Regarding Quoting Scriptures All the Time

Are you really thinking for yourself when you quote scriptures all the time as your personal answer?

I bring this up for two reasons: First and foremost, it became almost a game in JW land, a competition to see who had the better (WT approved) passage when something came up.

Almost always of course, if it was "of this world", well, we know the NWT in particular is full of how bad "the world" is. (i.e. can't be part of "this world") Its BAD!

The 2nd is, it still seems to be the way to think for some who leave.

It seems apparent to me that indoctrination was very much in play, and still is. JW's, like most other Christian religions, take the bible, and use it to justify anything and anything regarding their dogma.

Also, it just as easily turns off the individuals ability to think for oneself  As in "I could think this question/issue/situation out for myself, but instead, I have this handy scripture someone gave me. Nothing says it better then the bible."

Really? I don't' think that at all.

The bible is full of familiar quotes. In the Christian world, it is the authority. As if quoting a scripture automatically closes the discussion. More and more though, where scripture alone is used, I think it all the more proper to question both the scripture and the one who uses it as their authority.

Mis-conceptions about the bible have resulted in the mistreatment of minorities, women, scientists, ever since the 4th century AD. It was only when the bible was questioned as the ultimate source of all authority that progress in science and civil rights took place.

So why still rely on it when it has proven to be more of an impediment then a source of wisdom?

By the way, I find great value personally in Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and the Gospels. I pick and choose what interests me personally without apology. But I never use or would presume to think that because I know my bible, that a quote from the books I like and value should matter to you. If in a discussion, I simply quote scripture, I think the only thing that would say about me is "I haven't really thought this through, I will use someone else's words."

And that would be man's words, not gods....

Just wanted to throw that out there.

Hi Jeff,

I love the bible as you know. However, I love the Holy Spirit too.

Where you get an inbalance of one verses the other you run into problems.

Too much word and not enough Holy Spirit leads to legalism.

Too much Holy Spirit and not enough word has its own problems, no point of reference and things can get skewed.

The JWs have their word tampered with and zero Holy Spirit so they are total legalists and zero understanding, see below.

I'll leave you with these verses which illustrate what I am saying :)

1 Corinthians 2:14 (New International Version)

2 Corinthians 3:6 (New International Version)

hi alltimejeff

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

lol couldn't resist ^^ can you say bahhh humbug!!!

Reniaa

Hi Stephen

Another familiar and used argument is that holy spirit is needed to understand. What is missing is any discernable criteria by "god" to interpret scripture.

And it is precisely that god is so unclear so as to 1. Spell things out in the first place and 2. Indiscriminatlely give holy spirit to one, but not the other, that makes the quoting of scriptures as the end all/be all so unbalanced and unnecesarry.

I will take each scripture:

1 Corinthians 2:14 (New International Version)

Hi Reinna

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

lol couldn't resist ^^ can you say bahhh humbug!!!

Really? I have NEVER heard this scripture before. NEVER! Thanks so much for bringing it to my attention. This answers EVERYTHING!

I got sick and tired of hearing certain scriptures.  Hebrews 10:25 was particulary nauseous after a while.

I agree Jeff

quoting scriptures all the time is, imo, like being on the broad road, whilst thinking for oneself and weighing up concepts and interpretations is akin to going in through the narrow gate - maybe?   

Jesus did not go around quoting from scrolls all the time but showed people how to think and act

And we know that "all scripture is inspired" because the Faithful and Discreet Slave have told us this is so.

Also, the Faithful and Discreet Slave that Jesus has entrusted with dominating the sheeples has been guided by God's spirit to tell the flockregation to not do any outside research. The dublishers are lovingly instructed that any questions not printed at the bottom of the Botchtower litteratrash pages are apostate!

I now have "scripture amnesia" .......I totally blanked out all scriptures from my mind.

Thanks for the reply Jeff. Will try and respond to you thoughts and questions...

Another familiar and used argument is that holy spirit is needed to understand. What is missing is any discernable criteria by "god" to interpret scripture.

And it is precisely that god is so unclear so as to 1. Spell things out in the first place and 2. Indiscriminatlely give holy spirit to one, but not the other, that makes the quoting of scriptures as the end all/be all so unbalanced and unnecesarry.

I understand point 1. The bible is not totally spelled out, I agree. Also, it appears contradictory but it isn't! The contradiction disappears with the Spirit's teaching. I know you are not going to take too well but I tell you that from practice. I had a load of problems with the bible about four years ago when I started reading, especially the OT-all the apparent condemnation, judgement and harshness etc. Now I have very few biblical issues. That is first and foremost because of revelation of the Holy Spirit through the scriptures.

OK regarding the bible, it is an essential tool, but we are to live by the Spirit. More on how the two interact later.

Point 2. I believe that God's Spirit is poured out on all flesh as Joel, Acts 2 says. In practice, He speaks to all of us. If we listen and have faith is Jesus we are born again. Then He comes to live inside of us. We still have our free will. We can choose to listen or not but He is constantly around to give insight, council, wisdom, hope, love etc.

I will take each scripture:

1 Corinthians 2:14 (New International Version)

Jeff, your problem is that the scriptures being quoted are all really boring!  Try these for a laugh:

2 Chr. 36:9Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.  Lesson- Eight year olds can be evil too!

2 Chr. 16:12And Asa in the thirty and ninth year of his reign was diseased in his feet, until his disease was exceeding great: yet in his disease he sought not to the LORD, but to the physicians.  Lesson- Don't go to the doctor!

Psalms 78:66And he smote his enemies in the hinder parts: he put them to a perpetual reproach.  Lesson- God kicks ass!  Or makes hemorrhoids!  (lol!  Reminds me of Dr. Evil!)

Proverbs 12:21There shall no evil happen to the just: but the wicked shall be filled with mischief.  Lesson- If you suffer misfortune, it's your own damn fault!

Song of Solomon 8:8We have a little sister, and she hath no breasts: what shall we do for our sister in the day when she shall be spoken for?  Lesson?  Um, not so sure...

Dave

Totally agree with you AllTimeJeff but I just can't help myself and bring up this scripture and apply it to all the prooftexters:

"When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me." (1 Corinthians 13:11)

Some people just don't grow up.

Villabolo 

"Song of Solomon 8:8We have a little sister, and she hath no breasts: what shall we do for our sister in the day when she shall be spoken for?  Lesson?  Um, not so sure..."

I know the lesson is:  Let's take pity on the flatchested chick because big tits are better for catching a husband.  It's always about the man's needs.

Josie

When I see someone answering with scriptures I just pass right over it.

If they can't answer like a human being it is of no interest to me.

If someone uses a very short scripture to make a point or as a documentation...and they don't make a habit of it, I will probably read it.

Lol!  Josie, I think you may have a point there! 

Dave

Lol!  Josie, I think you may have a point there! 

Josie, I think that would be two points

ATJ..The WBT$ could care less what the Bible has to say..

The WBT$ uses the Bible,to back up anything the WBT$ prints.....As we have often seen..The WBT$ will take scripture out of context.....And..Mold it to back up a WBT$ teaching..

Then years down the road reverse a decission about a teaching..Then back up the reversed decission,with the Bible..

The Bible did`nt change..The WBT$ use for the Bible did...

                                                                          ...........................................OUTLAW

Chalam,

I understand point 1. The bible is not totally spelled out, I agree. Also, it appears contradictory but it isn't! The contradiction disappears with the Spirit's teaching.

Unproveable. Contradictions don't disappear because someone gives personal revelation. It says to me that, even if you are right (and you are not) that god plays a very cruel cat and mouse game with how we get to know him, and who he actually allows to know him, given this contrived formula you postualte.

Point 2. I believe that God's Spirit is poured out on all flesh as Joel, Acts 2 says. In practice, He speaks to all of us. If we listen and have faith is Jesus we are born again. Then He comes to live inside of us.

Unproveable, and disputed as to how this works by the various Christian religions. Your view is no more or no less to be considered "gospel" then their's.

Being born again? Another widely interpreted concept. And therin lies the problem. Always interpretation is needed. There is no good reason for "god" to do it this way. Your interpretation Chalam, no matter how sincere, is just that, just another interpretation.

To be honest this is WT teaching that only "resoning the scriptures" is necessary with our minds. They want to keep us from the Holy Spirit who is the only one who can bring revelation to our spirit.

Interesting take on the WTBTS. I think they don't give a shit about anything but themselves. Holy spirit is a bait and switch tactic. Trust me, they have seen too much of their own BS blow up in their face to believe in it that much.....

You need the Holy Spirit to understand spiritual things. The bible is a spiritual book first and foremost, not a history book, a book of rules or good ideas etc but a book about God who is Spirit.

No, the simple direct answer is the correct one. The "answer" to the contradictions and ambiguity being holy spirit providing revelation is a convenient cop out. The bible is as it appears to be: 66 seperate works strung together in an odd coincidence of antiquity. 2000 years after its completion, and 1600 years after being made into its final form, we are still stuck in this society with the erroneous idea that it has value, merit, when history teaches that it merits nothing more then scorn.

The bible is a mish mash of superstition. Your argument about holy spirit misses the point. You acknowledge, even tacitly, that it can't be taken at face value. Even though we were created by god to accept things at face value. Which leads to this interesting analogy....

No, questions are good to a point but you need to put them aside sometimes and suspend your disbelief, at least for a while. I am sure you can relate to that as I remember that being necessary on several occasions when learning sciences and stuff at school.  

No, questions at school were told that they would be answered in time, not put off until some power inhabited our minds. One fact leads to another.

The bible does not suffer from this burden, relating to facts as to its claims. They are nothing more then claims of a superstitious, supernatural nature. There are no "facts" involved. Holy Spirit is something to hide behind when you run out of falsly premised explanations.

The letter spoke of here is the Law, the OT dos and dont's. We are call to live by the Spirit in the new covenant through Jesus. The law brings death, no-one is saved through it, is just points out what sin is. The rebirth of the Spirit brings life.

Huh? Thats really bad news for the millions of Israelites who (supposedly) lived out a milleniums old drama for the benefit of us today? Bull! If that is true, how in the hell would I be drawn to god? It simply isn't necesarry for god to teach in this manner.

However, men, perpetuating a myth, do need the cover of milleniums to adapt their superstition to a new generation who wants to rely on others instead of their own mind.

¹²For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

 

So why quote it in the first place?

Hopefully you are getting a hint of the answer that question now?

 No, the bible doesn't do that. Their is no holy spirit that does this. And your hiding behind scriptures, with all respect, continues to raise more questions. Or to be more blunt, it absolutely proves that the bible is anything but the inspired word of a supernatural god.

ATJ

Deputy Dog, what I find interesting is that you and others would mock me for my reading the bible over TWENTY (20) TIMES and then have the balls to say that I have little understanding of what I am quoting.

Good luck on that one.