Faithful and Discreet Slave

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    stillin posted Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:52:00 GMT(11/13/2009)

    Post 193 of 1690
    Joined 7/20/2008

    I'm sure that this has been discussed before, but bear with me while I share my little insight.

    The scripture about the FDS is found in Jesus description of the last days in Matthew 24. Not in Mark 13, nor Luke 21. Those other writers didn't consider it important enough to include it in their writings. It is the ONLY mention, as far as I know, of any such "arrangement," yet on face value, if you are just reading the Bible, it seems more like one of Jesus' thought-provoking rhetorical questions, rather than a part of the sign of the last days. No "two or three witnesses," yet this one scripture has become a rallying cry for a whole religion, consisting of MILLIONS of adherents!

    How gullible have I been? I question my own soundness of mind!

    inbetween posted Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:58:00 GMT(11/13/2009)

    Post 62 of 526
    Joined 6/29/2009

    I agree, however, no matter if born-in, like me, or joined later, this scripture is one of the doctrines, that you will hear later in your "biblestudy".

    First they present "truths", with quite some support in the bible, like no trinity, no hellfire, no soul etc..

    Once you accept that, yuo also built trust in the org, for sharing such precious truths, you let your guard down, and the critical thinking behind, then you are ready for all this doctrines, which are very loosely bible-based or just a twist of scriptures like faithful slave, blood, disfellwoshipping etc...

    Chalam posted Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:13:00 GMT(11/13/2009)

    Post 2193 of 4243
    Joined 12/29/2007

    Hi,

    Yes, important point. There are plenty of heretical groups that go off on huge red herring over a single verse.

    Take this one for example

    1 Corinthians 15:29 (New International Version)

    29 Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?

    Mormons think that they can baptise on behalf of the dead, even though over this single verse.

    Now back the the "FDS", if you read the passage it is clear it is not talking about an organisation or even a single person.

    Matthew 24:36-51 (English Standard Version)

    No One Knows That Day and Hour
    36 "But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. 37 For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. 42 Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

    45 "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 47 Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. 48 But if that wicked servant says to himself, 'My master is delayed,' 49 and begins to beat his fellow servants and eats and drinks with drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know 51 and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    The faithful and wise servant is anyone who continues being responsible over the affairs of the Master.

    If you read the next chapter, there is clearly more that one faithful servant Matthew 25

    Anyhow, don't beat yourself up, many others have been tricked and bewitched by the WT. Just make sure you stop serving this false master ASAP.

    Blessings,

    Stephen

    stillin posted Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:15:00 GMT(11/13/2009)

    Post 194 of 1690
    Joined 7/20/2008

    thanks, Stephen. It sounds like you've done some thinking. While i'm here, I wanted to tell you that I appreciate your Christian perspective here.

    Stillin

    palmtree67 posted Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:18:00 GMT(11/13/2009)

    Post 986 of 4634
    Joined 4/4/2009

    What are the affairs of the Master that we are repsonsible for?

    stillin posted Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:25:00 GMT(11/13/2009)

    Post 195 of 1690
    Joined 7/20/2008

    I was thinking that it just meant that each of us should look out for the other. Silly me.

    diamondiiz posted Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:29:00 GMT(11/13/2009)

    Post 249 of 1522
    Joined 3/15/2009

    That's how wts operates, they transform themselves into an angel of light appearing to be so holy and only deeper research reveals their true self. If anything they are the true apostate religion and 2Th 2:3 applies to them.

    Let no one seduce YOU in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. 4 He is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called “god” or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god.

    A believer or not, one could apply this scripture to wts' gb and it would fit so well. How watchtower depicts gb is so disgusting! They claim that God and Christ both trust these leaders, they claim that others don't have mediator but only they - yes fds does but any other partakers are questioned as to their validity of being true annointed but for some reason no one can question the validity of gb! Anyone can call others by whatever name but you call gb member a deregatory name and you're from the devil :) FDS was only an illustration used by Christ which doesn't apply to some special group of people, and it DOESN"T APPLY TO GB!!!!

    palmtree67 posted Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:37:00 GMT(11/13/2009)

    Post 987 of 4634
    Joined 4/4/2009

    stillin,

    I sort of think it's more than that. But I don't think it's all the petty rules and regulations the GB puts forward.

    I think we have to be pro-active in applying Jesus counsel, but is there more?

    stillin posted Fri, 13 Nov 2009 22:49:00 GMT(11/13/2009)

    Post 196 of 1690
    Joined 7/20/2008

    I'm sure the Bible is deep enough to satisfy the deepest thinkers. I just wonder why we need all of the help in figuring it out if it's God's Word to Mankind?

    M Billy the Ex-Bethelite posted Sat, 14 Nov 2009 00:39:00 GMT(11/14/2009)

    Post 2190 of 7284
    Joined 11/29/2007

    Actually stillin, it is in Luke 12. Take a look and see if you can figure out why Watchtower Corp. almost never uses this paragraph...

    (Luke 12:41-48) 41 Then Peter said: “Lord, are you saying this illustration to us or also to all?” 42 And the Lord said: “Who really is the faithful steward, the discreet one, whom his master will appoint over his body of attendants to keep giving them their measure of food supplies at the proper time? 43 Happy is that slave, if his master on arriving finds him doing so! 44 I tell YOU truthfully, He will appoint him over all his belongings. 45 But if ever that slave should say in his heart, ‘My master delays coming,’ and should start to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46 the master of that slave will come on a day that he is not expecting [him] and in an hour that he does not know, and he will punish him with the greatest severity and assign him a part with the unfaithful ones. 47 Then that slave that understood the will of his master but did not get ready or do in line with his will will be beaten with many strokes. 48 But the one that did not understand and so did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few. Indeed, everyone to whom much was given, much will be demanded of him; and the one whom people put in charge of much, they will demand more than usual of him.

    This is obviously the same message, but presented such that Watchtower Corporation doesn't want to use it. Here it is all one paragraph, straightforward context, rather than broken up into little paragraphs that the GB can easily snip out as in Matthew. In the paragraph in Luke, it is clearly an illustration, one in a series of illustrations. IT IS NOT A PROPHECY. And where Matthew describes the "evil slave" and the GB says that's another "class", here in Luke it is "that slave". It is the very same slave that had been faithful and discreet but became unfaithful. No room for the idea of two "classes", it's just an illustration of one being faithful and responsible or not.

    wantingtruth posted Sat, 14 Nov 2009 00:41:00 GMT(11/14/2009)

    Post 43 of 235
    Joined 3/22/2009

    I came to know one of these "faithful and discreet slave "

    stillin posted Sat, 14 Nov 2009 01:10:00 GMT(11/14/2009)

    Post 197 of 1690
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    thanks, Billy. I stand corrected. But it seems all the more unseemly that ONLY the verse in Matthew is used, very likely for the reasons you present. I would think that the pubs would be grasping at straws to "firmly establish" the scriptural support for the placing of a faithful and discreet slave in the last days. Their existence seems to be a "given fact." Never question this. Only death awaits those that question...

    M Billy the Ex-Bethelite posted Sat, 14 Nov 2009 02:13:00 GMT(11/14/2009)

    Post 2195 of 7284
    Joined 11/29/2007

    For Watchtower Corporation, establishing the "Faithful and Discreet Slave", well, at least the words are there... once.

    "Governing Body". Now that is totally and completely contrived. Not in the Bible in word or concept. They use the entire weight of their authority to get the r&f to believe that there was and is supposed to be some GB. "Organization", not in there either.

    M AllTimeJeff posted Sat, 14 Nov 2009 02:52:00 GMT(11/14/2009)

    Post 3611 of 5826
    Joined 11/9/2006

    Without one verse in Mt 24:45, Jehovah's Witnesses and the hiearchy behind it would not exist.

    Whether JW's ever consider that verse as such doesn't matter. It is very powerful as far as bible exegesis and JW's are concerned.

    One verse gone out of the bible, and the GB goes bye bye.

    Lillith26 posted Sat, 14 Nov 2009 03:09:00 GMT(11/14/2009)

    Post 552 of 711
    Joined 5/26/2009

    If it were only that simple Jeff...

    One verse gone out of the bible, and the GB goes bye bye.

    *sigh*........... frustrating isn't it?

    M AllTimeJeff posted Sat, 14 Nov 2009 03:10:00 GMT(11/14/2009)

    Post 3613 of 5826
    Joined 11/9/2006

    Yup lilllith. Amazing what you will believe when you pull the circuit breaker on your brain....

    Chalam posted Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:28:00 GMT(11/14/2009)

    Post 2207 of 4243
    Joined 12/29/2007

    Hello Stillin,

    thanks, Stephen. It sounds like you've done some thinking. While i'm here, I wanted to tell you that I appreciate your Christian perspective here.

    Many thanks-my pleasure.

    My advise is to keep reading the bible and ask the Holy Spirit to give you more insights!

    Keep us posted as to what you find :)

    Blessings,

    Stephen

    Bonnie_Clyde posted Sat, 14 Nov 2009 23:56:00 GMT(11/14/2009)

    Post 1314 of 1762
    Joined 8/9/2003
    "The scripture about the FDS is found in Jesus description of the last days in Matthew 24. Not in Mark 13, nor Luke 21. Those other writers didn't consider it important enough to include it in their writings."

    Luke 12:42,43: "Who really is the faithful steward, the discreet one, whom his master will appoint over his body of attendants to keep giving them their measure of food at the proper time? Happy is that slave, if his master on arriving finds him doing so!"

    No Longer Held Captive posted Sun, 15 Nov 2009 00:47:00 GMT(11/15/2009)

    Post 51 of 113
    Joined 11/5/2009

    Dear friends, Luke 12 really does say it all, and when we read this, we find that the slave is only "called". 10 are called. But, this is not literal. It is the complete number of slaves that will be used from the time of Christs departure from this earth until he received his kingship and final return. The number could be 10, 1000, 100000, we dont know, but its just the number christ needs to do his work from time of his departure until he would arrive again at the very conclusion. And, on that return, those slaves that were called, are called to give an account, some will obviously be faithful and receive a reward based on that faithful service, some will be beaten severely and thrown outside with the remainder of the hypocrites, and some beaten with fewer strokes. So, this whole notion of the wbts being that slave is false, as that slave has not been appointed yet, and receives no such appointment until the end, and even so, to be appointed over all the things, he must be really exceptional, and I thin k we all agree, that the wbts are in no way exceptional, and have in no way acted like a br of Christ in their dealings with their fellow slaves, and their reward can only be one of that of the reward the wicked slave receives. And the modern faithful slave must call out all he sees, he is a modern day watchman, and he must preach in spirit and in truth, and preach to everyone for what is about to come.

    The wbts maintain this to be christendom, but that just cannot be, as they have been apostate since inception, but this wicked slave, he is like our man judas, and the wicked slave is a modern day one.

    Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21

    The Books of Daniel, Ezekiel and Revelation

    Appointment of the faithful slave

    These are still all future, but near, and all fall into one time span and category, its sad how millions have fallen prey to the teachings of this mob.

    And congregations in the time of Paul etc, were just house churches, a place were people met to discuss the holy writings and to be up built. Just small groups.

    Satan really has worked a fly one, and has duped millions, and the wbts is just another one of his mainstream religions, and he has even used Jehovahs name, as well as that of Christ to dupe millions, for the good news of the kingdom is still future and falls inside the Matthew 24 time slot, and this is to be preached by the true slaves, the ones who, like elijah and moses, will lead all kinds of men back to Jehovah before the end time begins, which begins after the call of peace goes forward, then like the 10 plagues which afflicted ancient egypt, the bowls of Gods wrath will then be poured out on the last king and all those that received his mark.

    Maybe you will think that this is extreme to say that the wbts is a tool of Satan, but remember how this guy thinks.

    And, it might be, that until now, that the real desirable things of all the nations are being rocked brought out, the ones crying out, the ones telling out the very truth, even in the face of extreme predjudice and persecution, and that means some of you.........some of you, could very well be the holy ones of God.

    Special thanks to Billy and Jeff

    stillin posted Sun, 15 Nov 2009 03:55:00 GMT(11/15/2009)

    Post 199 of 1690
    Joined 7/20/2008

    can't help but wonder...

    who, really. IS this faithful and discreet slave? Am I being fed this "food at the proper time" by the wtbs or by somebody else... somebody less obvious, even a composite "somebody" comprised of (gasp!) even some of the ones posting on an apostate site like this!!!

    Since Jesus posed it as a question, shouldn't I be asking the same question?

    I wouldn't be so foolish as to think that all posts here are "wise" or divinely inspired, dam, some of you all go so far as to mock the inconsistencies in the Bible, way beyond me to judge one way or the other. But, no denying that there is some plain old good sense being made here.

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