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How to Record a Judicial Meeting

    M Terry posted Sat, 17 Mar 2012 21:33:00 GMT(3/17/2012)

    Post 12528 of 15997
    Joined 6/19/2004

    An attorney is trained and proficient in the law of the land and not in theological matters of policy.

    Religion is a private club with membership. The rules and bylaws are voluntary inasmuch as no one is forced to join or

    remain a member. The exercise of disciplinary action is a matter of jurisdiction.

    F lisaBObeesa posted Sat, 17 Mar 2012 21:36:00 GMT(3/17/2012)

    Post 1883 of 2288
    Joined 5/8/2001

    get these mics (or similar...they don't need to be super high quality, just very small with a long cord.):

    http://www.core-sound.com/lcmics/1.php

    plug the mics into one of these (any decent digital recorder with a 'mic in' option will work):

    http://www.amazon.com/Edirol-R-09-WAVE-MP3-Recorder-Black/dp/B000FPQFKO

    put the recorder (size of a box of cigarettes) in your pocket, your purse, whatever. clip the mics under your collar so they can't be seen, or to your glasses if you have long hair that will cover them. just before you get out of your car, turn the recorder on.

    Easy peasy, lemon squeezy.

    (only recommended for states where it is legal to record a conversation like this of course.)

    (And actually, the recorder above is good enough that it would record without the mics, just sitting in a purse or in a pocket...the mics would just help get a better recording. I've also had success with a camera to record the audio, as another poster said.)

    Glander posted Sat, 17 Mar 2012 21:39:00 GMT(3/17/2012)

    Post 947 of 3772
    Joined 9/30/2010

    Wow, cool! Just like going to an Acorn office!

    Conan The Barbarian posted Sat, 17 Mar 2012 22:03:00 GMT(3/17/2012)

    Post 8 of 53
    Joined 3/14/2012

    Hey, Ziddina; The way you get a Lawyer into a JC Meeting is to just bring him/her with you. The Elders will object. You say, okay, we will leave. Ask what the charges are. They have to tell you. If you are innocent, say so and then get up and leave with the Lawyer. Let it fly from there.

    EntirelyPossible posted Sat, 17 Mar 2012 22:28:00 GMT(3/17/2012)

    Post 1863 of 5632
    Joined 3/20/2011

    when I had my JC about 2 years ago (wow, hard to believed I've been out that long, time flies when you are living life) they did not ask me if I had a recording device. I wish I had taken one, though.The part where they told me not to use the bible anymore would have been comedy gold.

    ziddina posted Sat, 17 Mar 2012 22:34:00 GMT(3/17/2012)

    Post 8459 of 10450
    Joined 4/8/2009
    "An attorney is trained and proficient in the law of the land and not in theological matters of policy..." Terry

    Ah, but when religious practices BREAK the "laws of the Land", then a lawyer can come in very handy...

    Slander, alienation of affection, undue interference with a family's unity...

    I'm sure that a real lawyer would be able to come up with some other ideas...

    Glander posted Sat, 17 Mar 2012 23:11:00 GMT(3/17/2012)

    Post 948 of 3772
    Joined 9/30/2010

    A little pricey but high quality vid and sound. Hopefully, they won't notice

    gopro motorsports helmet camera 221x300 Tips For Buying A Helmet Camera

    Chariklo posted Sat, 17 Mar 2012 23:25:00 GMT(3/17/2012)

    Post 594 of 2623
    Joined 5/9/2011
    Wall outlet face, wall light switch - fitting, in consideration of "flickering" NOO LITE...

    I enjoyed, that, Ziddina!

    Thanks for all the recommendations, too. We're all set, we can go out there and spy on them to our heart's content!

    ziddina posted Sat, 17 Mar 2012 23:29:00 GMT(3/17/2012)

    Post 8461 of 10450
    Joined 4/8/2009
    "...We're all set, we can go out there and spy on them to our heart's content!..."

    That's a delightfully eeeee - vil idea...!!

    M Jim_TX posted Sat, 17 Mar 2012 23:33:00 GMT(3/17/2012)

    Post 2928 of 3256
    Joined 5/12/2002

    Just remember though. The microphones on the recording devices are very sensitive. You don't want to put the recorder in your pocket and then be moving around a lot. The fabric moving and other rubbing noises will be louder than the voices in the room.

    Regards,

    Jim TX

    PaintedToeNail posted Sun, 18 Mar 2012 02:26:00 GMT(3/18/2012)

    Post 393 of 1158
    Joined 7/17/2011

    In some states it is illegal to record conversations unless all parties are aware of the recording. A family member was defrauded by someone, recorded a phone conversation with the defrauder...the defrauded person made the FBI aware of the recording, and was told it is illegal in Pennsy. to record unless everyone approves. FYI.

    NOLAW posted Sun, 18 Mar 2012 02:52:00 GMT(3/18/2012)

    Post 105 of 662
    Joined 2/5/2012

    Illegal here. Not accepted in court.

    clearpoison posted Sun, 18 Mar 2012 12:35:00 GMT(3/18/2012)

    Post 236 of 391
    Joined 11/2/2010

    I have no clue how they actually could refer to confidentiality, who is protected by this confidentiality? It is you who is interviewed there not them, it's about your confidential issues, not theirs, just an assumption. If you choose to spread the recording containing your confidential sins, you may do it, it's not their business at all.

    I know, I know, they don't see it that way, but it's very illogical.

    CP

    Sayswho posted Sun, 18 Mar 2012 12:44:00 GMT(3/18/2012)

    Post 286 of 585
    Joined 4/25/2010

    • Perhaps an upfront discloser like below could be used before the meeting started.

    The following phrases may be used to request person's consent:

    "For training purposes and your own security your call may be monitored and recorded."

    "In order to ensure excellent customer service, your call may be monitored or recorded."

    "Thank you for calling America Online. To insure the highest level of customer service, this call may be monitored and recorded."

    "All Blue HealthLine calls are completely confidential. However, your call may be monitored and recorded to insure quality of service."

    As we see here, the quotes (taken from real life telephone operators) reflect and disclose pretty honestly a purpose of recording a call.

    http://www.callcorder.com/phone-recording-law.htm

    Sw

    John_Mann posted Sun, 18 Mar 2012 15:29:00 GMT(3/18/2012)

    Post 38 of 534
    Joined 1/2/2011

    The best tip I ever heard is to carry two recorders. When they ask about the recording you can say that you have one, so they will ask to stop it. Then you can put the one recorder upon the table and the second one will continue to record.

    They will not ask if you have two or more recorders, and then you already did you have one and stop it, they'll be relaxed after that.

    Simple but very effective.

    00DAD posted Sun, 18 Mar 2012 18:12:00 GMT(3/18/2012)

    Post 1882 of 5183
    Joined 7/29/2011

    I'm enjoying all the comments you've all made on this post. Informative, funny, irreverent and more!

    As far as the legality or not of recording a meeting like that I really can't see how it would ever be an issue. Seriously, what could the elders possibly do? Call the police on you?

    Elder Ima Fended: "Officer, we're having a secret "Star Chamber" judicial meeting with a member of our congregation and he recorded it without our permission. We'd like you to come and arrest him!"

    Police Officer: "Hahahahahahahahahaha ...... CLICK!"

    Do you think they'd pursue criminal charges? If they did, (which they wouldn't), the easiest defense would be to expose their draconian "Star Chamber" judicial process and say that in desperation it was THE ONLY way that you believed you could protect your own interests!

    I think any judge would acknowledge the reasonableness of that in light of the WTBTS's clearly one-sided (in their favor) policies.

    In the US Supreme Court case, Paul v WTBTS of NY, Inc , one of the Supreme Court justices said this about the WTBTS's rules and regulations:

    • "The Witnesses … have developed an elaborate set of rules governing membership."

    Also, if the Elders DID try to pursue any legal action, it would allow the individual to expose in open court any and all ridiculous statements made by said elders in the recorded meeting. I can't see them risking it!

    Let's review: In any civilized society judicial matters are open. Transcripts are kept. In the U.S. when lawyers depose individuals in preparation for trial they ALWAYS have a court reporter present to create a transcript. The WT's policy of forbidding a record of the meetings is just plain wrong. I for one have no problem breaking rules that are wrong. It's called Civil Disobedience. It's an American Tradition!

    Ya' just gotta' be prepared to suffer/deal with the consequences.

    00DAD

    ex360shipper posted Sun, 18 Mar 2012 18:45:00 GMT(3/18/2012)

    Post 196 of 256
    Joined 11/26/2011

    I know of one person who posted here that they threatened legal action and they were never announced as df'd. Are there more cases anyone knows of?

    SweetBabyCheezits posted Sun, 18 Mar 2012 21:14:00 GMT(3/18/2012)

    Post 2221 of 2503
    Joined 5/11/2010

    I used my iPhone to record our meeting and we got a half-decent audio file. But I also got busted - my own stupid fault for getting greedy and leaving my iPhone in the conference room after we were asked to leave. Turns out, though, that "mistake" bought us the time we needed to attend the BiL's wedding. (Our kiddos were flower girl & ring bearer so we wanted to get that out of the way before the announcement.) Anyways, the elders had to consult headquarters for further direction when they found out I'd recorded the meeting and we scored an extra week or two, then rec'd the DF verdict, appealed, attended the wedding, then canceled the appeal and were announced the following week.

    Here's the long of it, including how I hid my iPhone in plain sight:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/198852/1/SBCheezits-Judicial-Hearing-My-EPIC-FAIL-REPOST-for-IE-users

    biometrics posted Sun, 18 Mar 2012 21:39:00 GMT(3/18/2012)

    Post 87 of 641
    Joined 2/21/2012

    Just bring in two recording devices. One old tape deck (a big one), and one spy device (like the pen). When asked about recording, surrender the old tape deck, and say "I'm not comfortable with this, but let's proceed anyhow".

    M OnTheWayOut posted Sun, 18 Mar 2012 21:55:00 GMT(3/18/2012)

    Post 15147 of 18160
    Joined 9/8/2006

    I really believe that if you are asked to meet with the elders you should avoid it at all costs. If the meeting is really just a "shepherding call" then there is really no downside to meeting with them other than the possibility of saying something that later on can be used against you. Of course, meeting could buy you some time and good-will in respects to your fade.

    On the other hand, if it is a meeting with two elders sent to "investigate the matter" there is no downside to refusing to meet and a lot of good reasons to avoid the meeting.

    A couple of elders will do their best to DENY or at least AVOID ADMITTING that they are investigating the matter. Don't be fooled by elders saying they are there to shepherd or encourage you. That can be the "part of the truth" they share to avoid saying they are also investigating.

    I almost decided to meet with an elder recently. If you met with just one elder alone, you might be able to be sure it's not an investigation. But this guy I almost met with would have brought someone else.

    You just need to stop at "you should avoid it."

    I love your suggestions about asking to see where it is written that recording a JC is not allowed and how you should refuse to cooperate when they don't show you. I don't plan to bring a recording device other than a pen and paper should I ever be in a JC. I will keep this in mind.

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