Why Women Are Treated Second Class In This Organization?

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    AvocadoJake posted Mon, 14 Nov 2011 07:45:00 GMT(11/14/2011)

    Post 94 of 229
    Joined 10/24/2011

    The best Bible scholars have been women in my realm of this religious world. The women study their husbands Watchtowers, prepare the parts, write their talks, put their ties on, get the shave cream out of their ears. It must be hard and you must have the patiences of Job, to be able to listen to, the many arrogant men and how you will (If you are a female annointed.) ruling only over women in Heaven. How are you able to not laugh, when you hear things like "The Sun Never Set On The Babylonian Empire?" "When In Babylon, Due As the Babylonians Do?" "Simple Cell Orgasms are not so simple!" Brothers who are not able to read, yet they are elders. Sisters who could have a degree from Moody's Bible School (their knowledge is deep.), yet listen without mocking or laughing at the proud bumpkins.

    clarity posted Mon, 14 Nov 2011 08:02:00 GMT(11/14/2011)

    Post 1273 of 4020
    Joined 8/9/2010

    Hi,

    Did you mean ... organisms?

    {Simple Cell Orgasms are not so simple!" }

    trueblue posted Mon, 14 Nov 2011 10:06:00 GMT(11/14/2011)

    Post 488 of 639
    Joined 6/29/2009

    I haven't found the scripture lately but it said "When a woman speaks the truth about God, Kings of armies will flee". May be that is what they are afraid of...

    Band on the Run posted Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:28:00 GMT(11/14/2011)

    Post 2968 of 9802
    Joined 12/18/2010

    I was appalled growing up at the intense hatred of women. God created us but we can only do robotic tasks. I was practicing in a large law firm, stayed with the family through thick and thin, completed every task, etc. My clueless bro dropped out of society completely into a political cult. He comes home after a decade of not knowing whether he was alive. My JW uncle ordered me to take my place. Brother would now make all family decisions. It was the day I finally screamed back and lost it emotionally.

    The Bible, even at its most 1st century, does not lead to hatred of women. Paul's colleagues were women and are mentioned prominently. Mary Magdalene supported Jesus financially. She was a close disciple. I was able to work for a Senate Subcommittee and came in contact with conservative, Bible thumping Southern senators. They paid lip service to the Bible edicts. Privately, they said it had to be taken with a grain of salt. I recall one ultra conservative actually interrupting a Bible thumping pastor concerning women's rights.

    These marriages must be hell. Rutherford detested women but could not abstain from them. It seems to me, though, that it is now too tenuous an explanation. Women could completely take over the organization.

    Lunatic Faith posted Mon, 14 Nov 2011 11:46:00 GMT(11/14/2011)

    Post 292 of 297
    Joined 2/4/2011

    I've always been a hard studying student. I remember being in my 20's and receiving a 'shepherding call' from a couple elders. I realized I knew more than they did. My knowledge was more profound than theirs. I remember having to sit silent in a meeting rather than contradict a brother who had made a wrong comment. Brothers would get opportunities to go to Bethel or MTS school or theocratic ministry school--while I used my knowledge to knock on not-at-homes and make comments. I loved giving talks because it was the one time I could really shine because the vast majority of people, it seemed, had no speaking ability or reasoning ability or writing ability. After reading and studying everything published by the WTS, including the Insight books, I realized there was 'nothing new under the sun.' So many people in that organization never bother scratching the surface so they are always abundantly 'fed' spiritually with the same message over and over again. It used to irritate me at book study when it was so imperative a brother read that we would have to sit through an awful reading by a nearly illiterate brother rather than let a sister read. Sisters were always better readers!

    M THE GLADIATOR posted Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:11:00 GMT(11/14/2011)

    Post 1759 of 2663
    Joined 5/31/2001

    The Watchtower Society has based its structure on the old testament patriarchal system. This second class position for women is repeated by Saint Paul and has been perpetuated by fundamentalist Christians. The bible is all about heavenly kings, priests, father and son duos. Heaven is an all male club. Even female members of the annointed class become male when they get to heaven.

    Mind you Muslims loyal to the Koran have an even worse view of woman. Allah and Jehovah were not enlightened gods. Probably the result of poor parenting!

    designs posted Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:25:00 GMT(11/14/2011)

    Post 7355 of 19104
    Joined 6/17/2009

    'Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration' Bene Gesserit

    In the misguided notion of 'protecting women' Christianity, Judaism, and Islam held women back from leadership roles in history.

    NewChapter posted Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:26:00 GMT(11/14/2011)

    Post 4303 of 11880
    Joined 1/25/2011

    I used to deeply study the bible, and in doing so, would come up with very difficult questions. I would research the questions for a while, then I would ask an elder. They would just look through me and shrug. They had no idea, and not only that, they didn't even have enough knowledge to ask such a question. I would sometimes refer to quirky details I had read in the literature, and several times elders did not remember them, and they would publically put me down---the society never said that. I would actually get shaky, because it was quite humiliating to be talked to like that in public, and I would go look it up. I was always right--and I always wanted to prove that to them--but I was afraid that wouldn't be "humble" and challenging the elders would be "wrong" it wasn't my "place".

    One time an elder was talking about the need for the seed after Adam and Eve sinned. At that time I mentioned that the society had said that possibly Eve thought that Cain was that seed. He talked to me like I was the stupidest woman on earth. "Oh, Eve knew better, She would have never thought that Cain was the seed." His tone said it all, and it was in front of someone. I felt so shaky and embarrassed. But I went home and looked it up. That is exactly what the Revelation Climax book said--therefore the society did say it.

    Anyway, that was just one occurance. It happened quite often. They are arrogant and think a woman could not have studied and learned more that them.

    anc

    M Paralipomenon posted Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:27:00 GMT(11/14/2011)

    Post 1779 of 2148
    Joined 11/29/2006

    i've always wondered why women accept being treated like second class citizens in the org.

    Lunatic Faith posted Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:27:00 GMT(11/14/2011)

    Post 294 of 297
    Joined 2/4/2011

    I've actually heard it said that Paul didn't like women. He never got married and it is his teachings that defined women's roles in the christian church. The longer I am away the more I see Christianity is based largely upon Paul's teachings and not Christs.

    designs posted Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:38:00 GMT(11/14/2011)

    Post 7357 of 19104
    Joined 6/17/2009

    LF-

    Jesus was not an Equal Opportunity Employer.

    Lunatic Faith posted Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:48:00 GMT(11/14/2011)

    Post 295 of 297
    Joined 2/4/2011

    No, that's for sure. His disciples were all men. I remember one elders wife commenting that the women who followed Jesus and his disciples around were there to wash their underwear. They were all part of a patriarchal society, but Paul is the one who says, "a man should not touch a woman," and "I do not permit a woman to teach," and "Women should keep silent" or "question their own husbands." Jesus did not address women's roles as thoroughly as Paul and Jesus was loved by many women.

    designs posted Mon, 14 Nov 2011 13:59:00 GMT(11/14/2011)

    Post 7361 of 19104
    Joined 6/17/2009

    'Experiencing The Joy Of The Submissive Mind' Subserviant cultures are very powerful and very difficult to break free from.

    I read a historical work recently on Caroline Hershcel who was one of the great astronomers in the 1700s, fascinating study.

    N.drew posted Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:01:00 GMT(11/14/2011)

    Post 1553 of 4788
    Joined 8/10/2011

    Hi Lunatic Faith! I did not grow up in the religion. I was in my early 30s. I was married to an atheist. He said the society was interested in buying real estate in New York. I said that's ridiculous! But I guess not. I had two young children. I thought going to three meetings a week was too much so I went Sundays and then added the Book Study. It was a while before I went to the Theocratic School. If there was no Theocratic School I might never have become a JW. I was entralled! I still vaguely remember the day. The reason is there were sisters giving the talks at the school that night that reflected what you said.

    I loved giving talks because it was the one time I could really shine
    N.drew posted Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:01:00 GMT(11/14/2011)

    Post 1554 of 4788
    Joined 8/10/2011

    I got a double I eraced it

    designs posted Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:07:00 GMT(11/14/2011)

    Post 7362 of 19104
    Joined 6/17/2009

    ND-

    We had a sister in my last KH who was a School Teacher and one time she gave her talk sitting in a chair facing the audience like you would in a classroom. You would have thought the Suffragettes had just shown up! Total panic among the brothers and sisters

    M tenyearsafter posted Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:10:00 GMT(11/14/2011)

    Post 1192 of 1596
    Joined 6/9/2007

    LF...I certainly understand how women would feel like second class citizens in the Borg. I don't know that I would go so far as saying that Christendom in general treats women like JW's do. There are many women in positions of ministry and teaching. Paul's teachings are viewed as a bridge between Jews, who were strong believers in women having a lesser role, and Christians who would be encouraged to not "stumble" those who were still influenced by old Jewish law and the many cultural traditions existing in the 1st Century. I think the attitude towards women JW's eschew is more a result of their taking a literal interpretation of Paul's words than looking at them in the context of the day they were spoken. With that being said, there are plenty of conservative denominations of Christendom, along with Islam, etc. that view women in a diminished role.

    Found Sheep posted Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:14:00 GMT(11/14/2011)

    Post 1904 of 3453
    Joined 5/13/2009

    Not any more!!! I love not feeling squished

    designs posted Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:16:00 GMT(11/14/2011)

    Post 7363 of 19104
    Joined 6/17/2009

    tya-

    I think what Christian Denominations have had to do is split into Liberal and Conservative Branches. The Society is still stuck in a very male dominated heirarcy.

    What is the highest ranking position for a sister at Bethel.

    M tenyearsafter posted Mon, 14 Nov 2011 14:34:00 GMT(11/14/2011)

    Post 1194 of 1596
    Joined 6/9/2007

    designs, I agree...the WTS enforces their orthodoxy via judicial discipline. Christendom has the very conservative denominations, but the majority seem to be much more "equal" in the treatment of women. It is very common for women to lead prayer or teach in a worship service...something you would never see in a mixed sex JW meeting. I am not saying these Christian churches are without fault, just that they tend to treat women more inclusively.

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