacked the ability to choose in this matter, they would not have met God’s requirements; they would not have been complete, perfect, according to his standards.

    George

    djeggnog posted Fri, 06 Aug 2010 22:41:00 GMT(8/6/2010)

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    @acolytes:

    For a J.W the question needs to be asked how can you say Adam was created perfect. He was created in a dying state, or why would he need eat from the tree of life.

    Adam was created perfect, and not in a dying state. At his creation, no death penalty had been imposed upon him as was the case upon Adam's offspring after he and his wife joined Satan's rebellion against God, so there before him for the prospect of his living forever, not that he possessed the quality of immortality, for obviously he would not have died after 930 years had he been granted immortal. Adam's right to enjoy life was contingent upon his obedience to God, upon his obedience to "every expression" that came from Jehovah’s mouth.

    Actually why do J.ws say Adam was created perfect. There is not one scripture in the bible that says Adam was created perfect.

    At Isaiah 42:5, Jehovah is described as "the One laying out the earth and ... the One giving breath to the people on it, and spirit to those walking in it." Being that Jehovah is "the Creator," we read about Him at Deuteronomy 32:4 that "perfect is his activity" and that "all his ways are justice."

    @Soldier77:

    You bring out a good point, if Adam was created perfect, why did god put in the garden a "Tree of Life™?" He ate from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad™ first, and was punished by being banished from the garden so they could not eat of the Tree of Life and be like god, immortal.

    What "good point" do you mean? You seem to have assumed that God had told Adam or Eve before they were banished from Eden about the existence of a tree of life, but if you were to read the first three chapters of Genesis, you would quickly realize that God only mentions the tree of life when Adam and his wife were being evicted from their garden home. (Genesis 3:22)

    @St George of England:

    After a suitable time to prove his/their [loyalty] by not eating the tree of good/bad, they would be rewarded by being allowed to eat of the tree of life. They would thus be granted immortality which is of course different from just living forever.

    I don't know anything about any "JW answer" to this question, but the Bible answer is that Adam would have been in the same position as will those of us that survive the great tribulation to become the nucleus of the new world: Those that live through the whole of the 1,000-year Judgment Day, are granted the right to live forever after the new scrolls are opened and will have passed the final test of obedience to the things written in those scrolls so that their names come to be "written in the book of life" will gain for themselves the right to live forever. This right is not the same as immortality, since human nature doesn't permit us to be immortal.

    The human body has the amazing ability to renew itself, the cells in the body are either replaced or repaired, and were it not for the wearing out of a genetic material known as "telomeres," self-renewal would go on forever. Death follows as aging is a process that occur when our cells stop dividing, but science has discovered and enzyme called "telomerase," by means of which human cells can continue dividing indefinitely!

    But whether telomerase is all of that which scientists think it to be or not, they still would be unable to keep the life-force in humans operating at full efficiency, for if they could, then worn tissues would continually be replaced or repaired. Adam's skin would never have wrinkled with age, his heart would not have become diseased and his internal organs break down as he got older, maybe becoming deaf or blind. Had Adam been obedient, he would not have died, for God would have sustained his life-force forever!

    So with God taking care to ensure that our life-force doesn't diminish in power, then even though mortal, we would still live forever. Adam's obedience was tested, and so will the obedience of those that survive Judgment Day.

    @Finally-Free:

    If Adam and Eve had any brains at all they would have planned the whole thing a lot better. Before eating from the tree of knowledge, they should have picked several bushels of fruit from the tree of life, eaten some, and hidden the rest just outside the garden. Then, once expelled from the garden, they would still have fruit from the tree of life stashed.

    You assume for whatever reason that Adam and Eve weren't innocent, that they had no guile in them, no desire to scheme any plan against their God and Creator. All was well in Eden until it wasn't, and once they were expelled from their garden home, there was no time for them to do anything but leave.

    As I indicated above, Jehovah had told Adam about the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, but had said nothing at all to him about the tree of life until after they were being evicted, but Jehovah does tell them as to the existence of a "tree of life" so that they would know that they would have given the right to eat from it had they proved to be obedient, just as those that survive Judgment Day will need to pass the final test of obedience to the things written in those scrolls in order to gain the right to eat from the figurative tree of life, that is to say, in order to get their names "written in the book of life."

    @pirata:

    What I don't get is why they didn't eat from the tree of life first, and then the tree of knowledge second.

    Adam and Eve weren't informed by Jehovah as to the existence of the tree of life until after they were being evicted from Eden. From your vantage point, reading the Bible, you are aware of their being a tree of life that God has planted there in Eden. (Genesis 2:9) And whatever it is that would make you think that Adam and Eve possessed the mindset of a criminal that would have been smart enough to scheme and plan in advance of their sin in order to successfully frustrate God from His being able to execute the sentence of death against them, this inclination to sin was simply not in either of them. It was only after they had sinned that their consciences began to make them realize that they were naked and to experience guilt for the very first time as it (their consciences) began to accuse them of sin, so that they then came to know that what they had done was bad.

    @djeggnog

    pirata posted Fri, 06 Aug 2010 23:03:00 GMT(8/6/2010)

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    @djeggnog, thanks for your reply.

    It was only after they had sinned that their consciences began to make them realize that they were naked and to experience guilt for the very first time as it (their consciences) began to accuse them of sin, so that they then came to know that what they had done was bad.

    If Adam and Eve did not know it in advance that it was "bad" to disobey, why were they punished for doing something that they didn't know was wrong?

    djeggnog posted Sat, 07 Aug 2010 06:59:00 GMT(8/7/2010)

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    pirata wrote:

    If Adam and Eve did not know it in advance that it was "bad" to disobey, why were they punished for doing something that they didn't know was wrong?

    Of course, Adam knew before he sinned that what he had done was bad; actually, Eve was deceived, but Adam was not deceived. But the point that I was making here was that they both came to know that they had sinned based upon the way in which they consciences began to accuse and condemn them for what they had done. It's one thing to know that if you are in a supermarket and should take that package of chewing gum from the store shelf, and then put it into one's pocket with paying for it to be wrong, to be stealing. But it is quite another to know after your conscience begins to accuse you of wrongdoing that what you did was a bad thing to do, and I suppose it would be especially taxing on you when the security guard as the supermarket is pulling at your arm to take you into custody for stealing as another security guard contacts the police to report your crime.

    @djeggnog

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