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God created all things. Does that mean he is worthy of respect?

    sabastious posted Mon, 08 Nov 2010 17:45:00 GMT(11/8/2010)

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    Revelation 4:11 - 11 “You are worthy, our Lord and God,
    to receive glory and honor and power,
    for you created all things,
    and by your will they were created
    and have their being.”

    According to the above scripture God is worthy of our worship and respect because he created us.

    I think this verse describes humans as objects. We, as objects, were created by God therefore we are HIS possession. Therefore as HIS possessions, he is worthy of our respect.

    I don't agree at all.

    I think all SENTIENT (keyword) beings have fundamental rights. One right being that respect is earned got dulled out by default in any situation.

    Of course God can do anything he wants because he is vastly more powerful than us.

    -Sab

    sabastious posted Mon, 08 Nov 2010 17:49:00 GMT(11/8/2010)

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    This argument is synonymous with:

    "You will obey me because I am your father."

    It doesn't matter if your father is a hypocrite or he abuses you severely you obey him because you are biologically connected.

    -Sab

    PSacramento posted Mon, 08 Nov 2010 18:05:00 GMT(11/8/2010)

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    Yeah, Luke Skywalker didn't agree either ;)

    Respect is something that some people give and others feel it has to be earned.

    I start everyone off at 100% respect, just by their virtue of being my "family" under God.

    How much of that respect they keep is up to them.

    As for God, yes, I give God and My Lord Jesus 100% respect for all they have done and do for us, but that is me.

    I think that if you are the kind of person that gives respect when it is earned then you need to evaluate what God has done and see if it deserves your respect.

    IF you believe that God created the universe ( via whatever process you choose to subscribe to) then you would be hard press NOT to give the Old Guy props, it is a wonderful creation.

    sabastious posted Mon, 08 Nov 2010 18:08:00 GMT(11/8/2010)

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    As for God, yes, I give God and My Lord Jesus 100% respect for all they have done and do for us, but that is me.

    So you have weighed his actions and feel he deserves respect. That goes against Rev 4:11.

    He is worthy by default. (according to the Bible).

    -Sab

    sabastious posted Mon, 08 Nov 2010 18:10:00 GMT(11/8/2010)

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    you would be hard press NOT to give the Old Guy props, it is a wonderful creation.

    Honoring his creation as magnificent is one thing, because it can be quantified.

    But just because he created something magnificent doesn't mean he's a nice guy deserving of love and respect, no?

    -Sab

    PSacramento posted Mon, 08 Nov 2010 18:22:00 GMT(11/8/2010)

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    So you have weighed his actions and feel he deserves respect. That goes against Rev 4:11.
    He is worthy by default. (according to the Bible).

    I am sure for some that is the case, but before I could believe in God I need to do more than to believe "by default".

    Honoring his creation as magnificent is one thing, because it can be quantified.
    But just because he created something magnificent doesn't mean he's a nice guy deserving of love and respect, no

    Respect comes in many forms, you can respect Bil Gates for his philanthropy and think him a dick for creating Microsoft, or vice-versa.

    You didn't mention what TYPE of respect so...

    But if you are asking if I respect God for being a "nice guy" then I guess that I do too, but for that I need to believe that God is a nice guy, which means I need to find out if he is.

    Notice that I said that I start everyone off at 100% respect because they are "family"? not because they are nice or respectful or whatnot.

    Whether they keep my respect is a different matter.

    M thetrueone posted Mon, 08 Nov 2010 18:26:00 GMT(11/8/2010)

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    Only if he proves that he's willing to protect and love us unconditionally, which as history shows he doesn't.

    Of course this doesn't stop men from placing themselves or relinquishing in this assumed authoritive power though. ( no names mentioned )

    Power is absolute

    sabastious posted Mon, 08 Nov 2010 19:09:00 GMT(11/8/2010)

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    Only if he proves that he's willing to protect and love us unconditionally

    This kind of thinking is considered heresy according to Rev 4:11 coupled with Luke 10: 26, 27. You are commanded to love God by default:

    26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?” 27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

    -Sab

    M Terry posted Mon, 08 Nov 2010 19:29:00 GMT(11/8/2010)

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    Let's put a different bracket around it and change perspective.

    Evolution is the survival of the most fit which is evidenced by the power to come out on top in spite of obstacles.

    Humanity immediately usurped the top dog position by using intelligence to decide a course of action.

    God hovered in the background impotently hurling threats and making mysterious promises.

    (God was determined to strike Adam and Eve dead if they disobeyed, yet, they lived on past 900 years after the event!)

    God acheived a rebuke and man achieved civilization.

    What mankind has achieved has not been miraculous. In the face of certain death humanity continues to make progress.

    Once people lived in mud huts and spent the entire day trying to kill and eat something and died relatively young from parasites, disease and misadventure.

    Today, we have technology for rapid travel, medicine, antibiotics, transplants, modern conveniences, education, internet, infrastructure and even the poorest of the population in free society has microwave ovens, satellite dishes and cellphones and color tv.

    God is always a problem.

    Each generation of parents creates a bugaboo horror story in the mind of impressionable children about invisible demons and hell and a Savior God who loves but will kill you deader than a beaver hat if you don't snap to attention when He enters the discussion.

    It is all a competition between our atavistic past and our rational present day enlightenment.

    How and why God lingers on is pretty much the appendix and tonsils of societal nonsense.

    We buy tons of bibles and twenty tons of books explaining it.

    We pray and get little more than a reason to explain to ourselves the disappointment which follows.

    We attend churches and give money to teachers who amass a very comfortable living who instruct us about Christ who lived in poverty.

    Humanity is on the top of the food chain, but, we are still scared of the Great White invisible Shark in heaven!

    God_Delusion posted Mon, 08 Nov 2010 19:40:00 GMT(11/8/2010)

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    Firstly, there is zero, I repeat, zero evidence that points to a supreme being having created living things. Therefore, the title of this thread needs to be reassessed.

    But, let's, for the fun of it, say that there actually was a "God", "Deity", or "Supreme Being" that created life. Should that being expect to receive dedicated respect? No.

    I was created by two human beings (I hope). One of them deserves my respect and love, whilst the other deserves to be locked up and tortured for the rest of their existence. Just because they created me doesn't give them the right to extract respect from me, their creation.

    Only harsh dictators that run tyrannical governments demand the respect your "God" would like.

    See a pattern developing here?

    AtheistsWeekly.com explains all.

    Carlos x

    sabastious posted Mon, 08 Nov 2010 19:45:00 GMT(11/8/2010)

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    Therefore, the title of this thread needs to be reassessed.

    I guess it should say IF God created all things.

    -Sab

    whereami posted Mon, 08 Nov 2010 19:50:00 GMT(11/8/2010)

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    Once again Terry you nailed it.

    whereami posted Mon, 08 Nov 2010 20:04:00 GMT(11/8/2010)

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    God Delusion thanks for posting that blog. Great info on there. Is that your's or someone that posts here?

    M thetrueone posted Mon, 08 Nov 2010 20:13:00 GMT(11/8/2010)

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    I guess it should say IF God created all things.

    Disregarding everything said about him in the bible or every word said about him by man entirely.

    I'd say he deserves some element of respect, as for all of his creations on earth including us,

    I could only see him getting a C- average, this may have been one of his first cracks at it so lets give a little

    benefit of doubt, just because he's omniscient doesn't mean he's perfect.

    I'm sure his other earths out in the universe are much more improved and revised than areas.

    Mind you I would like to thank him for fingers, for typing on a keyboard without them would really be a bitch.

    sabastious posted Mon, 08 Nov 2010 20:20:00 GMT(11/8/2010)

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    this may have been one of his first cracks at it so lets give a little benefit of doubt

    lol, nice.

    I love the prospect of an imperfect creator. I think about that a lot.

    -Sab

    PSacramento posted Mon, 08 Nov 2010 21:14:00 GMT(11/8/2010)

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    It is an interesting thought, an imperfect creator.

    Don't know if the notion of perfect or imperfect matters that much per say, I never relaly thought about it that much.

    I think that if a person looks around and sees "flaws" in nature and if a person thinks that God created the world by snapping his fingers and things came to be exactly as they are now, perhpas that person would be inclined to either see an imperfect creator or to see one that is perfect but has his reasons for making things imperfect ( the matrix complex as I call it).

    Interesting indeed.

    simon17 posted Mon, 08 Nov 2010 22:23:00 GMT(11/8/2010)

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    I would say, yes, if God created all things, he is worthy of respect.

    Any creator of something impressive should be respected for his skills. There have been some geniuses of music/art/film/industry/inventions etc that created some brilliant things and were otherwise deplorable human beings. That doesn't take away from the respect I impart to them for their ability to create.

    Its not a fair analogy to talk about regular parents because they didn't CREATE anything by creating a baby. They had sex. End of story. They could be completely without any knowledge, appreciation, understanding or plan when their act of "creation" happened. They might not even remember it. If a God created life, obviously it was somethign quite different.

    Second, if God was the creator, I think you should owe it to him to hear his admonition on how his creation best works. If the Bible was his word, it is worthwhile to consider it. I think that is only fair and respectful on one who created you.

    But lastly, after giving due consideration, the behavior of that creator will determine if your respect for his talent will transcend into respect as a ruler, as a being, and as a moral compass.

    So I guess my issues overall are twofold: #1: I don't believe God exists and see no logical or factual evidence to support it. #2: if the Bible is God's message to us, then I find it hypocritical, immoral, and cruel of the creator to act the way he has, and I would then conclude that my respect would stop at his physical abilities and power.

    WTWizard posted Tue, 09 Nov 2010 16:25:00 GMT(11/9/2010)

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    If God created all things so they could all suffer, he is not worthy of anything more than a bad review. It does me no good that this Almighty Lowlife Scumbag made me if he doesn't allow me to fulfill my biological duty because he wants me all to his Fat Self or the witlesses to actually take possession of me, like a piece of property. Growing old and dying celibate so that Almighty Lowlife Scumbag can suck me dry or so the witless dingbats that dragged me into the cancer the first time can force me back in the second time ought to be such an embarrassment to that Almighty Lowlife Scumbag that he never gets back on his feet again. And no, I am not giving that Almighty Lowlife Scumbag anything but slaps and kicks in the face.

    M THE GLADIATOR posted Tue, 09 Nov 2010 16:38:00 GMT(11/9/2010)

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    If God created all things then he would be worthy of acknowledgement. Respect is another matter. In between a risky birth and certain death, humans have not had an easy ride on this hostile planet.

    More day to day, hands on help from God and his hosts of angels would earn my respect.

    brotherdan posted Tue, 09 Nov 2010 16:41:00 GMT(11/9/2010)

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    Yes, he is worthy of respect. WE are the ones that rejected Him. I won't comment further on this thread because it is just a forum to be disrespectful to God.

    I don't blame you guys for your feelings. I actually blame the WT. They are the ones that destroyed your faith and helped you get to this point where you know neither God nor who he is. It's pitiful, really.

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