Be realistic in 2009! Why Politics will NEVER turn on Religion in our society!


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    M Witness 007 posted Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:04:00 GMT(6/15/2009)

    Post 3963 of 5628
    Joined 8/28/2007

    Communism is dead and the USA is a strongly Christian, tolarant, democratic nation, it just won't happen here. Muslim nations are fanatical about their chance. It's silly to think of religions as a whole being banned....this is just a Witness bad dream, never happen in a million years.

    F reniaa posted Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:36:00 GMT(6/15/2009)

    Post 1318 of 2220
    Joined 3/11/2008

    You wanna bet on this witness007?

    Sometimes fulfillment is never how we expect it to happen, and turning on religion could be done slowly and subtly.

    Jews to this day are still waiting for an actual messiah to overthrow rome :)

    C. T. Russell posted Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:48:00 GMT(6/15/2009)

    Post 122 of 184
    Joined 4/21/2009

    I’m not so sure anymore. There are Atheist bus ads in Indiana now. Just 30yrs ago this would have triggered riots in the streets. With all night vigils live on the news. And lots of footage of tearful women praying, ala The Last Temptation of Christ movie protest.

    Now people don’t care. Every religious protest you see is always those Westboro Baptist nuts who travel everywhere. You just don’t see community outrage nowadays. I don’t think you can say the US is strongly Christian anymore. There is allot of lip service from politicians, but it’s mostly just tiptoeing around older voters. How many in government actually go to church anymore unless it’s a staged event. At work I have yet to meet person under the age of 25 that isn’t atheist. Under 35 they are agnostic or atheist.

    I don’t see a ban on religion happening anytime soon. But I can see taxation happening. That alone will send the Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts types running. It would also put a damper on new churches or groups being formed. And then combine that with regular declines in attendance. I don’t think it will be dramatic. Probably just some minor tax on some aspect of religion. But like most taxes the government will keep revisiting the well.

    For example they could tax property that isn’t used for worship and is not public use. In that way they are not taxing the “Church”or “Place of Worship”, just the corporate offices. How many churches have large corporate offices and high rise residences? Can you think of any?

    isaacaustin posted Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:50:00 GMT(6/15/2009)

    Post 1378 of 6449
    Joined 4/21/2005

    exactly how it plays out remains to be seen. Certainly it will not be the political powers destroying all relgions except the one associated with the WT....prompting God to step in to protect his people (the JWs)- as the WT claims...

    isaacaustin posted Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:51:00 GMT(6/15/2009)

    Post 1379 of 6449
    Joined 4/21/2005

    taxation on religion would really be the best and most effective way to hit them.

    sammielee24 posted Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:01:00 GMT(6/15/2009)

    Post 3502 of 7895
    Joined 12/9/2004

    Politics and religion are interwined and one doesn't live without the other. All religion is political in and of itself - including the WTS which has a leader and voted membership. The WTS has a Judicial Committee which is itself a legalistic tool just as a judge and jury are. The hierarchy of the WTS is the same as a government - President, VP etc. The WTS is no less legalistic and political than any other corporation and in fact, most religions offer some sort of carrot to it's followers in order to keep stringing them. Some of that is tradition, some of that is promise of something much better if you just wait around long enough. Anyone in a religion that prays and hopes that government will turn on it, will eventually either have new light or just drop the whole idea when the membership demands it - they will dangle another carrot while burying that one.

    People who wait on Jehovah to come calling, who wait for tomorrow instead of loving today - are to be pitied for wasting what should be a wonderful life on a beautiful planet. sammieswife.

    M BurnTheShips posted Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:23:00 GMT(6/15/2009)

    Post 10863 of 17938
    Joined 8/28/2006
    taxation on religion would really be the best and most effective way to hit them.

    The current tax code is the one thing that restricts religions in the US from getting completely involved in politics and backing candidates from the pulpit. You remove that, and the barrier is completely gone.


    out4good3 posted Mon, 15 Jun 2009 14:32:00 GMT(6/15/2009)

    Post 542 of 1249
    Joined 1/13/2002

    That barrier is already gone.

    I've seen many a politician prominantly featured as a guest speaker from many pulpits.

    Religions are already heavily involved in politics. MIght as well tax their asses anyway.

    Olin Moyles Ghost posted Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:11:00 GMT(6/15/2009)

    Post 250 of 662
    Joined 2/2/2008

    Agreed. Politics and religion are partners. I find it amusing that in the USA in the 21st century, you cannot get elected to state or national office unless you profess some sort of religious belief.

    The fact that I don't believe in talking snakes, talking donkeys, and a guy living in a whale for 3 days disqualifies me from holding public office in this country.

    M PrimateDave posted Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:38:00 GMT(6/15/2009)

    Post 1167 of 1642
    Joined 5/22/2006

    The whole idea of "Babylon the Great" representing "false religion" in the book of Revelation is not based on good Biblical Scholarship. See this thread:

    So, there's not really much point in speculating about something that was never even intended by the original writer of the so-called prophecy in question.


    M Billy the Ex-Bethelite posted Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:45:00 GMT(6/15/2009)

    Post 1458 of 7304
    Joined 11/29/2007

    It's not just "politics", it's supposed to be the United Nations that destroy religion... and the kings of the earth mourn.

    Yeah, like the UN can accomplish anything.

    And don't forget the cry of "peace and security" that's supposed to happen immediately before.

    And don't forget the important role that Daniel's "King of the North" is supposed to play... keep your eye on Canada!

    B the X

    M JeffT posted Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:46:00 GMT(6/15/2009)

    Post 3181 of 7123
    Joined 6/4/2001

    Sometimes fulfillment is never how we expect it to happen,

    Nothing has ever happened the way the WTBS said it would

    and turning on religion could be done slowly and subtly.

    Not according to the WTBS

    Jews to this day are still waiting for an actual messiah to overthrow rome :)

    Not according to any person of the Jewish faith I've talked to.

    Most people still profess a religious belief of some sort, or don't care if other people do. The Watchtower fantasy has about government turning on religion involves about 5% of the world's population starting a war with everybody else.

    M besty posted Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:37:00 GMT(6/15/2009)

    Post 1601 of 5436
    Joined 3/3/2005

    The Pentagon spends in 36 hours what the UN spends in a year.

    Don't think the UN will be calling any shots anytime soon.

    More likely is an enhancement of existing human rights legislation preventing harmful mental abuse of minors.

    A new classification of 'high control group' <aka dangerous cult> with specific legislation would allow mainstream religions to continue unaffected.

    For example, taxing HCG's differently to other religions and preventing formal association <baptism> into HCG's for minor children would be a big step.

    An increased focus on Health and Safety legislation could slow down their volunteer recrutiment program <aka preaching>.

    A successful lawsuit proving that the WTS caused wrongful death by coercion and offering misleading medical advice could make whole blood and primary components a conscience matter. (97% done already)

    Just some examples of where 'politics' and the legal system can change the WTS in something more palatable.

    Personally I think religion is an anachronism that is in long decline in any case, with or without acceleration from government. It is fundamentally out of step with the major trends affecting humanity in the 21st Century.

    M yadda yadda 2 posted Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:56:00 GMT(6/15/2009)

    Post 623 of 2938
    Joined 4/22/2008

    I agree that the United Nations and western democratic nations as they presently are will never turn on religion. The JW's really are hopelessly deluded on that. We are decades yet from anything even remotely resembling a global clamp-down on religion. However, it is naive to think that one day it might not happen. I say this because of course it happened in the USSR and is still the case in China. The atheistic USSR controlled a huge bloc of countries for decades and shut the churches down. For a large proportion of this century, nearly 2 billion people were under communist centrally controlled regimes that suppressed religion.

    One day the USA, Britain and the UN will not be the domininant political forces in the day there may be a third world war and countries like China and Russia may emerge victorious and impose a new global order that crushes freedom of religion. In fact, I'd say that scenario will more than likely take place sooner or later and many Christians firmly believe the Bible foretells it. It's just not going to happen in the near future and not through the UN the way the JW's expect it to.

    M TD posted Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:52:00 GMT(6/15/2009)

    Post 1853 of 4823
    Joined 5/14/2001


    Jehovah's Witnesses interpret metaphors in Revelation like, "For in one hour is thy judgmenet come" (18:10) and "For in one hour, so great riches is come to naught" (18:17) to mean that the demise of religion will be very swift and unexpected. They have taught this for many, many years since the early days of Rutherford.

    The world is full of millions of people who will fight to their dying breath to preserve and (In the case of Islam) advance their religion. The world will have to change considerably before an incompetent and powerless entity like the U.N. could crush religion by fiat.

    M Tuesday posted Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:00:00 GMT(6/15/2009)

    Post 1477 of 2287
    Joined 4/4/2003
    You wanna bet on this witness007?

    I don't know if they do, but I will.

    There is no way politics will turn on religion in my lifetime or even the lifetime of my daughter. Religion creates lemmings that don't question what they're told and politics rely on them.

    Whatever you would like to bet I'm up for.

    M BluesBrother posted Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:13:00 GMT(6/15/2009)

    Post 5211 of 8631
    Joined 10/29/2001

    Of course I cannot see it happening either....but to the Witness that is no argument.

    It is forecast to be a great shock, when it comes. It is supposed to be unexpected, That is the clever part of it

    (and don't forget that the King of the North has got to appear and persecute J W's as well, before the end)

    out4good3 posted Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:29:00 GMT(6/15/2009)

    Post 544 of 1249
    Joined 1/13/2002

    Every witness living now will die believing that the UN will turn against religion and theat when the system will turn it's eye towards them, it will be like touching their puppetmster's eyeball.

    What a load of crap!!!!

    They are always accusing the 1975'ers of serving the great puppetmaster for a date when they are unconsciously doing the same thing.

    out4good3 posted Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:31:00 GMT(6/15/2009)

    Post 545 of 1249
    Joined 1/13/2002
    You wanna bet on this witness007?

    I don't know if they do, but I will.

    There is no way politics will turn on religion in my lifetime or even the lifetime of my daughter. Religion creates lemmings that don't question what they're told and politics rely on them.

    Whatever you would like to bet I'm up for.

    I want in on some of this action. This'll be like shooting fish in a barrel.

    M truthsetsonefree posted Mon, 15 Jun 2009 18:41:00 GMT(6/15/2009)

    Post 1536 of 1707
    Joined 7/16/2005

    Separation of church and matter what measure are taken to sanction the business practices of religion to stay in compliance with the law, religion will NOT disappear by political action.


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