Did we ever fulfill Mathew 24:14?

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    MsD posted Wed, 23 Jan 2013 21:48:41 GMT(1/23/2013)

    Post 42 of 77
    Joined 12/29/2012

    It definitely hasn't happened....

    cedars points that out pretty clearly with the map and statistics above

    Amelia Ashton posted Wed, 23 Jan 2013 21:59:26 GMT(1/23/2013)

    Post 1244 of 1913
    Joined 11/2/2010

    (Matthew 24:14) 14 And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

    *** w11 3/1 p. 8 Who Are Preaching the Good News? ***

    Jehovah’s Witnesses are not trying to convert the world by their preaching. Rather, when that work is done to Jehovah’s satisfaction, the end will come, as Jesus foretold.

    They would never be so presumptious as to contradict the Bible, would they?

    Finkelstein posted Wed, 23 Jan 2013 22:05:36 GMT(1/23/2013)

    Post 2267 of 5140
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    The Watchtower Corporation never taught the True Gospel of the bible anyways, they taught/preached their adulterated commercialized

    version of the gospel.

    Hence the WTS. never fulfilled the slightest of Mat. 24:14

    The inherent corruption of this organization was set and anchored from the very beginning and it proliferated itself from that foundation.

    Postured up on false doctrines and false proclamations, the WTS is now apologizing upon its past.

    Time will only tell if all its misdeeds will make this religion crumble over on itself.

    If it does, consider it done so be God and " The Truth " written in the bible.

    Amelia Ashton posted Wed, 23 Jan 2013 22:14:00 GMT(1/23/2013)

    Post 1245 of 1913
    Joined 11/2/2010

    If they are not trying to convert the world then what is the point of a Bible Study and why go over the same terrritory again and again year in year out whilst missing out other areas completely?

    Don't bother answering. I know...................it's a cult.

    Pterist posted Wed, 23 Jan 2013 22:16:39 GMT(1/23/2013)

    Post 722 of 1428
    Joined 10/17/2012

    Ray Franz **** I get the impression (correct me if I'm wrong) that somehow the seperation will be a significant event and obvious to all who REALLY is a wheat .Will that be accompanied by a final part of the witnessing of the good news ? (Your thoughts please ...)*****

    First of all, as Christians we respond to the original, never changing, eternal good news as specified in the NT and confirmed by Paul Galatians 1:6-9. Romans 1: 16-17, the POWER of GOD unto salvation. This new life is signified in Christian baptism, we die with and in Christ and are raised in his powerful resurrection to a life of sanctification leading to immortality in a resurrection. This was and is the eternal plan of God. Ephesians 1:5-14

    Many intrepations of the end times gathering and the presence/coming of Jesus are out there. They all seem to be CENTERED around the understanding of the various types of millenniums. Post, Pre and Amilliniumism not to mention sub cathorogies of dispensationalism, as you are probably well aware. All of these intrepations should NOT be an article of faith! that ones salvation is conditional on getting it right, achedemicly.

    The intrepation that seems more correct to me, but not without some good arguments from those who oppose, is a Amillennium / Partial Preterism view point.

    The 144k symbolic number represents the fulfillment to literal Israel to be the Spiritual Israel of God that would bring blessings to the Gentiles. It is my understanding that the first century Christians became that Spiritual Israel in the heavens when literal Israel was destroyed in 70AD. Rev. 7 and 14 shows their elevated position. All the signs that Jesus mentioned as to his presence was fulfilled as Jerusalem was destroyed within that ONE generation.

    The everlasting same good news rev 14 continued to be preached to all tribes, nations and tongues since then, which fulfills Paul's mention in Romans, 11,12 that ALL Israel would be saved, not just the kings and priestly (144k, early Christians) but a great crowd of unnumbered, becomes the holy NATION, as they look spiritually to the Jerusalem above as their home, in a New Heavens and New Earth.

    The FINAL coming of Jesus comes as a THEIF in the night, NO signs, this is the coming in judgement on the whole world, (Israel was already been judged in 70AD)...this will be when the second resurrection occurs and Satan is let loose for the last time, just prior to that. Rev 20:7-15.

    I believe we are Living in the period of rev. 20:1-6 since Christs resurrection, Penticost, and the resurrected FIRST BORN elite in 70 AD.

    Shalom

    leaving_quietly posted Thu, 24 Jan 2013 00:24:08 GMT(1/24/2013)

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    Joined 3/12/2012

    Of course, JWs claim that they have already fulfilled this prophecy.

    *** w95 9/1 pp. 17-18 par. 17 Christian Witnesses for Divine Sovereignty ***
    Still, that first-century preaching work was merely a foretaste of what would be accomplished during the last days. Looking forward especially to our time, Jesus said: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14; Mark 13:10) Has this prophecy been fulfilled? Indeed, it has.

    Larsinger58 posted Thu, 24 Jan 2013 04:18:24 GMT(1/24/2013)

    Post 1881 of 1174
    Joined 10/11/2009

    Actually, they did!

    The WTS went from a small congregation of a few members in the mid 1800's to an itnernational organization by 1947.

    Problem is, when most read "the end" in Matthew, they associate that with Armageddon. But actually, the "end" for the context of the Jews Jesus was speaking with was the "end of the appointed times of the nations" or what we more oft call the "end of the gentile times." So the prophecy relates to the preaching of the good news around the world just before the end of the gentile times would occur, which occurred on November 30, 1947!

    Turns out, that very year, NH Knorr, the president of the WTS at the time, LITERALLY went on a round-the-globe speaking tour! Thus this prophecy is specifically fulfilled by NH Knorr's worldwide lecture early in 1947, which saw the "end" come later that year in November. Again, not Armageddon, but the "end of the gentile times", when the Jews officially came out of exile due to the UN Partition Agreement, enabling them to set up the new State of Israel later in the Spring of 1948.

    "Kingdom Proclamation Surges Ahead

    With a view to worldwide expansion, on February 6, 1947, the Society’s president and his secretary, Milton G. Henschel, embarked on a 47,795-mile [76,916 km] world service tour. The trip took them to islands of the Pacific, New Zealand, Australia, Southeast Asia, India, the Middle East, the Mediterranean area, Central and Western Europe, Scandinavia, England, and Newfoundland. It was the first time since 1933 that representatives of the Society’s headquarters staff in Brooklyn had been able to visit their brothers in Germany. Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world followed the two travelers as reports of the trip were published in issues of The Watchtower throughout 1947." (Proclaimers, p. 98)

    So not only was this prophecy fulfilled because the "good news" had been preached worldwide throughout Christendom, but also specifically by that around-the-world lecture tour earlier that year!

    Noiw, just in passing, the WTS is completely in the dark about this. They are also in denial. They read Matthew 24:29 where it clearly says, "Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days..." and have to interpret that to mean near the very end rather than "after"! That's because they think the "end" mentioned in Matthew is a reference to Armageddon. But it is not. The "end" is the end of the gentile times, and the great tribulation is a reference to the HOLOCAUST!

    So when Mattew 24:14 prophesied the "good news" would be preached worldwide just before the "end" occurs, it has a double application; one being the message of JWs reaching around the globe throughout Christianity, and more specifically, to NH Knorr's worldwide lecture earlier in the year of 1947, the year that saw the "end" of the gentile times on November 30th.

    So it WAS fulfilled!

    Now as a point of detail as far as what countries in the world that were not reached by 1947, note the context in the Bible of this work is pertinently throughout Christendom. For instance, Christendom is referenced in the Bible as the "sea" whereforth comes the 666-beast, which means trinity-believing Christendom. The "earth" is associated with those things relating to God's temple or his organization, thus the lamb-dragon beast that becomes the "false prophet" seen coming out of the earth is a reference to the WTS' GB. That beast does not bear the "666" because it does not believe the trinity. We compare that to the parable of the "dragnet" where the dragnet is cast into the sea, meaning Christendom and fish, both good and bad, are brought up onto the sand, then separated. The "sand" is a reference to the WTS. So the strict fulfillment isn't in relation to the entire world, including countries that are not Christian, as much as it is to the world of Christianity.

    Vanderhoven7 posted Thu, 24 Jan 2013 04:49:14 GMT(1/24/2013)

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    The idea that the WTS has anything to with this verse is completely erroneous. First of all they are not preaching this good news; they are preaching a false gospel in terms of content, nature of salvation, and means of salvation...and all under false authority.

    But more than that, this verse was completely unrelated to the 20th or 21st century.

    MT.24:14. AND THIS GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM SHALL BE
    PREACHED IN ALL THE WORLD FOR A WITNESS UNTO
    ALL NATIONS; AND THEN SHALL THE END COME.

    The scriptures clearly teach that prior to 70AD the gospel was spread throughout the world. Acts 2:5 Ro.1:8 Col 1:6, 23. This worldwide spreading of the gospel preceded the end of the Jewish economy (city, temple, desolated) and witnessed to it. i.e. that this was the result of their rejection of Christ.

    The following is an excerpt from The Watchtower of May 1, 1999 (p. 11,12) which contains some elements of sound interpretation.

    In the years leading up to 66 C.E., Christians would have seen many of the preliminary elements of the composite sign being fulfilled-wars, famines, even an extensive preaching of the good news of the Kingdom. (Acts 11:28; Colossians 1:23) When, though, would the end come? What did Jesus mean when he said: 'This generation [Greek, ge.ne.a'] will not pass away'? Jesus had often called the contemporaneous mass of opposing Jews, including religious leaders, 'a wicked, adulterous generation.' (Matthew 11:16; 12:39, 45; 16:4; 17:17; 23:36) So when, on the Mount of Olives, he again spoke of "this generation," he evidently did not mean the entire race of Jews throughout history; nor did he mean his followers, even though they were "a chosen race." (1 Peter 2:9) Neither was Jesus saying that "this generation" is a period of time.

    Rather, Jesus had in mind the opposing Jews back then who would experience the fulfillment of the sign he gave. Regarding the reference to "this generation" at Luke 21:32, Professor Joel B. Green notes: "In the Third Gospel, 'this generation' (and related phrases) has regularly signified a category of people who are resistant to the purpose of God. . . . [It refers] to people who stubbornly turn their backs on the divine purpose."

    The wicked generation of Jewish opposers who could observe the sign being fulfilled would also experience the end. (Matthew 24:6, 13, 14) And that they did! In 70 C.E., the Roman army returned, led by Titus, son of Emperor Vespasian. The suffering of the Jews who were again bottled up in the city is almost beyond belief." Eyewitness Flavius Josephus reports that by the time the Romans demolished the city, about 1,100,000 Jews had died and some 100,000 were taken captive, most of those soon to perish horribly from starvation or in Roman theaters. Truly, the tribulation of 66-70 C.E. was the greatest that Jerusalem and the Jewish system had ever experienced or would ever experience. How different the outcome was for Christians who had heeded Jesus' prophetic warning and had left Jerusalem after the departure of the Roman armies in 66 C.E.!

    Later in the article they try to pass this off as an incomplete fulfillment without exegetical grounds for doing so.

    Larsinger58 posted Thu, 24 Jan 2013 05:16:52 GMT(1/24/2013)

    Post 1883 of 1174
    Joined 10/11/2009

    Here's some perspective to focus on. Matthew 24:21 speaks of the great tribulation as ..."for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world's beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short."

    Now, this is where CHRONOLOGY comes in. This great tribulation is linked to the end of the 62 weeks! That is, the 490-year period of 70 weeks is split up into 1 weeks (7 years), 62 weeks (434 years), and 7 weeks (49 years). The "cut off" that will begin the "great tribulation" occurs at the end of 62 weeks, thus 434 years into a 490-year period. The last 49 years of this period is a grand jubilee where the Jews will be restored to their homeland. Thus the period of this "great tribulation" which would almost see the end of the holy ones unless the days were cut short, is the specific period of 7 years.

    Now how is this fulfilled? Easy. We know that 490 years ends in 36 CE. That is the end of the 70 weeks of the first coming. We then calculate down to our time.

    490 years x 4 = 1960

    1960 + 36 = 1996.

    So the 490-year period for the second coming would end in 1996 and thus begin in 1506. We can now, though, calculate the 7-year period when the "great tribulation" would take place, noting, of course, Zech 13:8, which says...

    ZECH 13:8 “And it must occur in all the land,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “[that] two parts in it are what will be cut off [and] expire; and as for the third [part], it will be left remaining in it. 9 And I shall certainly bring the third [part] through the fire; and I shall actually refine them as in the refining of silver, and examine them as in the examining of gold. It, for its part, will call upon my name, and I, for my part, will answer it. I will say, ‘It is my people,’ and it, in its turn, will say, ‘Jehovah is my God.’”

    Thus, after the great tribulation, which would see the extermination of 2/3rds of the Jews, the Jews would see restoration to their homeland, which would enjoy the jubilee of the the 7 weeks of 49 years. These are unique events, but also timed events.

    So was this fulfilled? YES. Only as Matthew 24 points out, the days were cut short or else no felsh would be saved, that is, the "flesh" of the chosen ones, which is a reference to the Jews. 62 weeks is 434 years, so that means this 7-year period which would see the extermination of 2/3rds of the Jews would happen between 1940-1947. Did it?

    YES! Two-thirds of the Jews, that is, six million out of nine million died in the Holocaust. But note, sow WWII is the "great tribulation" Matthew is speaking of. But note, the Hitler extermination process had already exterminated 6 million Jews by the end of 1944! Had he continued, we could expect he would have killed many more Jews since that was his goal. So the "days were cut short", that is, the war ended before 1947. Even so, on November 30, 1947, the exile of the Jews ended and they were restored to their homeland, just as prophesied!

    Now I bring this up because of the (1) uniqueness of these events, this great tribulation and the restoration to Israel, and (2) the specific dating from the chronology in the Bible for when this is supposed to happen.

    So as far as what happeneds in 70 CE, we know that has no connection to this "great tribulation" since we don't see the Jews restored to their homeland after any 7-year period, plus there is no relevance for the 62 weeks in relation to 36 CE. The UNIQUE event that never happened before nor would happen again is a reference to the horror of the HOLOCAUST which was aimed at Jews and JWs who are the "chosen ones." So when we include all the details that are to happen, including the chronology, then this can only happen between 1940-1947 with the 49-year jubilee beginning in 1947, which it does.

    The Bible speaks of the "temple in its right condition" after 2300 evenings and mornings, which points to a specific sect that would appear during the end times to serve as God's temple. The video below discusses this and points to JWs as being that temple sect. Of note, of course, the Nazis targeted the JWs as well as the Jews, so the "chosen ones" is fulfilled by both. The "digusting thing in a holy place" is thus Nazism.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnTy8_EhE0Y

    Vanderhoven7 posted Thu, 24 Jan 2013 05:51:01 GMT(1/24/2013)

    Post 968 of 1704
    Joined 9/4/2010

    Hi Lars,

    You wrote:

    <<Here's some perspective to focus on. Matthew 24:21 speaks of the great tribulation as ..."for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world's beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short. Now, this is where CHRONOLOGY comes in. >>

    The "great tribulation" was fulfilled in the first century, culminating with the destruction of Jerusalem.

    It's absolutely clear from:

    Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
    Mat 24:16 Then let them which be inJudaea(local) flee into the mountains:
    Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
    Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
    Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
    Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
    Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
    (highlighted to show there will be no second fulfillment)

    confirmation:

    Luk 21:20 And when ye shall seeJerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation (end) thereof is nigh.
    Luk 21:21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
    Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. (note: This refers back to Matthew 23 prediction of woe and divine vengeance on Christ's own generation)
    Luk 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress(tribulation) in the land, and wrath upon this people.
    Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

    WHEN WAS THE FOLLOWING TO HAPPEN? (First century or 21 st century)

    ..........a. "not one of these stones" being left on another?

    ..........b. running to the hill-country beyond Judea to escape the tribulation of those days? (Where might Christians living in Boston flee to? Should Bostonians be praying that their flight not be in winter and take extra jackets with them when they work on their roofs?)

    ..........c. "Jews, who aren't slain by the sword being scattered into all nations?

    Obviously this is first century unrepeatable stuff. Jews are still in all nations today; It's not going to happen again.

    WTWizard posted Thu, 24 Jan 2013 06:38:41 GMT(1/24/2013)

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    Joined 5/10/2007

    I can only hope other countries soon join the less than 0.05, then 0.01% categories. Hopefully this list will grow quite long. I am hoping for Japan (their former showcase), South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Chile, Argentina, all Scandinavian countries, Germany, and France to join the list. I doubt the United Tyranny of Stupidity would join--there is so much outright stupidity in this country that too many witlesses remain witlesses for life.

    But for countries like Mexico and Brazil, having boasted great growth in recent years, a slip back to less than 0.05% would serve the witlesses right. Italy would also give the witlesses a slap in the face if they dropped below 0.05%. Remember those as countries where the cancer has been growing rapidly in recent years?

    Larsinger58 posted Thu, 24 Jan 2013 06:39:45 GMT(1/24/2013)

    Post 1887 of 1174
    Joined 10/11/2009

    Vanderhoven: How wonderful for you to break this down and explain this interpretation.

    But, Luke places the events at Jerusalem prior to those events that would be part of the parousia of Christ. Luke does not mention Daniel at all in connection with Jerusalem. So please note the specifics:

    LUKE 21:

    10 Then he went on to say to them: “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; 11 and there will be great earthquakes, and in one place after another pestilences and food shortages; and there will be fearful sights and from heaven great signs.

    12 “But before all these things people will lay their hands upon YOU and persecute YOU, delivering YOU up to the synagogues and prisons, YOU being haled before kings and governors for the sake of my name. 13 It will turn out to YOU for a witness. 14 Therefore settle it in YOUR hearts not to rehearse beforehand how to make YOUR defense, 15 for I will give YOU a mouth and wisdom, which all YOUR opposers together will not be able to resist or dispute. 16 Moreover, YOU will be delivered up even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and they will put some of YOU to death; 17 and YOU will be objects of hatred by all people because of my name. 18 And yet not a hair of YOUR heads will by any means perish. 19 By endurance on YOUR part YOU will acquire YOUR souls.

    20 “Furthermore, when YOU see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. 21 Then let those in Ju·de´a begin fleeing to the mountains, and let those in the midst of her withdraw, and let those in the country places not enter into her; 22 because these are days for meting out justice, that all the things written may be fulfilled. 23 Woe to the pregnant women and the ones suckling a baby in those days! For there will be great necessity upon the land and wrath on this people; 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled."

    Okay. Note verse 10 where it is clear Luke is talking about the same events as in Matthew and Mark that are connected to the events associated with the return of Christ. But when Luke talks about Jerusalem, he introduces that event as coming BEFORE all these things! That's because the events leading up to the 2nd coming, including the unive "great tribulation" mentioned by Daniel -- and Luke says nothing about fulfilling Daniel here--occurs specifically in modern times, with the 2nd coming itself occurring 2520 years after the fall of Jerusalem. Whether you are convinced that is 607 BCE, 587 BCE or 529 BCE, all dates occur in the 20th Century (i.e. 1914, 1934 or 1992!) If you accept this, then it might seem that Luke is making a contradiction, but he is not as we see in verse 12, he introduces events that will be "before" the physical fall of Jerusalem.

    But even though the Holocaust fulfills Daniel's 'great tribulation" between 1940-1947, there are THREE PARALELS in scripture regarding this, which have chronological significance.

    1) The PASSION OF CHRIST, that is, from the time of his arrest until his death and resurrection, reflects on what happened at Jerusalem and as well what happens during the HOLOCAUST. That is, Jesus being surrounded in the garden represents Jerusalem being surrounded by encamped aries. But here we apply the chronology. Jesus was arrested on Saturday morning, Nisan 15th and died the following Thursday, Nisan 20th, after which he was in the grave for 3 nights, rising on early Sunday morning before 3 a.m. You can apply these 8 days to the time of the HOLOCAUST.

    2) We learn the fulfillment of the "disgusting thing in a holy place" is an army that surrounds the holy city. Thus there is a parallel chronology in regards to 70 CE and the fall of Jerusalem.

    3) But the period of 8 days of Christ's passion predicts the 8 days involved from the time the Nazi army surrounds Warsaw, which by far had the highest concentration of Jews, thus representing Jerusalem, in late 1939 until the resurrection which represents the restoration of the Jews to their homeland.

    So, indeed, what happens to Jerusalem in 70 CE prophesies what will happen in modern times. So of note, late in 1939, Hitler literally surrounded Warsaw, Poland, which represents antitypical Jerusalem, with canons and bombarded that city until it fell. Then there was a short time when you could flee out of the city to the mountains before the Nazis bricked in the Jewish ghetto there in Warsaw and other places, after which they were liquidated.

    Historicaly, of course, the HOLOCAUST is considered to be a unique event. Further, Zech 13:8 notes that after two-thirds of the Jews were exterminated, the remaining third would be restored to their homeland following this "great tribulation." That did not happen in 70 CE. Further, luke confirms the "appointed times of the nations" would continue until its appointed times end. The setting was the Jews going into exile. So when they are seen returning and controlling their own homeland again, that is when the "appointed times of the nations" would end.

    So again, after Luke introduces events to occur during the time of the end, he clearly says, BUT BEFORE THESE THINGS... after which he introduces the fall of Jerusalem. He never mentions Daniel. So Jerusalem is not a part of the last days. It has parallels but does not fulfill that one-time great tribulation as does the HOLOCAUST.

    But thanks for your references! The "great tribulation" of Matthew must occur between a 7-year period from 1940-1947 to fulfill the chronology. In modern times, the Jews are in exile, so "Judea" becomes a reference to where most of the Jews had settled, which is Eastern Europe, and "Jerusalem", the holy city would be where the largest population of Jews had settled, which was Warsaw, Poland. That city was literally surrounded by the Nazis just as an army surrounded Jerusalem.

    Thanks, again, for your comments and the scriptures!

    M smiddy posted Thu, 24 Jan 2013 08:06:05 GMT(1/24/2013)

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    How can I print the map without getting every other comment , I just want the map. Oh by the way thanks Cedars

    smiddy

    Xanthippe posted Thu, 24 Jan 2013 09:11:47 GMT(1/24/2013)

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    Not if the end hasn't come. It didn't come did it, did I miss something?

    bats in the belfry posted Thu, 24 Jan 2013 09:54:32 GMT(1/24/2013)

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    smiddy >> Put your mouse pointer over the map, right click and 'Save Image As..."

    Then print the map or run it through a drawing program. like MS Paint, etc.

    Ucantnome posted Thu, 24 Jan 2013 09:59:19 GMT(1/24/2013)

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    i don't believe it was the right Good News and it lead to not partaking of the emblems.

    Fernando posted Thu, 24 Jan 2013 10:25:27 GMT(1/24/2013)

    Post 1599 of 3233
    Joined 9/21/2009

    Since as blind materialists they walk by flesh and sight, instead of by spirit, they are only able to discern the future physical dimensions of the Kingdom in relation to this earth alone.

    The Kingdom is far more than this.

    It is especially about us ordinary folk being transformed from within and led by Holy Spirit without the "help" of middlemen.

    This is shocking to the ruling religious clergy class (builders of a competing kingdom). That is why the cornerstone of the Kingdom is referred to as as a "rock mass of offense" and a "stone of stumbling".

    Phizzy posted Thu, 24 Jan 2013 11:06:32 GMT(1/24/2013)

    Post 2704 of 7044
    Joined 12/17/2011

    Just to repeat, for emphasis LOL, the WT/JW's have NEVER preached the Gospel or Good news that Jesus referred to, so could never fulfill any prophecy concerning that Gospel.

    Everything they preach negates the true Gospel that Jesus gave.

    We have to remember that the Gospels were written after the 70CE destruction,(a few verses of Mark may pre date the destruction perhaps), so to put in to the mouth of Jesus a "prophecy" that the readers have seen fulfilled makes (fiction writing) sense. To look for a later fulfilment than the end of the Jewish system in 70CE seems to have no backing whatsoever.

    Ever since the early 1800's people have been fiddling with various scriptures and coming up with wonderful explanations that strangely always find fulfillment around their own time.

    Modern Bible scholarship, coupled wth common sense, makes this kind of exercise as valuable as calculating horoscopes, i.e worthless.

    Pterist posted Thu, 24 Jan 2013 13:56:05 GMT(1/24/2013)

    Post 727 of 1428
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    Lars *** Luke does not mention Daniel at all in connection with Jerusalem.****

    Luke may NOT have specifically mentioned Daniel by name, however, it has been observed by Bible scholars that Luke is the ONLY one of the gospel writers who identifies "the disgusting thing that causes desolation" as the Roman army surrounding Jerusalem. Based on this observation it has been concluded that he wrote his Gospel with hindsight after this event. I concur with VanderHoven7's excellent details on how these events were specifically fulfilled in 70 AD.

    Christ next visit to earth, is like a THIEF in the night, NO SIGNS, and no further dealing with sin.

    Hebrews 9:28

    so also Christ died once for all time as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to all who are eagerly waiting for him.

    Amelia Ashton posted Thu, 24 Jan 2013 14:02:56 GMT(1/24/2013)

    Post 1253 of 1913
    Joined 11/2/2010

    Vanderhoven: How wonderful for you to break this down and explain this interpretation.

    I agree.

    I didn't read the rest of Larsinger's post after that statement though.

    Vanderhoven: How wonderful for you to break this down and explain this interpretation.

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