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Notes from 2013 Memorial talk: Appreciate What Christ Has Done for You

    WinstonSmith posted Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:08:21 GMT(3/26/2013)

    Post 287 of 451
    Joined 4/20/2012

    Took one for the team tonight, and went along to the Memorial. My first time in a Kingdom Hall for just over a month. It was as expected, dry, boring and extremely uninteresting. However I took some notes during the talk so that if some who visit this board missed the Memorial, they might be able to read through and get an idea what was said in the event that someone asks them about it.

    The notes below were written as they speaker said them. I am reporting, not supporting;

    Memorial 2013 Talk: Appreciate What Christ Has Done for You

    - We come here tonight to remember a superlative example of love.
    - This can be hard for us to comprehend as not many of us would have had someone give their life in our behalf.
    - We gather and celebrate as the result of a scriptural command. Luke 22:19, 20.
    - So we are grateful that we can be here and observe this simple ceremony. We know Jehovah will be pleased.
    - Wherever Jehovah's people are, they will be gathering tonight. Kingdom Halls, rented facilities, open fields, even prisons. Millions in more than 200 lands will meet and observe.
    - Many will go through hardship in order to come here. You might have had family opposition, but you came here anyway. We are not unlike those in other lands who meet under trial. Last year 19,300,000 met in this way.
    - Let's now answer four questions.

    - Why do humans need to be delivered from death?
    > Adam lost the privelige of everlasting life and as a result, all of us have a death sentence. Romans 5:12. It was passed onto us genetically.
    > What about those who, unlike Adam, wanted to be obedient to God? Jehovah set up an arrangement where his son Jesus could give his perfect life to make up for the perfect life Adam lost. Romans 5:19.
    > Jesus showed great courage and it would have pained Jehovah very much to go through this. Because Jesus was perfect, he had to die. His perfect life had to be given in order to cover the perfect life that Adam gave up. It makes us feel emotional when we think about what he did for us.
    > When a loved one gives us a gift, it is something intangible. Jesus gift for us was invisible so sometimes it can be easy to forget. Our conscience though reminds us, when we do wrong, of the value of that sacrifice.

    - Who benefit from this sacrifice?
    > The bible describes two hopes. A limited number will have life in heaven, the others will live on a cleansed earth as God intended for Adam and Eve. We can choose to serve Jehovah, but we can't choose our destination.
    > Revelation 14:1. These ones are in heaven, and as they have God's name on their forehead, they are Jehovah's witnesses. These are the ones who partake of the bread and the wine, as they are the ones who have been chosen to serve in the heavenly kingdom.
    > Isaiah 11:6-9. If we long to see these things, then this shows we have a hope for an earthly life ahead. Isaiah 35:5, 6. If we are sick and long to see the fulfilment of this, it shows that we have the earthly hope. Isaiah 65:21-23. If we long to have fulfilling work, then we are showing that we want to live on this earth.
    > Jesus will fix all of our problems, whatever they may be, in the near future.

    - Who partake in the bread and wine?
    > Both groups benefit from the ransom sacrifice, but only the ones with the heavenly hope partake. This is because Jesus set this covenant with his close followers, ones who would be in the kingdom with him. For this reason we would expect that someone who partakes has a long history of faithful service to Jehovah.
    - 1 Corinthians 11: 23-25 gives us the process of what happened that night. Let's review it and then follow the same pattern.
    - Prayer and bread.
    - Prayer and wine.
    - That was the simple ceremony that Jesus instituted. We should be proud that we carry on what Jesus set up.

    - What must we do to show appreciation for this sacrifice?
    > Jehovah and Jesus want us to have a relationship with them. To do so, we must live by the rules of his house. He helps us with this and gives us practical advice. Pour out your heart to him in prayer. Jehovah longs to hear it. He can handle whatever you say to him. We must keep up our education about Jehovah and grow in appreciation of him and what he has done for us.
    > If we follow him and his guidelines, we can make Jehovah happy. We know as Jehovah's Witnesses we do our utmost everyday to please him.

    - 1 John 4:9. Continue to grow in appreciation for what Jehovah has done for us.

    Sulla posted Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:16:34 GMT(3/26/2013)

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    Joined 6/2/2011

    This is not recognizably Christian.

    punkofnice posted Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:31:02 GMT(3/26/2013)

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    Joined 1/6/2011

    Clinical. Austere. Controlling. Replete with logical fallacies.

    What a vile meeting.

    unstopableravens posted Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:34:20 GMT(3/26/2013)

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    Joined 12/12/2010

    did they say "two hopes"? eph 4:4 ugh

    Bangalore posted Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:44:44 GMT(3/26/2013)

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    Joined 3/9/2009

    Thanks Winston.

    Bangalore

    WinstonSmith posted Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:51:03 GMT(3/26/2013)

    Post 288 of 451
    Joined 4/20/2012

    This is the second Memorialâ„¢ that I have been to since waking up. I paid extra attention to how they explained the two hopes. I tried to hear it like a person visiting for the first time would hear it. As you can see above, they used Revelation to show a number in heaven (they didn't read the scripture about the great crowd also being in heaven). Then to show the earthly hope, instead of reading a scripture that clearly states that everyone else lives on earth (because let's be honest there ain't one) they read the usual scriptures in Isaiah of a nice sounding earth and said the fact that you desire these things is proof that you have an earthly hope.

    Their reasoning is not dissimilar to balsa wood.

    prologos posted Tue, 26 Mar 2013 11:53:22 GMT(3/26/2013)

    Post 616 of 3663
    Joined 11/6/2012

    again they are unclear about "the covenant" mentioned and they are wrong still and again , because:

    The NEW COVENANT (the cup and bread) are for FORGIVENESS of sin (if any) and for ALL sinners, the many, the world.-- but

    The KINGDOM COVENANT that is NOT PART of the MEMORIAL, that was LATER proposed, is for the few

    When Jesus passed the Bread and Wine first, the disciples were NOT IN THE KINGDOM COVENANT yet.

    ALL worthy should PARTAKE, let God decide who will go to heaven (if any).

    The count is not sound.

    think.

    Kristina1972 posted Tue, 26 Mar 2013 12:48:08 GMT(3/26/2013)

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    Joined 1/30/2010

    If you read it carefully it isn't even logical. According to this, only the one's with the "heavenly hope" are Jehovah's witnesses. As usual they are confused.

    designs posted Tue, 26 Mar 2013 12:53:35 GMT(3/26/2013)

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    Kristina- that was the not so subtle point of Rutherford's 1935 RICHES bk.

    label licker posted Tue, 26 Mar 2013 13:08:47 GMT(3/26/2013)

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    Joined 1/15/2013

    Christs whole ministry was three and a half years, so does that mean a life long faithful history? No! How long did the apostles know Jesus? That only those that have served for ions can partake?????????????No! That letter that Paul wrote was to the WHOLE congregation of corinthians and some of those people were obviously not in good standing. Read that whole chapter and the one before. They were still learning and not fully equipped. And only Jehovah's witnesses will make it? I won't even go there

    Emery posted Tue, 26 Mar 2013 13:18:27 GMT(3/26/2013)

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    Joined 6/21/2012

    Thanks Winston

    Ancientofdays posted Tue, 26 Mar 2013 14:06:16 GMT(3/26/2013)

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    Joined 3/21/2006

    My last memoral was many uears ago and looking at the Winston's note nothing has changed.

    It's all about Jesus sacrifice and deadth.

    It's all about stimulate sense of guilt in the audience.

    Not a mention of resurrection at all.

    Deputy Dog posted Tue, 26 Mar 2013 14:20:01 GMT(3/26/2013)

    Post 4937 of 4904
    Joined 4/19/2003

    unstop

    did they say "two hopes"? eph 4:4 ugh

    I've got to remember that one

    Theocratic Sedition posted Tue, 26 Mar 2013 14:29:04 GMT(3/26/2013)

    Post 1181 of 1271
    Joined 8/13/2012
    Both groups benefit from the ransom sacrifice, but only the ones with the heavenly hope partake. This is because Jesus set this covenant with his close followers, ones who would be in the kingdom with him.

    I'm dying to go tonight to hear this part for myself. Not that I don't believe you, but just I need to hear it myself. It's true Jesus set the covenant in a setting with his close followers, and heck maybe it only applied to those with him in the room that evening. Regardless, how is it that a handful of American men with one Aussie born 2000 years after Jesus set this covenant are considered his preeminent close followers, along with the average eccentric that partakes in whatever congregation? How do you throw so many Christians under the bus?

    For this reason we would expect that someone who partakes has a long history of faithful service to Jehovah.

    If that's the case, then one would expect that someone who partakes would actually be one of the other sheep considering the average non-annointed JW has contributed more to the JW cause than the average so called annointed.

    WTWizard posted Tue, 26 Mar 2013 15:05:04 GMT(3/26/2013)

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    Joined 5/10/2007

    Sounds like a nice waste of time, gas, and money to attend. Why do we need to be "saved" from death through Jesus? Why not just have joke-hova not make rules that bind mankind to being slaves to that thing? You try to bind mankind, Satan (who actually cares for us a lot more than joke-hova or Jesus) tries to set us free, what do you expect? And who was it that placed Satan in charge of mankind in the first place? Being that Satan cared more for us than He did for joke-hova, naturally He would do something about it.

    Hence, this whole exercise is totally unnecessary. It is about joke-hova wanting us enslaved, unable to function fully. Satan wanted us to be all we could be, and was willing to actually do something about it. That pxxxed off joke-hova to the point where that thing threw a fit, condemned mankind to damnation, and then had to offer Jesus to bring us back to a state of slavery. Is that what you wish to commemorate? If so, by all means attend this waste of time.

    Room 215 posted Tue, 26 Mar 2013 15:28:15 GMT(3/26/2013)

    Post 2900 of 2914
    Joined 4/16/2001

    Basically, it's nothing more than their annual "Don't Dare Partake" fest, where the dubbies all get dolled up in their faux-Easter outfits to pass the plates -- and gawk at anyone who does.

    At last year's local memorial service, purported to honor Jesus' sacrificial death and its signficance to the eternal prospects of humanity, the visiting speaker from Bethel quite managed to talk for almost an hour without one recourse to the word "resurrection".. a remarkable achievement, given its centrality in the belief system of nominal Christianity.

    Nor were the stirring moments of high drama in the Bible's depicting of Jesus last hours on earth-- his last supper and his prayer for the well-being of his disciples, the betrayal of Judas, the agony of the garden; his disciples' succumbing to sleep; his betrayal and arrest in the Garden of Gethesemane; the scattering of his fear-gripped disciples; Peter's denial, and the climactic soul-stirring awareness of the signficance of the empty tomb and its guardian's chilling pronouncement to Mary Magdalene and the women "why are you searching for the living among the dead?"... and so on, to his post-resurrection appearance at Emmaus, etc.

    All of this was swept aside in favor of convincing those in attendance that they had no business in partaking of the emblematic bread and wine.

    M undercover posted Tue, 26 Mar 2013 16:45:21 GMT(3/26/2013)

    Post 13814 of 13132
    Joined 9/25/2002

    Both groups benefit from the ransom sacrifice, but only the ones with the heavenly hope partake. This is because Jesus set this covenant with his close followers, ones who would be in the kingdom with him.

    The close followers formerly known as the Faithful and Discreet Slave, but who have since been demoted by the Governing Body. Give em a couple years and no one but the GB will be allowed to partake...

    Wholly posted Tue, 26 Mar 2013 17:30:24 GMT(3/26/2013)

    Post 36 of 74
    Joined 3/5/2013

    My Lord, my God, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords endured, with love for every one of us, false accusation, abuse, torture, humiliation, and excrutiating pain unto death by the "Governing Body" of the Jews so that every people and tongue could choose to believe in him and be saved by him to be with him, love & be loved by him for all eternity if we would only believe in his status as the Alpha and the Omega, The Redemer, The one and only Lord Almighty God.

    That is one reason I appreciate all that Christ did for us.

    I didn't see that covered in the J ritual.

    suavojr posted Tue, 26 Mar 2013 18:26:19 GMT(3/26/2013)

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    Joined 11/14/2012

    WinstonSmith posted Tue, 26 Mar 2013 21:07:39 GMT(3/26/2013)

    Post 289 of 451
    Joined 4/20/2012

    Good morning everyone, I'm guessing that by now you would have had your Memorial, or at least it won't be far away. Would love to hear the details of the talks you had to sit through.

    Kristina1972 picked up up on a point that really struck me as a cunning use of words. When speaking of those in heaven the speaker said that because they bore God's name they were Jehovah's witnesses. This is where they get tricky. Note that I typed 'witnesses' with a small 'w' this is because this is what the speaker meant, as in they are witnesses of Jehovah (ones who can testify about him and his character). However, anyone new or along for the first time would have most likely heard the brother say "as they have God's name on their forehead, they are Jehovah's Witnesses" note the capital W. So while what they said was correct (from their point of view), the uninitiated would most likely hear a not so subtle reminder that when the drinks and nibbles come around, it would be expected that only a Jehovah's Witness would partake, not some lackey off the street. This was further emphasised later when they clearly said that they would expect that only someone with a long history of service to Jehovah would partake.

    @Theocratic Sedition: I think they were going for the ol' "Jesus was in the room with and only speaking to his faithful apostles, so the words only apply to them, and by the way, we are the modern day version of the faithful apostles, so this applies to the anointed and not the general populace" schtick. As usual they add meaning and put words in the mouths of bible writers and characters where the text indicates no such thing.

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