Witnessing- Jehovah Witness Gets Saved

Hi all,

Was looking for something else but ran into this-great vid IMHO :)

Witnessing- Jehovah Witness Gets Saved

See what you think.

Blessings,

Stephen

What's so great about it?  One idiot that believes in hell talking to another idiot that doesn't know what the hell she believes.

Think About It

Tragic! The blind leading the bind 

I agree with Think About It just an idiot at the flea market talking to an obvious stooge. If this were a "real" witness they would not respond the way this lady does. Although I am in no way saying that "real" witness logic trumps all... they are just way more resilient then this smiley happy woman who is learning that all she ever knew was a lie.

He wants to convince her that death itself is not enough punishment and that God wants her to be burnt in hell forever. It makes no sense. It never will. A person has around 70 years or so (if they're lucky) to spend on earth enduring hardship after hardship. This guy in the video believes that if you make a few mistakes during that short time the consequence is that you are tortured in hell forever.

Ridiculous. Logically, if this were the case the 70 years that the person spent on earth would soon be matched by the torture of hell and if what he's saying is really true it would be doubled, tripled, ect. until the 70 years the person spent on earth seems so incredibly tiny that the torture is no longer relevant to that life. Hell fire forever? Eventually you'd be a million years old still thinking about those 70 years or so it would be such a small fraction that the punishment would not make sense.

If anybody really believes in hell on this forum I'd like for them to explain it to me. Starting with the question, "If someone doesn't believe in hell, how can they be justifily punished by hell?"

Welcome Nephilim!

If anybody really believes in hell on this forum I'd like for them to explain it to me. Starting with the question, "If someone doesn't believe in hell, how can they be justifily punished by hell?"

OK, let's suppose a person doesn't believe in the laws of the land or the judicial/punitive system. That is fine until they transgress the law. Before too long they are going to find themselves having fallen fowl of the law and in jail.

Most people have little problem with most of the law Exodus 20 and would likely admit to breaking much or all of it Matthew 5

Ignorance of the law is no defence. We will get our day in court and see the judge Romans 2:14-16

Much better to get a good attorney arranged before hand 1 Timothy 2:5, one who has paid all the fines in advance John 1:29

The only prerequisite is to get to know Him before your day in court, it is no good leaving it till then Hebrews 9:27 Matthew 7:23 Matthew 25:41

Blessings,

Stephen

Neph, trying to explain literary devices to a Literalist is worth a try but until they can admit a few consessions its of little service.

Use a little Raid on those Scorpions flying out of the Abyss  

'Do a little good each day'

I think it would be far more impressive to see someone 'saved' from Christianity in general.

But that's just me.

Jeff

Ignorance of the law is no defence.

Stephen, what's your take on the billions and billions of Chinese and Indians both alive and dead?

Underground Church in China excerpt from Finger of God Doc

I expect your question is to the fate of those who haven't heard the gospel and the name of Jesus? Here's one or two verses on the matter.

1 Peter 3:18-20 (New International Version)

Romans 1:20 (New International Version)

Its kind of like talking to a Pioneer on steriods.

The Religious......nothing else seems to factor in 

Chalam,

Don't be put off that a lot of our fellow x-jw's don't have much tolerance for faith or religion. That's part of the reason I hate this religion so much. Maybe this "works based" religion attracts people that find it hard to have faith in the first place. Once the borg chews them up it just leaves them even more cynical and jaded. Very few X-JW's ever make it back to a real relationship with God and accepting Christ. It's like the JW's have poisioned then against anything besides the borg. No offense to anyone here, I love you all. But just want Chalam to know it's a long hard road back that many just chose not to take and no need for either side to be offended.

Or maybe we are the kind of people who are not easily impressed with theological double-think

Well I am watching again and I still think it is pretty cool! Here's some interesting things I noted

• The JW did not like her sin of fornication being mentioned on camera. Even if she did believe it had been forgiven, she was certainly concerned with the shame of most likely other JWs knowing about he sin. This is totally at odds with my the Christian experience Romans 8:1
• As she hears the gospel she is obviously touched, she starts nodding, the defensive body language goes (arms folded) and she move the sunglasses off her eyes and wipes away the tears.
• At 6:06 she makes an interesting gesture.
• As the dude is talking about being born again, the usual JW debate is long gone.
• At 10:15 the dudes aide brings the passage in Matthew 10 that was used in the debate over Hell only minutes earlier. He reads it out and without prompting she says "I believe it" and nods.

For me, the gospel was preached boldly and with power, not from the dude but the work of the Spirit 1 Thessalonians 1:5

I think of these verses when I see her reaction Acts 2:37-38

Thanks for your kind words Brocephus :) No offence taken here, I keep these in mind Proverbs 17:9 Proverbs 19:11 

Blessings,

Stephen

Very few X-JW's ever make it back to a real relationship with God and accepting Christ. It's like the JW's have poisioned then against anything

This is an unfare generalization and demeaning.

I have done plenty of research upon leaving the JW's and everyone else I know that has exited has too.  I would have gladly embraced christianity if I could find one thing that shows the Bible is from God.

Terry has a thread about it, just one little bit of proof, that's all we ask.

Simply relying on faith is no different then squeezing your eyes shut, sticking your fingers in yours ears and repeating I believe I believe I believe...........

I want to belive their is an omnipotent being that has everything under control and will ultimately right every wrong.  You have no idea how much I want to believe that.

But I see no evidence whatsoever.

And if you have evidence then you need to post it on Terrys thread so we all can see it and become believers too.

Now THAT'S a video! Or a reasonable facsimile thereof. 

Saint Martin the Jaded

Chalam,

Thank you for a good answer. Also, thank you for sharing the video - I have heard of this but never thought I would actually see it. It is definitely different than what I thought it would look like. Back when I was studying Chinese I would attend the Chinese congregations and they were so wonderful. 1 in 5 persons on this planet are Chinese therefore they represent a respectful amount of the population which is why I appreciate Mad Sweeney's comment.

Brocephus,

I would use the word "lost" first before cynical and jaded. You have to realize that at one point in time these people said "I give up". That's what I did at least. "I give up". "I'm wrong". This leads to the natural questioning of life. "What else am I so sure about that I COULD be wrong about?" It puts you on the defense. It doesn't have to mess you up.

It is true, however, I wasn't really allowed to ask too many mind expanding questions for a good portion of my life. Now I'd like to spend some time asking questions (not Glenn Beck style, I don't even own a chalk board).

Going back to the hell fire thing I am still getting stuck (just wait until I start asking somebody to explain the Trinity to me)... Okay so you mentioned that if a person commits a crime in a land that they don't know the law of they still have to face the penalty. I agree this is true. Is it just? I can't say so entirely, it depends on the crime. Some laws are completely wacky.

Furthermore, this is just an analogy for us floating around earth taking in knowledge and trying to figure out what laws are important and which ones are not important. I prefer (note I said prefer) to believe that if there was a God that he would realize that things in the world are so confusing today with so many different religions, and in each religion a sub-division of religion... But focusing even more so from just a Christian point of view there are even a lot of different versions of the Bible itself which is not cool.

If God put the Bible as his word on earth then there should be just one version with a fairly obvious depiction of what we should and shouldn't be doing. I would say that it's God's responsibility to maintain that. Perhaps though the persons who purposely change the writings of God's word for whatever reason bear the hugely massive weight of responsibility for that confusion. BUT I AM GETTING SO WAY OFF TOPIC. 

Some Christians believe in Hell. Other Christians who seem to be reading the same book don't believe in Hell. Does it really come down to the symantics? Why do all these important things have leeway for interpretation. Any good lawyer knows how to bend the law to make it work for him/her. I say this, yet I'm not saying this because I fear hell and want to symantically get my way out of it.

Point being - we are simple people and life is very, very confusing at times. With that particular analogy I see a foreigner in court facing a crime that he was not aware of and I'm the judge... And I ask the foreigner "did you know about our obscure law?". He just looks at me because he doesn't speak the same language... and I ask for a translator and they get me one... (I just saw this happen in traffic school btw)... Anyhow, I can tell the person's heart was in the right place and meant no harm. What am I going to think is justice? I sure as hell (hahaha) am going to give him a second chance after he knows what's right and good. 

That's justice to me, I think.

• The JW did not like her sin of fornication being mentioned on camera. Even if she did believe it had been forgiven, she was certainly concerned with the shame of most likely other JWs knowing about he sin. This is totally at odds with my the Christian experience Romans 8:1
• As she hears the gospel she is obviously touched, she starts nodding, the defensive body language goes (arms folded) and she move the sunglasses off her eyes and wipes away the tears.
• At 6:06 she makes an interesting gesture.
• As the dude is talking about being born again, the usual JW debate is long gone.
• At 10:15 the dudes aide brings the passage in Matthew 10 that was used in the debate over Hell only minutes earlier. He reads it out and without prompting she says "I believe it" and nods.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZfK8ulOIt0

Think About It

Thanks for the post Nephilim. I will try and answer some of your questions.

Going back to the hell fire thing I am still getting stuck (just wait until I start asking somebody to explain the Trinity to me)... Okay so you mentioned that if a person commits a crime in a land that they don't know the law of they still have to face the penalty. I agree this is true. Is it just? I can't say so entirely, it depends on the crime. Some laws are completely wacky.

It is clear that any JW (or ex) will likely have some difficulty with understanding the second death or the plurality of "one God". That does not mean that it is any easier to understand other's interpretations either, including the WT! Sure, their reasoning might look plausible but for the average person who has just read the bible for themselves are likely to find the WT at odds with what is written on the page. That is why the WT want to keep you away from reading the bible on its own i.e. without their interpretation. Their reasoning is one cannot understand the bible without their "help". However, I just think that what the WT preach and the message of the bible are totally at odds with each other.

Furthermore, this is just an analogy for us floating around earth taking in knowledge and trying to figure out what laws are important and which ones are not important. I prefer (note I said prefer) to believe that if there was a God that he would realize that things in the world are so confusing today with so many different religions, and in each religion a sub-division of religion... But focusing even more so from just a Christian point of view there are even a lot of different versions of the Bible itself which is not cool.

OK, for the born again Christian, no laws are important! Romans 8 Galatians 3

However, if you want to know what sin is (that is what the law is for) then check out the ten commandments Exodus 20

If you are like the dude who claimed to have kept all the commandments Matthew 19:19-21 then you better check out what Jesus had to say about the commandments Matthew 5

The is one message in the bible, God is not double minded. Sure, trying to understand the fullness of some of the details can be pretty hard. However, the message itself is nice and simple, even children can grasp it Mark 10:14

God is holy, man is sinful. God loves man and sent His son to die for us all so that whoever believes in Jesus might be reconciled to God. That is not through our own merit or "works" but by accepting the free gift of Jesus who has paid our 'fines' and taken our punishment in advance. Accept this gift and you get another free gift! The Holy Spirit comes to live within the believer and help us live, not by rules but by His guidance.

Granted, there are a plethora of false gospels and false messages, twisted, corrupt and fake to the core. You need to look carefully, most fakes look like the real thing. However, test them out and you will see they don't live up to expectations. Beneath the thin veneer they clearly aren't the read deal.

If God put the Bible as his word on earth then there should be just one version with a fairly obvious depiction of what we should and shouldn't be doing. I would say that it's God's responsibility to maintain that. Perhaps though the persons who purposely change the writings of God's word for whatever reason bear the hugely massive weight of responsibility for that confusion. BUT I AM GETTING SO WAY OFF TOPIC.

I would say there is one person Hebrews 1:1-3 , one vision Ephesians 2:15 Ephesians 5:23 Ephesians 1:22-23

Sure, we still have some issues, see about half way through this chapter 1 Corinthians 12

Some Christians believe in Hell. Other Christians who seem to be reading the same book don't believe in Hell. Does it really come down to the symantics? Why do all these important things have leeway for interpretation. Any good lawyer knows how to bend the law to make it work for him/her. I say this, yet I'm not saying this because I fear hell and want to symantically get my way out of it.

Well just read the book and ask God, He wrote the thing! Unless the Holy Spirit is your guide, it might as well be in Chinese John 14:26 1 Corinthians 2:14 1 John 2:27

Point being - we are simple people and life is very, very confusing at times. With that particular analogy I see a foreigner in court facing a crime that he was not aware of and I'm the judge... And I ask the foreigner "did you know about our obscure law?". He just looks at me because he doesn't speak the same language... and I ask for a translator and they get me one... (I just saw this happen in traffic school btw)... Anyhow, I can tell the person's heart was in the right place and meant no harm. What am I going to think is justice? I sure as hell (hahaha) am going to give him a second chance after he knows what's right and good. 

That's justice to me, I think.

You understand the ten commandments right? Most people all over the world wouldn't argue with the majority of them, even atheists.

Blessings,

Stephen

Stephen,

I have bitten my tongue approximately 2939 times over your posts. ;)

I believe in the scripture that says God is love. I will never believe in a God that burns people in hellfire. I will never believe in ANY religion that is so dogmatic and arrogant as to believe it is the only salvation and billions of other people are not acceptable to God. Christianity is a new religion. Most of its tenets already existed before Christ was born. This practice of trying to force people to be saved that seems to be so prevalent among Born Again Christians is an anathema to me.

I understand your need to preach what you feel to be the Truth at every turn. It's very JW-like of you, of course, but I'm coming to see that it is just a characteristic of any "Christian". It might be interesting to get to know you without the constant repetition of scripture used in judgement to show how wrong people are in EVERY post as if it is a duty to save the unwashed heathen at every turn... I'm at the point that when I see your name, most of the time I don't open the discussion or I just ignore your posts - which I have a feeling is not your purpose in being here.

Sigh. I tried to write this nicely and I'm afraid it come over as b**chy, which I don't mean or feel.

Hello Georgiegirl,

No need to bite you tongue, just have a nice, good mannered yet open discussion :)

I believe in the scripture that says God is love.

Me too :)

1 John 4:8 (New International Version)

I will never believe in a God that burns people in hellfire.

Matthew 25:41 (New International Version)

Jude 1:7 (New International Version)