The C.T. Russell pyramid

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    Nathan Natas posted Wed, 12 Jun 2002 23:17:00 GMT(6/12/2002)

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    Joined 4/25/2001

    I wrote this thinking that maybe some of our new folks would enjoy it, but I think I may have given the posting a bad or misleading subject line, because it has been little read and not commented on at all.

    Tell me how much the story sucks, and why it sucks as much as it does.

    Si vous plait.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=29872&site=3

    Edited by - Nathan Natas on 12 June 2002 19:17:42

    M qwerty posted Thu, 13 Jun 2002 08:42:00 GMT(6/13/2002)

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    Joined 3/17/2001

    http://www.cuttingedge.org/free19.htm

    Masons

    Russels Grave Site!

    Edited by - qwerty on 13 June 2002 4:47:31

    F teenyuck posted Thu, 13 Jun 2002 14:01:00 GMT(6/13/2002)

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    Joined 9/26/2001

    I am glad you reposted it....I was looking for info on his grave last week.

    This and the pic are helpful.

    How do I e-mail myself the thread? Can we still go that?

    M RR posted Sun, 16 Jun 2002 05:17:00 GMT(6/16/2002)

    Post 995 of 3608
    Joined 12/13/2000

    Here's a little history for you, something you won't find in the history books. Anyoen who has been there, knows that the cemetary is actual made up of several different cemetaries, on the same property, only divided. I don't know how much land is there among all the cemetaries, but it looks to be several hundrd acres.

    Here's the historical part. The cemetary was ALL farm land, owned by Charles Tayes Russell. C.T. Russell's name sake and uncle, and then it was own by Jospeh Russell, C.T.'s father, and left to C.T. when Jospeh died. Some of the land was partitioned for the Watch Tower plot. Across the way from this plot of land NOW sits a huge Masonic temple. What was originally there was the old farm house, where a Br. Bonet lives, he was the caretaker.

    The Cemetary was not owned by the Society, it was owned by a group of Bible Students, including C.T. Russell, Board of directors, etc. I haven't figured out how the Society got a hold of this property and when they sold it.

    The Bible Students are the unofficial caretakers of the bethel plot.

    I remember a few years ago, 1994, the Society opened the pyramid to try and retrieve the belongings they put in there back in 1919, but the thing was emptied. They left the pyramid opened. A Bible Student friend of mine drove up to restored it and seal it. Apparently the Society had no problem with desecrating a cemetary plot!

    spaz posted Tue, 25 Jun 2002 00:03:00 GMT(6/25/2002)

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    Hi RR,

    Do you now what was within the pyramid? Was there a manifest, a list itemizing everything within?

    Regards, Spaz

    M RR posted Tue, 25 Jun 2002 00:08:00 GMT(6/25/2002)

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    Joined 12/13/2000

    According to the Convention report, one everything written by Russell is in there[was in there] including copies of the WT charter and some personal items.

    spaz posted Tue, 25 Jun 2002 00:16:00 GMT(6/25/2002)

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    Joined 5/27/2002

    Hi Again RR,

    I think I should've been a little more specific. Do you know what the "many other things" were? Have you seen a copy of the "society's charter"? And what is a Memorial Tower? Karatol scripture studies rings a bell. Could you remind me what that is?

    Appreciatively, Spaz

    spaz posted Tue, 25 Jun 2002 01:27:00 GMT(6/25/2002)

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    Joined 5/27/2002

    Hi RR,

    I guess you must've been on-line as I posted my first question. Thank you. I confess I don;t fully understand the argument. Some on this site say Russell was a mason; you say he wasn't. If say, a person did everything in the world which suggested to all observers he was a purse-snatcher, what chance do you think he would have of being believed if he denied it?

    For example, and you correct any pertinent errors here, Russell and Conley started Zion's (unincorporated) Watchtower circa 1870-1881. Conley, the methodist banker was president, and parted company with Russell circa 1884 when Russel decided to incorporate.(Zion and zionism are related subjects)

    Zionism, while not yet publicly articluated by Theodor Herzl until 1897, existed within the Jewish Haskalah movement. It had as part of its theology the restoration of a Jewish state (Judenstaat). The European banking dynasties of families such as Bauer, Herch, Cassell Oppenheimer et.al virtually controlled Europe's political destiny. These folk were gradually making inroads to the Americas and Asia during this period. Many American bankers were Bauer's (Rothschild) agents.My understanding is that Conley was one such an agent.Russell and his ideas of a restored Jewish state seemed to be linked to the theology of the very secret societies that the Banker-families headed. Religiously, they identified themselves then as the Illuminated Ones within the guise of ostensibly benevolent and Christian groups such as Freemasonry.

    Russell, by all appearances, adopted much masonic imagery. "Watcher", and "watchtowers" not in any wise reminiscient of middle-eastern construction, but mystical versions of a LightHouse and crashing waves reminscient of Tarot card #7. The Rose & Crown, Knight's Helmut & Weaponry , pyramid theology or dispensationalism is highly suggestive of Knights Templar links. These links are fairly extensive, and this is why I say that Russell was flagging to all onlookers that he was a mason and had secret masonic agenda. How would you reply to this?

    willy_think posted Tue, 25 Jun 2002 01:30:00 GMT(6/25/2002)

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    Joined 3/27/2001

    Who's buried under a cross? A Christian
    Who's buried under a star of David? a Jew.
    Who's buried under a cross and crown? A mason.

    A huge Masonic temple.......i wonder how they got the land?

    F LyinEyes posted Tue, 25 Jun 2002 03:22:00 GMT(6/25/2002)

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    Joined 1/7/2002

    Very interesting subject, please keep it going. This is the very first thing my husband showed me when he started looking things up on the internet. When I found out Russell used measurements from a pyramid, I felt like I had been knocked to the floor. It opened my eyes. I have never heard of that before. A year later, and I have found out so much more . I am grateful for that pyramid, it helped to set the wheels in motion to set me free.

    friday77 posted Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:07:00 GMT(7/21/2010)

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    No disrespect to anyone re: the above--all of this is VERY CREEPY! (BEYOND CREEPY!!!!!!) In fact, each time one of my family members sees a pic of this thing, we yell at him to minimize the photo! What were they thinking back then?!!

    St George of England posted Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:40:00 GMT(7/21/2010)

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    Some time ago I read that in the 1980's the WTS had Russell's pyramid opened and 'undisclosed items' removed. I wonder if that is true and what they were?

    George

    JWoods posted Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:54:00 GMT(7/21/2010)

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    Joined 6/23/2009

    Might as well add this personal experience. I visited the pyramid during the overseers school in Pittsburgh I attended in 1970.

    The instructor was Al Schroeder; he gave everybody who was going to go see it a long lecture on how JWs no longer believed in the pyramid and had rejected the cross. He mentioned nothing about the Masonic rites.

    He also suggested that it might be best not to spread around gossip about the pyramid to the ordinary brothers & sisters. We as servants were presumed to understand that things had changed and that this was slightly embarrassing to the society now.

    friday77 posted Wed, 21 Jul 2010 17:18:00 GMT(7/21/2010)

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    Still no disrespect, but this is an artifact that is still CREEPY!! (It looks like it would be used in a horror flick--still no offense!)

    JWoods posted Wed, 21 Jul 2010 17:24:00 GMT(7/21/2010)

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    Joined 6/23/2009
    Still no disrespect, but this is an artifact that is still CREEPY!! (It looks like it would be used in a horror flick--still no offense!)

    It is extremely creepy in real life - partly because it has not been maintained or manicured (at least when I saw it).

    Nathan Natas posted Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:58:00 GMT(7/21/2010)

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    Joined 4/25/2001

    CREEPY? That's a bit of a stretch, isn't it? I thought Boris Karloff's monster in Frankenstein was creepy, but I was like ten years old when I saw it.

    A pyramid is a pyramid, there's nothing especially creepy about it.

    And for the umpteenth time (ump teenth ), C. T. Russell was NOT A MASON! The Masonic Temple near his grave was built years after CTR died. Proximity does not imply association!

    "There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so."

    - Hamlet, scene ii

    JWoods posted Wed, 21 Jul 2010 20:00:00 GMT(7/21/2010)

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    Joined 6/23/2009

    Nathan, you had to have been there. There were veiled warnings that the thing might actually cause demonic attack if you stayed around it too long, or thought about it too much.

    I kid you not.

    Edit to say I never believed Russell was a Mason, either - just for the record. Of course, he did have quite a thing for pyramids...

    freydo posted Wed, 21 Jul 2010 20:13:00 GMT(7/21/2010)

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    Joined 10/16/2009

    Is this part of a novel?

    " We are told in the "Souvenir Report of the Bible Students Convention, Pittsburgh, PA.(1919)," that the pyramid was "accepted by Brother Russell as the most fitting emblem for an enduring monument on the Societys burial space."

    Who is 'we' and by whom are we told? And is there any way to verify anything in the statement?

    Perhaps a scan of the souvenir report could be posted. Sounds like the wt mag these days when they report that

    some publisher had a momentous thing happen - but no names, dates or places.

    Nathan Natas posted Wed, 21 Jul 2010 22:34:00 GMT(7/21/2010)

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    Joined 4/25/2001

    Freydo, seeking clarity, asked,

    " We are told in the "Souvenir Report of the Bible Students Convention, Pittsburgh, PA.(1919)," that the pyramid was "accepted by Brother Russell as the most fitting emblem for an enduring monument on the Societys burial space."

    Who is 'we' and by whom are we told? And is there any way to verify anything in the statement?

    "We" are the readers of the page, and we are told by the "Souvenir Report of the Bible Students Convention, Pittsburgh, PA.(1919)".

    One popular way of verifying information is to LOOK IT UP.

    Thank you for your novel question.

    friday77 posted Thu, 22 Jul 2010 13:19:00 GMT(7/22/2010)

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    Joined 4/26/2009

    Still CREEPY-CREEPERTON!!! As I stated in other post boards re: this subject, this is freaks folks out! Again, my person-of-interest cousin thinks that this artifact should be used in a scary movie--this object is certainly NOT CHRISTIAN!!

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