If Spike & Reniaa are trolls, could that be a good thing?

perhaps it's just a reaction to other versions of fresh, thought-provoking, even wholesome perspectives.  Let's see if this helps any of us in articulating our positions and understanding one another and ourselves better.

Ok with me.

Just so they don't eat too much.

Jeff

can anyone tell me where the myth of trolls came from?

i know they were supposed to live under bridges and jump out at people as they walked over

i think its a british myth thing... anyone know?

( yes this is called hyjacking a thread) hahahahaha

Come on in.

Billygoats gruff innit, highdose?

this Topic is in response to http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/179812/6/Remember-nobody-can-REALLY-love-you-unless-they-know-and-love-Jehovah-first, for anyone else who cares to comment.

Let's see if this helps any of us in articulating our positions and understanding one another and ourselves better.

I've said before, years ago in fact, and I'll say again.  I think having pro-JW viewpoints is a good thing for a discussion board like this.

For anyone lurking, having doubts and seeing Witnesses unable to defend certain teachings, it can only help.  Years ago there was a poster by the name of You_Know who argued Biblical scripture endlessly.  He never allowed himself to realize how badly he was coming off and how badly he was defending the Witnesses. 

I'm married to someone who was affected by what she read on this board.  She had doubts and reading the reality of how thin and how wrong many JW teachings did have an impact on her leaving.  For that, I'm grateful.

Chris

I guess it is good at reminding us of what we left, and showing lurkers what they are leaving.  :)

Without wishing to seem rude (and I'm sincere in asking this question), is English your first language, Spike?

big tex,

: Years ago there was a poster by the name of You_Know who argued Biblical scripture endlessly.  He never allowed himself to realize how badly he was coming off and how badly he was defending the Witnesses. 

Ah yes.  Robert King.  He now has his own website and his own pet cult.  I think he calls himself the "Watchman" or something like that.  For four straight years in a row, he predicted Armageddon in the fall of the following year.  He wasn't even smart enough to predict Armageddon  8-9 years in advance (like the WTS does) so he could milk the "prophecy" for all it was worth before it inevitably flopped!

He was very fun to play with!  I miss him.

Farkel

Yes, yes. E-Watchman is his chosen moniker these days. He has written a few books too I think. He sincerely believes that he is God's annointed one too, or something like that. He wrote endless essays about how scripture was being fullfilled. The big A was a crucial part of that for this nut job.

He is a disgruntled elder, disfellowshipped now. Pretty sad case really.

He has a small following.

I agree with the general assessment that Jw apologists just make those occasional Jw thinkers who wander in aware of how leaky are the general arguments they present. It 's a good thing. Perhaps the best thing. Nothing shows the cult to be what it is better than a devotee with no ability to see outside a little self-imposed delusion.

Jeff  

Re: Origin of 'trolls' - it is Norse legend.

Here's Wiki's take on that subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll

Jeff

perhaps it's just a reaction to other versions of fresh, thought-provoking, even wholesome perspectives.

I've seen no evidence of any fresh, thought-provoking, wholesome, or even articulate perspectives from you, Reniaa, or trolls. If you're referring to the WTS crap you parrot here, believe me, we've heard it all before, and it's stale, braindead cult trash. If YOU yourself have an original opinion, Spike, one that does not originate from the WTS, I'd really like to hear it.

Let's see if this helps any of us in articulating our positions and understanding one another and ourselves better.

Nope. Doesn't help a bit.

I like to think/believe..... that yall are just not ready fully admit the WTS isn't 'appointed' but at the same time yall know somethings are 'off' within the WTS.

So in that case I see yall's being here as a good thing and in time when you are able to let go you will.

I do wish that deeper discussions would happen more often with amongst us posters versus random accussations, denials, over generalizations and broad interpretations being applied limitedly.

My motto tends to be 'meet in the middle' or 'agree to disagree'.

I don't think Reniaa and Spike are trolls.  (I don't even think Fred Hall was a troll.)

Sometimes I wonder though if they realize the history behind JW discussion and debate on the internet.  I wonder if they realize how many extremely knowledgable JW's have gone before them and found that some JW beliefs are indefensible.

Jan Haugland was a enthusiastic defender of JW's at one time.  So was Jay Hess.  So was Greg Stafford.  

What do JW defenders today who (Meaning no offense to anyone) often demonstrate only a cursorial understanding of JW beliefs think they will accomplish that these men could not?

TD: What do JW defenders today who (Meaning no offense to anyone) often demonstrate only a cursorial understanding of JW beliefs think they will accomplish that these men could not?

The most recent JW apologist on this site that debated dub beliefs with some competence was ThirdWitness. I didn't find this site till '06, but did extensive reading in the archives. You're right -- Reniaa and Spike don't hold a candle to the many dub defenders who actually did some research and thought about their beliefs before posting here.

TD,

Yep.  I used to debate Stafford all the time.

:Jan Haugland was a enthusiastic defender of JW's at one time.

Jan was exceptional.  In fact, he was the one who inspired me to study formal logic that many years ago.  Like Norm Hovland and Kent Steinhaug (whom we used to call "The Three Vikings"), Jan became a good ally and friend.  He ended up getting a Master's Degree in Bergen, Norway on Religious History/Studies.  He also wrote a book on Visual Basic and sent me a pre-publication copy.

His article on whether JWs have a gospel of love or a gospel of hate is a masterpiece.

I miss his contributions.

Farkel

I guess it is good at reminding us of what we left, and showing lurkers what they are leaving. 

Another important thing it does is help us realize how far we have come that we can see right through the WT-induced brain-freeze

perhaps it's just a reaction to other versions of fresh, thought-provoking, even wholesome perspectives. 

Just so we 'understand each other', let me 'articulate' this: There is NOTHING though-provoking about the WT's teachings. Quite the opposite, it's mind- numbing. Your choice of words is somewhat ironic, considering that you and Reniaa (barf!) both support and defend an organization that discourage people from thinking for themselves. And there is NOTHING wholesome about ever changing doctrines that, at times, can put people's lives at risk for no good reason. The rest of the time, those doctrines only serve to make people miserable and tear families appart.

The only 'fresh perspective' you bring to this board, as mentioned before, is to remind us how fortunate we are to have opened our eyes and minds and left that horrible place. Thanks for that, I guess...

His article on whether JWs have a gospel of love or a gospel of hate is a masterpiece.

Hi Farkel,

Where would I find the article mentioned above?

Thanks

y