Is the WTBTS having cash flow problems?

I was at a 2 day circuit assembly this weekend and I was surprised at how many times mention was made directly or indirectly reminding those in attendance (1,600) of the need to give $$$.  Even in the soliloquies or skits they seemed to work in the need to give $$$.

It made me wonder if the Society is having 'cash flow' problems and hence is desparate for cash.  Over the years that I've attended conventions and assemblies the need to give $$$ has been subtle (IMO), til now. 

Just how blatant did it get?

I've noticed in recent assemblies and conventions that they started to inform the friends that they could now give $$$ using debit/credit cards.  And I started to see small card tables to one side where you could donate.  This time was different! Way different!

I walked into the lobby.  In addition to the usual cardboard donation boxes, I saw two tables (twice the size of card tables) about 30' apart.  These tables were not backed up to wall, out of the way like I'd seen at previous visits.  No, they were smack dab in the middle of the lobby and on top of each table was a sign in bold print that read 'DEBIT/CREDIT CARD DONATIONS'.  One table had a brother with a portable card swipping machine at the ready and the other table had 2 sisters each with their own card swipping machine at the ready.  It immediately reminded me of Jesus' reference to the money changers that he wound up throwing out of the temple.  My wife & I were really taken back by this!

I've read in past WT publications where the society boosts that they 'will never beg nor petition men for support' (The Silver Is Mine, The Gold Is Mine 11/1/07 W pg 17 par 3).  This comes damn near close to begging! 

I've read numerous posts on this forum where many anticipate the WBTS going mainstream.  Well, I'm convince that they are going mainstream in terms of how they intend to generate revenue.  Is the passing of the 'collection plate' next?

My overall opinion of the assembly.....on a scale of 1 to 10.   A disappointing 3!  Will share some notes on other posts.

Thank you.

P.S.  Was wondering if any of you who have attended recent assemblies/conventions have noticed the same thing regarding $$$$.

I walked into the lobby.  In addition to the usual cardboard donation boxes, I saw two tables (twice the size of card tables) about 30' apart.  These tables were not backed up to wall, out of the way like I'd seen at previous visits.  No, they were smack dab in the middle of the lobby and on top of each table was a sign in bold print that read 'DEBIT/CREDIT CARD DONATIONS'.  One table had a brother with a portable card swipping machine at the ready and the other table had 2 sisters each with their own card swipping machine at the ready.  It immediately reminded me of Jesus' reference to the money changers that he wound up throwing out of the temple.  My wife & I were really taken back by this!

Now that is truly messed up.

I think that's one of the first things people actually notice when they start pulling back the WT veil from over their eyes.

We noticed it in the mid-90s when we were in the process of planning our exit. It seemed like every other talk mentioned the need for donations. Then we started putting 2 and 2 together regarding how the process of building Kingdom Halls worked: congregation raises the money for the land, congregation raises money for 50% of the building expenses and borrows the other 50% from the Kingdom Hall Building Fund. The congregation pays "rent" to the WTS, in perpetuity, on a per capita basis and is required to repay the loan/mortgage at a modest rate of interest (which is loaned to them from DONATED money in the first place). In the end, the building is owned by the WTS, thanks to a cool trick that involves incorporating each congregation - which allows them to operate as a charitable organization in its own right, but with built in payments to the WTS (makes it sound like a franchise). Pretty neat little scam they have going... where else can anyone have people GIVE them money without any goods or services exchanged and then lend it back to them, with interest??

Hearing this modern tale of constant begging for money, it is hard to believe that back in the 1960s the only mention from the platform about contributions were that the witnesses NEVER asked for contributions.

Of course it all changed in the early 1970s when the Society needed money to overhaul the printing and typesetting procedures.

In answer to your question, yes, the WTS is having cash flow issues. If they weren't, they wouldn't be selling off branch offices worldwide and downsizing the rest. Is it enough to break them? Doubtful, but it is great to see that their blatant hypocrisy getting out of hand.

Donations I'm sure must be WAY down in this economy. 

Just curious, if you are comfortable saying so, what country was this?

If the USA, which state?

Was this a CA in the US??? Maybe a pilot program to guage reaction / success. Pretty weird. They are going downhill.

I am sure they are having issues with $$$..... how many are counted as members and still attend that silently object by not donating (wasting) money is the only thing we can do in protest.....and it does feel kinda good.

I used to regularly donate until about 2007-8 or so....now I have an extra 50$ a month for beer! :-)

What expenses....while they have much property and buildings, it takes money to keep them up, millions of dollars, cash.  They have to keep selling property to keep the cash flowing and dogging the rank and file to donate. 

1. Paying Elders and CO's hush money

Hey wait a minute! I'm owed some back pay!

This beautiful spirtual sister donated her land to the org because she lived next door with the deal that the KH would be constructed and she could live right next to it all the days of her life.  Well....After 17 years the brothers SOLD her land and built a hall much furthur away.  She was so disgusted that she changed states.  They lied to her.

"This beautiful spirtual sister donated her land to the org because she lived next door with the deal that the KH would be constructed and she could live right next to it all the days of her life. Well....After 17 years the brothers SOLD her land and built a hall much furthur away. She was so disgusted that she changed states..."

 Changed states???  Damn, I would have changed religions.... 

What expenses do they have??? :

The Worldwide Pedophile Defense Fund has to be one of the biggest expenses they have.

Ahhh, beggin' hard huh ?

ain't nothin' volunteer in this Org. pretty soon they will be passin' the money

plate around, that will open eyes quicker than the generation change.

Botzwana, I reckon that goes to show that you shouldn't make conditional donations to an organization you are unwilling to sue. Suing the local congregation would probably result in instant disfellowshipping, I expect.

Two faced liars.They say we don't pass the collection plates like other religions.We don't fleece the people etc etc.

We pass resolutions for money, we get way more money this way.Why are they selling off good recently reno bldgs in NY and bldging new ones.Just like any realtor it is a way of making big money.

Yes at a recent c.a. any surplus goes to the big ass in NY.I for one could never understand why it costs so much to hold a c.a. in our own hall when it costs less to hold it in a rented facility.

They ask us to donate for the upkeep,we paid for the hall.we hold meetings on sunday which we aready paid for.We paid for the supplies.we paid the utilities.When you consider what they charge for a c.a. it amounts to 75,000 per month or over 800,000 a year.and is higher depends how many attend.In our area in 3 years you can bldg a new hall.

B

Sir82: 

No problem.   Arizona, USA (our old stomping grounds).  My wife & I are here visiting family who are not JWs .  We're going to miss our scheduled C.A. in a couple of weeks due to other obligations +  some close friends were on the program.    So we decided to go.  What an eye opener! 

tresducu:

I wouldn't say this is a temporary thing or pilot program.   As I said I've noticed this call for $$$ via debit/credit card charges on a smaller scale for the last year or so.    If anything I think it is past the pilot stages.  Why?  The Sociey knows that the average John Doe publisher will put loose change (ones, fives maybe tens in the cardboard contribution boxes).  That is peanuts to the greedy Society.   

However, you make debit/credit card charges available to the friends & what do you get?  Donations of $ 75, $ 100, $ 500 and more at a pop!  The Society could give a rat's behind about causing more indebtedness to JW families during these difficult financial days!

I kid you not, when I walked into the lobby & saw these debit/credit card tables set up, it was like the sound of cash registers ringing in my head! 

What must the 'Master Of The Harvest' think now of those who he has entrusted with his belongings?  I venture to guess this taking advantage of the flock will be short lived. 

That is why I'm interested in knowing if others have observed the same at the circuit assemblies they have attended.

JWGB  Was this at the new assembly hall in Casa Grande?

Iam extremely and shocked and appalled by the increasing level of hypocrisy on the part of the WTS. I recall studying the bible to become a JW in the 90s. It was a PE Book or Live ForeEver Book or Paradise book, Red Color. In comparing JW religion and that of non JW religions, my instructor strongly castigated the Catholic church for passing around a plate to solicit donations.  Months later, an Awake! Magazine run an unflattering  article about  selected religious leaders and their wealth in the United States complete with full color pictures. I think it was about mega churches and TV Evangelists. OMG! Look now, the WTS is not even ashamed of practicing what it teaches.  Thank you JW Gone Bad for bring up this thread.  Its more relevant for the real.

Scott77