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The Watchtower, Christianity and Cultism

    Nickolas posted Wed, 08 Jun 2011 17:43:00 GMT(6/8/2011)

    Post 1525 of 2286
    Joined 9/27/2010

    If you want to upset a Jehovah's Witness, refer to the Watchtower as a sect. If you really want to upset a Jehovah's Witness, refer to the Watchtower as a cult. That's pretty much a conversation stopper.

    The Watchtower denigrates the rest of Christianity. It doesn't even refer to the rest of Christianity as such, preferring the putdown of Christendom. But looking at it from the outside in, the similarities between the Watchtower and Christianity are far more numerous than their differences. One seeks to control the lives of its adherents more closely than the other, but only from the modern perspective. Christianity's been around for 2,000 years, after all. As much as modern Christians (including Jehovah's Witnesses) prefer to compare themselves to the first century Christian movement, what about all those centuries in between?

    Who I am is not only the man I am today plus who I was as an infant but the person I was over the course of my entire life. When I'm a very old man and my days are dwindling down to a precious few I will look back over the course of my life and I will judge myself. This has nothing to do with an eternal hope, because I have none, but because I acknowledge responsibility for all the things I have done in my life, in particular the things I have done that hurt others. I am the sum of my parts. So is Christianity.

    Christianity it is not defined by what it is today but by what it has been throughout the ages, and how it has affected the lives of countless billions of people. Christianity is not a modern phenomenon. Through the ages and even as recently as 50 years ago, the stewards of Christianity - the popes, the prelates, the kings, the emperors and the rest - were as or more oppressive in their control over the lives of people as is the Watchtower today. And when I look upon the works of Christianity, past and present, I see a picture that is not beautiful. So, the question I have to ask myself is, if the Watchtower is a cult, as so many people in here believe, is Christianity itself a cult?

    I believe that Steve Hassan answers your question in "Combatting Cult Mind Control". It depends on how one defines a cult. Cults can be religious, business, etc. Christians have done a lot of bad things for the last 2,000 years, so have people, who are not religious, and so have governments. Organizations are composed of people, so why not ask, "Why do people form mind controlling cults?" or "Why do people join mind controlling cults?"

    People can choose to blame Our Father, Jesus Chris, and the Holy Spirit or they can look in the mirror and remind themselves that Jesus Christ did warn mankind about false prophets and now individuals are responsible for taking appropriate actions. I like Benjamin Franklin Gates' dialogue in National Treasure about interpreting a passage in the Declaration of Independence, "If there's something wrong, those who have the ability to take action have the responsibility to take action." It is always easier to blame someone else instead of taking responsibilities for one's own actions or lack of action.

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

    ABibleStudent

    jay88 posted Wed, 08 Jun 2011 17:58:00 GMT(6/8/2011)

    Post 453 of 797
    Joined 10/11/2010

    If Christianity is a subsidiary of Judaism then what is Judaism?

    Nickolas posted Wed, 08 Jun 2011 18:02:00 GMT(6/8/2011)

    Post 1529 of 2286
    Joined 9/27/2010

    Another cult, perhaps?

    OUTLAW posted Wed, 08 Jun 2011 18:02:00 GMT(6/8/2011)

    Post 20498 of 23900
    Joined 10/11/2001
    If you want to upset a Jehovah's Witness, refer to the Watchtower as a sect.
    If you really want to upset a Jehovah's Witness, refer to the Watchtower as a cult.That's pretty much a conversation stopper.....Nickolas

    You can do one better..

    The WBT$ has replaced Jesus as Mediator,with the exception of the 144,000..

    Jehovah`s Witness`s follow an Anti-Christ organization..

    Sacrifice Your lives and the Lives of your Children..

    For the WBT$ AntiChrist..

    .................. ...OUTLAW

    jay88 posted Wed, 08 Jun 2011 18:12:00 GMT(6/8/2011)

    Post 454 of 797
    Joined 10/11/2010

    Cult/Culture is inevitable,why can it not be seperated in our culture like aesop fables or stories written by Shakepeare....why does it have this tremendous placebo effect, which some call spirituality?

    PSacramento posted Wed, 08 Jun 2011 18:27:00 GMT(6/8/2011)

    Post 8481 of 10925
    Joined 6/22/2009

    All religions are cults, yes.

    –noun

    1. a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies. 2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, especially as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult. 3. the object of such devotion.

    RayPublisher posted Wed, 08 Jun 2011 18:51:00 GMT(6/8/2011)

    Post 110 of 1898
    Joined 3/1/2011

    Here we go the atheists and haters are on the loose again...RUN FOR YOUR LIVES. But that avatar Nicolas has is de-evolving! Cool, didn't Devo get their name from that idea?

    The last thing that it is politically okay to make fun of and ridicule openly: Christianity

    ;-)

    godrulz posted Wed, 08 Jun 2011 19:18:00 GMT(6/8/2011)

    Post 788 of 1122
    Joined 11/6/2009

    From an evangelical Christian point of view, Christianity is a relationship with the risen Christ. He is the founder, foundation, Head, cornerstone, etc. Our faith is in the person of Jehovah God in Christ (Jesus is YHWH), not a man, not an organization, not an angel. Cults and world religions deviate significantly from essential divine revelation embodied in Judeo-Christianity. Mormonism is a pseudo-Christian cult because they promote plurality of gods/polytheism vs biblical monotheism. They have a different gospel and jesus. WT also started around one man's interpretations that have no historical precedent. Again, it denies the essentials of the faith including the Deity and physical resurrection of Christ, salvation by grace through faith alone, etc. It is not pejorative to call JWs and Mormons a pseudo-Christian cult, not biblical, historical, orthodox Christianity.

    WT defines cult in a narrow way as being small, fringe groups with authoritarian leaders, etc. They manage to exclude themselves by making a definition to suit their purposes, yet blind to their autocratic ways, heterodox beliefs and practices, etc. With their blood view and harsh disfellowshipping manipulation, they are one of the largest, most dangerous cults in the world, in the guise of 'Christianity'. They try to distance themselves from 'Christendom', but deny Christianity in the process.

    M BluesBrother posted Wed, 08 Jun 2011 19:27:00 GMT(6/8/2011)

    Post 6647 of 8374
    Joined 10/29/2001

    The WTS uses the word Christendom liberally and we all know what they mean - but what does it really mean in the dictionary?

      • the collective body of Christians throughout the world and history (found predominantly in Europe and the Americas and Australia); "for a thousand years the Roman Catholic Church was the principal church of Christendom"
      • wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
      • Christendom, or the Christian world, has several meanings. In a cultural sense it refers to the worldwide community of Christians, adherents of Christianity. ...
      • en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christendom
      • Traditionally, the part of the world traditionally dominated by Christianity: most of Europe, Australasia and the Americas, plus parts of the Third World. This ignores the social importance of migrant communities from non-Christian societies of the Third World.
      • www.csa.com/discoveryguides/religion/gloss.php
      • This derogatory term is used to refer to Protestant and Catholic groups, which are thought to have been established in the fourth century by the un-baptized Roman emperor, Constantine the Great.
      • www.4truth.net/site/c.hiKXLbPNLrF/b.2950183/

    InterestedOne posted Wed, 08 Jun 2011 19:33:00 GMT(6/8/2011)

    Post 345 of 939
    Joined 10/19/2010

    So, the question I have to ask myself is, if the Watchtower is a cult, as so many people in here believe, is Christianity itself a cult?

    I've checked out a few ex-Christian forums, and I see people who are exiting Christianity referring to it as a cult. As an ex-Christian, I find myself also thinking of it that way. I recall an episode of "The Atheist Experience"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OCYhDFc42I

    where at 00:50 Jeff Dee has a brief exchange with the Christian caller and says "what's wrong with you?"

    I think Jeff's sentiments sum up one reason why I also tend to think of Christianity as a cult.

    designs posted Wed, 08 Jun 2011 19:37:00 GMT(6/8/2011)

    Post 4684 of 18328
    Joined 6/17/2009

    Every Religion is a Cult except godrulz's cult.......... get what a surprise

    Oh I like this one 'Our faith is in the person of Jehovah God in christ (Jesus is YHWH), not a man' See this is where you come up with 171/2 different versions of Jesus just within Orthodox Christianity.

    But he's not in a Cult...really

    ABibleStudent posted Wed, 08 Jun 2011 19:38:00 GMT(6/8/2011)

    Post 108 of 2753
    Joined 8/5/2010
    Nikolas - if the Watchtower is a cult, as so many people in here believe, is Christianity itself a cult?

    Mt 7:15-23 (NIV 2008) 15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

    21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

    designs posted Wed, 08 Jun 2011 19:43:00 GMT(6/8/2011)

    Post 4685 of 18328
    Joined 6/17/2009

    ABS-

    Like Nicholas suggested Christians like to pass the Buck, they did exactly what they read in the Bible, and if Jesus had any power at all and let over a Billion humans suffer and be massacred by his Followers and did nothing to stop it then he deserves all of the scorn we can heap at him.

    Resistance is Futile posted Wed, 08 Jun 2011 19:49:00 GMT(6/8/2011)

    Post 50 of 441
    Joined 2/21/2011

    Is Christianity a cult? Yes, it's a cult/sect of Judaism.

    The stories about Jesus in the Bible also portray him as being a prototypical cult leader.

    godrulz posted Wed, 08 Jun 2011 20:03:00 GMT(6/8/2011)

    Post 790 of 1122
    Joined 11/6/2009

    designs: Biblical, historical, orthodox Christianity affirms trinity and Deity of Christ. Modalism is a minority heresy that still affirms the Deity of Christ. JW Arianism is heretical and not Christian in any sense. So, countless Christians and denominations have the same Christology, even Catholic/Orthodox/Protestant/Evangelical. It is false to say that Christians are divided on this issue. Our divisions are over peripheral things. Mormonism and JWs are pseudo-Christian cults especially on their defective doctrine of God/Christology.

    Resistance: you have semantical issues and wrongly assume any similarity proves identical. Jesus was a servant leader, God Himself. Jim Jones was an egomaniacal, possessed fleshly fraud. You lack discernment and wisdom. Christianity is also progressive revelation on the foundation of Judaism. It is not a splinter sect that is false or contrary to it.

    bohm posted Wed, 08 Jun 2011 20:15:00 GMT(6/8/2011)

    Post 3223 of 5556
    Joined 5/12/2009

    godrulz: What church are you member of?

    godrulz posted Wed, 08 Jun 2011 21:42:00 GMT(6/8/2011)

    Post 791 of 1122
    Joined 11/6/2009

    Happily, not the Church of Satan. I consider myself an evangelical Christian (which is actually broad), born again, biblical Christian, disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ (YHWH in the flesh, the God-Man). I am classical Pentecostal by denomination and experience (speak in tongues, etc.) because I believe it is closest to biblical practice and belief (though there is a large spectrum of beliefs within Pentecostalism and I personally have non-traditional beliefs like Open Theism). The local church I fellowship with is part of Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada (statement of beliefs under tab about us what we believe), sister organization to Assemblies of God in the U.S.

    designs posted Wed, 08 Jun 2011 22:06:00 GMT(6/8/2011)

    Post 4686 of 18328
    Joined 6/17/2009

    godrulz- You see when you use terms like 'heretic' it really has no meaning other than to get across your narrow views to the exclusion of other thinkers on what it means to believe in this Jesus of the NT. What history records is the large scale slaughter of innocent people by Believers who held Orthodox Christian views. I know its tough to swallow but hey if you are going to kick the Watchtower and JW Beliefs you better have stronger replys for your own Cult's horrible behavior.

    Nickolas posted Wed, 08 Jun 2011 23:49:00 GMT(6/8/2011)

    Post 1533 of 2286
    Joined 9/27/2010

    Yes, OUTLAW, that would take the thing up a notch or two to be sure.

    You know, RayPublisher, it's just a simple, unemotional question. Neither hate nor ridicule involved, and how does one make fun of something that has caused so much misery in the world? No, I don't think it's funny at all. One of the things about being in a cult is not knowing or believing that you're in a cult and it is invariably those who are in a cult who are its greatest apologists. My avatar? Just an acknowledgement of the lowly place from which I come, and how insignificant and unimportant I really am.

    Band on the Run posted Wed, 08 Jun 2011 23:56:00 GMT(6/8/2011)

    Post 1391 of 9384
    Joined 12/18/2010

    Cult is no longer a neutral, denotive term. It is a social judgment. Christianity is an off-shoot of Judaism and the major religious tradition in the West. It certainly started as a cult, Indeed, it was clearly a cult during its formative years.

    I am proud to belong to the cult of Christianity. Because I don't agree with your assumptions. Christians are not Christians b/c of historical accident. We proclaim the Risen Christ who is present to us in a real sense at the present moment. Christians have acknowledged and celebrated this presence since the resurrection of an individual known as Jesus of Nazareth.

    Jesus is only a good teacher or prophet, like so many before and since, in your view. Christians don't worship good works. We worship the incarnate God who will come again to judge the living and the dead.

    Otherwise, only historians, anthropoligists, etc. would be interested in a religious tradition.

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