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Our Kingdom Ministry 2009 tells sick & infirm NOT to view telephone hook-up as convenient alternative to being “personally present” at KH!

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    LUKEWARM posted Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:43:00 GMT(11/5/2009)

    Post 306 of 441
    Joined 3/9/2009

    I am feeling sick after reading the question box - it's so cold and unfeeling toward those who use the telephone to listen to congregation meetings.

    The WTS desire to control their weakest members - the infirm and chronically ill - by guilting them into "putting forth the effort to be personally present " at the kingdom hall is disgusting.

    They are heartless bastards...

    ________________________________________

    Question Box:
    Why is there a need for good judgement in connection with the use of a telephone hook-up for congregation meetings?

    Many congregations have made it possible for individuals who at times are unable to attend congregation meetings at the kingdom hall because of illness or some other unavoidable circumstance to listen to the meeting at home by means of a telephone hook-up. Ensuring that this loving provision is used by those who are truly in need requires good judgement and careful organization. Hence, the elders overseeing such an arrangement would want to organize and monitor its use so that "all things take place decently and by arrangement." 1 Cor. 14:40.

    Elders will see to it that priority is given to publishers in their congregation with chronic illness or infirmity or who are otherwise shut-in. A publisher temporarily ill or incapacitated, or a progressive Bible student who may be shut-in, might likewise benefit from this provision and be included in the attendance count. Where there are not enough telephone lines to accommodate those with a legitimate need, perhaps other arrangements, such as providing them with a recording of the meeting, can be made.

    Of course, nothing can compare to the benefits derived from being personally present at our meetings. Our direct association with our brothers results in "an interchange of encouragement" and helps new ones better appreciate the need to attend. When we are present at our meetings, we absorb far more from demonstrations, the elders are able to give us personal assistance, and we experience firsthand the warm love of the brotherhood. True indeed are the sentiments of one elderly sister who, after receiving a hug as she was exiting the kingdom hall exclaimed: "You can't get this over the phone line!" - Rom. 1:11,12

    Like Anna "who was never missing from the temple", today, many of our older ones are regularly on hand at Christian meetings as their health and circumstances allow. (Luke 2:36,37) While using the telephone hook-up when necessary, they do not view it as a convenient alternative to attending meetings at the Kingdom Hall. In imitation of their fine example, may we continue to delight in putting forth the effort to be personally present at our meetings as we worship our great God, Jehovah. - Ps. 95:1-3, 6; 122:1.

    M slimboyfat posted Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:48:00 GMT(11/5/2009)

    Post 3454 of 8459
    Joined 11/24/2004

    You can imagine Jaracz banging his fist on the table when he heard the "slackers" were using the old phone-up-instead-of-attend-the-meeting trick.

    F yknot posted Thu, 05 Nov 2009 10:07:00 GMT(11/5/2009)

    Post 5414 of 9299
    Joined 8/24/2007

    grrrrr....... most of my KH hook-ups are due to those bastards doing away with the daytime bookstudy! It just isn't safe for these of the most dedicated souls to be driving at night!!!

    Teddie J, Jack, & Pierce wouldn't be doing so well if they were to return to the lives of regular publishers!

    ufo1 posted Thu, 05 Nov 2009 10:50:00 GMT(11/5/2009)

    Post 7 of 25
    Joined 8/24/2009

    Of course, nothing can compare to the benefits derived from being personally present at our meetings. Our direct association with our brothers results in "an interchange of encouragement" and helps new ones better appreciate the need to attend. When we are present at our meetings, we absorb far more from demonstrations, the elders are able to give us personal assistance, and we experience firsthand the warm love of the brotherhood. True indeed are the sentiments of one elderly sister who, after receiving a hug as she was exiting the kingdom hall exclaimed: "You can't get this over the phone line!" - Rom. 1:11,12

    Elders are able to give personal assistance? We experience firsthand the warm love of the brotherhood?

    I thought the Bible said that the sheppard would leave the 99 to find the 1. What is more loving, going to visit and care for the sick or inferm, or wait for them to come back and prove their loyality and then tell them "We missed you".

    I'm all for the hugs and human contact as it is so important, however if some one is trully sick I don't want to hug them. After all you can't catch a bug over the phone line.

    M Black Sheep posted Thu, 05 Nov 2009 11:31:00 GMT(11/5/2009)

    Post 3604 of 9998
    Joined 8/8/2003
    The WTS desire to control their weakest members - the infirm and chronically ill - by guilting them into "putting forth the effort to be personally present " at the kingdom hall is disgusting.

    Don't stretch the truth. It gives us Apostates a bad look.

    Elders will see to it that priority is given to publishers in their congregation with chronic illness or infirmity or who are otherwise shut-in.

    LUKEWARM posted Thu, 05 Nov 2009 11:45:00 GMT(11/5/2009)

    Post 309 of 441
    Joined 3/9/2009

    Black Sheep
    Seems to me they are talking out of both sides of their mouth - "priority" on the one side but then towards the end of the article they don't want them on the end of the phone at all times - they want them at the meeting "as their health and circumstances allow"...


    "Like Anna "who was never missing from the temple", today, many of our older ones are regularly on hand at Christian meetings as their health and circumstances allow. (Luke 2:36,37) While using the telephone hook-up when necessary,they do not view it as a convenient alternative to attending meetings at the Kingdom Hall. In imitation of their fine example, may we continue to delight in putting forth the effort to be personally present at our meetings as we worship our great God, Jehovah. - Ps. 95:1-3, 6; 122:1."

    M jambon1 posted Thu, 05 Nov 2009 11:46:00 GMT(11/5/2009)

    Post 776 of 1009
    Joined 2/7/2006

    Is anyone really surprised at this?

    The WTS has guilted men, women & children for decades. Why should old/sick/infirm people get away with it.

    The organisation is rotten to the core & when it spits out this kind of utter bullshit I pause every single time & appreciate just how much it means to me not to have to be a part of it all.

    Horrible.

    F blondie posted Thu, 05 Nov 2009 12:21:00 GMT(11/5/2009)

    Post 27908 of 37440
    Joined 5/28/2001

    The congregations around here have a phone system that allows unlimited call-ins on an automated system. All you need is phone number and password. Now everyone who wants to get password and call in has to meet with an elder and be vetted each time they want to use the system. One brother told me that his parents (in their 90's) have to personally check in each time, he can't do it for them. Attendance has dropped off as many choose to stay home and not go through the hoops.

    M Black Sheep posted Thu, 05 Nov 2009 12:30:00 GMT(11/5/2009)

    Post 3608 of 9998
    Joined 8/8/2003

    What concerns me is fellow Apostates waving this OKM around as some sort of evidence that the WT is a hard hearted pack of bar stewards when the article proves nothing of the sort.

    The WT usually leaves themselves loopholes and this advisory is no different. I certainly won't be discussing this OKM with my family.

    M sir82 posted Thu, 05 Nov 2009 13:51:00 GMT(11/5/2009)

    Post 3537 of 9004
    Joined 5/17/2005

    In years past, phoning into the meeting was limited by technology - at the Kingdom Hall I attended in the 90's there was a maximum of 4 lines that could call in.

    Now, throughout most if not all of the US, there is a teleconferencing service (owned & operated by "brothers") that allows dozens to call in. There is a limit, but I don't recall what it is, maybe 30 or 40. Now, in our congregation, there are regularly 10,12, 15, maybe even 20 who call in to listen to the meetings. I have to imagine that is pretty typical.

    As SBF noted above, it is very easy to imagine the hardliners railing long & hard about "slackers" and "laziness" and "taking the easy way out". The higher up the JW chain of command you go, the more contempt you find for the "little people".

    M undercover posted Thu, 05 Nov 2009 14:12:00 GMT(11/5/2009)

    Post 7881 of 13134
    Joined 9/25/2002
    What concerns me is fellow Apostates waving this OKM around as some sort of evidence that the WT is a hard hearted pack of bar stewards when the article proves nothing of the sort.

    I respectfully disagree to a point. This is typical cult BS. It's slyly worded but upon closer inspection their true motive shows. They cannot control people when they aren't at the meetings. It's not just the talks or the so-called information in those talks. It's the entire experience that keeps you indoctrinated. The peer pressure of other JWs in attendance. The elders looking over your shoulder. You can't get these sitting at home, drifting off to sleep while some 12 year old reads Numbers chapter 3.

    Notice that they actually say in the article "nothing compares to being at the meetings personally". This is the sly method of using guilt to pressure people to not rely on the phone system but drag their sorry ass to the hall.

    No, it's not the scandal of the decade, but it is one in a long list of examples of how the Society uses guilt to control the flock.

    Another way of looking at it... How many articles that mention the infrim and elderly actually talk about charity and the congregation looking after them and feeding them, and assisiting them? Very few, if any. Christian charity among their own is not important as meeting attendance.

    I do agree that this isn't the article to show active JWs just what a cult the JWs are. Instead it's more proof to outsiders and ex-JWs how manipulative the Society can be when trying to control its members.

    M dozy posted Thu, 05 Nov 2009 14:35:00 GMT(11/5/2009)

    Post 535 of 1500
    Joined 2/18/2006

    Where the numbers who can dial in are restricted it can be a bit of a nightmare for the elders to determine who is "worthy" & who isn't. With the ageing JW membership (in the western world) and the increasing number of JWs with ME / chronic fatigue or other undefinable illnesses and allergies (real or imagined) , in some congregations there are 20 or 30 "listener ins".

    I did notice at the last district assembly I attended that there were numerous JWs sitting (or sleeping) in their cars listening to the program on the radio. Beats sitting on a hard plastic seat between Sister Flatulence & Brother B.O. I'm sure the writing committee have their pencils sharpened to condemn this method of slacking as well.

    F Mary posted Thu, 05 Nov 2009 14:44:00 GMT(11/5/2009)

    Post 10800 of 12737
    Joined 6/26/2002

    Do they truly not have anything else to worry about at Crooklyn than this bullshit?

    milola posted Thu, 05 Nov 2009 14:50:00 GMT(11/5/2009)

    Post 64 of 190
    Joined 3/21/2009

    I am so sorry lukewarm, but I do not see what you apparently see in this article. It looks to me that they have no problem with shutins or temp. ill people using the phone. I read it to say that they think one gets more out of a meeting if they are there in person. Once again, I am sorry but if you can point out exactly what I am missing I would appreciate it.

    And while I am ranting, I think there is plenty wrong with the Jehovah's Witnesses to not resort to trivial complaints.

    F nelly136 posted Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:11:00 GMT(11/5/2009)

    Post 2574 of 3747
    Joined 12/14/2000

    ***or a progressive Bible student who may be shut-in,***

    hot lines to the local prison?

    brother and sister incontinent.( hell theyre not getting in my car!) give em a phone line dammit.

    dgp posted Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:15:00 GMT(11/5/2009)

    Post 37 of 2764
    Joined 7/8/2009

    I agree with Undercover. What happens is that they want the people to attend the meeting. If they allowed everyone to just call or use a teleconference, how many wouldn't take advantage of the chance NOT TO BE THERE, and fake they are listening? How would they prevent people from having an easy time fading? If the sick have a right to stay home and call in, how many will pretend to be sick? This is a move to control you people.

    Just for the sake of comparison, the Catholic Chuch has let the sick to listen to the mass on the radio. There are regular broadcasts in every country. And the pope gives his "urbi et orbi" mass, and you're supposed to benefit from it just by turning on the TV. In every parish, there are groups organized for the specific purpose of visiting the sick and the elderly. A priest will take the host home if you need it. My purpose with this is not to say that the Catholic Church is best, or to find fault with individual witnesses. My purpose is to show the obvious: that it is possible to act otherwise if you just want to. They don't care after the sick.

    They just want to make damned sure that only the very sick will miss a meeting. Only those who just can't be there will miss a meeting, and, even in that case, they will HAVE to listen to it.

    F blondie posted Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:20:00 GMT(11/5/2009)

    Post 27912 of 37440
    Joined 5/28/2001

    Just to emphasize the point I made, the elders in this area control the password. They change it frequently. Even if you have the phone number, you can't access the meeting without the password. You can't get the password unless you go to an elder to get it. You can't get the password unless the elder judges that your situation warrants it. And you have to do this for every meeting. It is proving to be quite an irritant for older jws and the family that help them. The older jw has to make the request directly, their adult jw children cannot do it for them. I guess too many people were calling in that the elders did not think needed to.

    minimus posted Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:20:00 GMT(11/5/2009)

    Post 28827 of 36341
    Joined 7/3/2002

    My mom has been on the phone for years. She probably goes to the Memorial and maybe the Special Talk if she can. This will make her feel like sh&t.

    I think it's also about $$$. If people aren't there, they aren't giving.

    Mad Sweeney posted Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:36:00 GMT(11/5/2009)

    Post 11 of 6963
    Joined 11/2/2009

    The motivation for this is twofold.

    One, as mentioned, is the control issue. Indoctrination depends a lot on peer pressure that you can only receive as part of the group.

    Two, which I didn't notice being mentioned in the thread is the $money$ issue. If you are phoning in from home you have no access to the contribution box.

    WTWizard posted Thu, 05 Nov 2009 16:12:00 GMT(11/5/2009)

    Post 8940 of 14942
    Joined 5/10/2007

    Well, that leaves the Internet. And that's how I get my "spiritual food", usually months ahead of when the active witlesses even hear about it. And, not only the hounders can't do a damn thing about it, but I get to make whatever comments I feel like that will undermine what the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger is trying to tell me.

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