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what do you think about greg stafford?

    hamilcarr what do you think about greg stafford? posted Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:20:00 GMT (2/12/2008) edit




    Post 16 of 1924
    Since 1/16/2008

    It seems Greg Stafford has disassociated himself from the Watchtower Society?

    Do you think his new attempt to reform the society - he claims that 'Christian Witnesses of Jah' are Jehovah's Witnesses - stands a chance to spur on changes or is he just 'forging' another split group that will fade out quickly?

    Awakened07 Re: what do you think about greg stafford? posted Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:30:00 GMT (2/12/2008) edit




    Post 717 of 1087
    Since 8/1/2007

    I don't know the man, but seeing as he tries to reform JWs, it is clear that he has bought into what he has been taught by them, although not all of it.

    All sects, denominations, and religions are like branches and twigs on an ever growing tree (like some other process I know of). I'm not convinced neither God nor Truth is at the stem or root of that tree unfortunately. Greg's "new religion" will be an insignificant twig on a side branch way out on one side of that tree - just like the original JWs before it. 

    BurnTheShips Re: what do you think about greg stafford? posted Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:40:00 GMT (2/12/2008) edit


    United States

    Post 1720 of 16671
    Since 8/28/2006

    I don't think Greg Stafford has enough influence to do anything other than make a small dent. A few may hear what he has to say and leave but I think that is it. As for his own split group, I don't think it will go anywhere.

    Burn

    Honesty Re: what do you think about greg stafford? posted Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:02:00 GMT (2/12/2008) edit


    United States Tennessee

    Post 7445 of 8509
    Since 1/12/2005
    He clings to the apostate doctrines taught to Jehovah's Witnesses by the demonised Governing Body.
    prophecor Re: what do you think about greg stafford? posted Tue, 12 Feb 2008 20:30:00 GMT (2/12/2008) edit


    United States Pennsylvania

    Post 5027 of 5051
    Since 12/4/2003

     

     

    Greg, who?

    hamilcarr Re: what do you think about greg stafford? posted Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:51:00 GMT (2/12/2008) edit




    Post 17 of 1924
    Since 1/16/2008
    He clings to the apostate doctrines taught to Jehovah's Witnesses by the demonised Governing Body.

    Are you referring to the rejection of deity of Christ and the use of God's name as revealed in OT manuscripts? I think it would be very embarrassing for him to change his mind after writing JW Defended and debating with Dr. White on these matters. Besides, the GB have no full control over these doctrines - that would give them too much honor - anti-trinitarianism has remained an alternative to mainstream christianity until the fourth century.

    hamilcarr Re: what do you think about greg stafford? posted Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:57:00 GMT (2/12/2008) edit




    Post 18 of 1924
    Since 1/16/2008
    Greg, who?
    I don't know what his status is in the States, but in Europe he's totally unknown (at least, among JWs).
    ninja Re: what do you think about greg stafford? posted Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:01:00 GMT (2/12/2008) edit


    United Kingdom Scotland, Glasgow

    Post 2780 of 5857
    Since 10/5/2006
    hey hamill...a few of the JW's here in Scotland are well aware of him and the JW's defended book
    hamilcarr Re: what do you think about greg stafford? posted Tue, 12 Feb 2008 22:15:00 GMT (2/12/2008) edit




    Post 19 of 1924
    Since 1/16/2008

    hey ninja, well I should have said continental Europe

    how do these JWs react to the latest developments? maybe a strange question, do you think it is possible JW Defended is to become forbidden literature because of Stafford's independent mind? 

    Deputy Dog Re: Re: what do you think about greg stafford? posted Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:02:00 GMT (2/13/2008) edit




    Post 1511 of 4006
    Since 4/19/2003

    hamilcarr

    I think it would be very embarrassing for him to change his mind after writing JW Defended and debating with Dr. White on these matters.

    How big of a role do you think the debate with James White played?

    It was a while back, and I remember this being discussed on the Dividing Line.  I can't believe it's taken this long.

    BurnTheShips Re: Re: what do you think about greg stafford? posted Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:26:00 GMT (2/13/2008) edit


    United States

    Post 1747 of 16671
    Since 8/28/2006
    hey hamill...a few of the JW's here in Scotland are well aware of him and the JW's defended book
    Scotland is Europe? ;-)
     
    Stafford adds intellectual clothing to basic JW theology. Something even the GB is not capable of (anymore).
     
    Burn
    Dagney Re: what do you think about greg stafford? posted Wed, 13 Feb 2008 18:17:00 GMT (2/13/2008) edit


    United States California

    Post 858 of 2787
    Since 8/14/2006

    I don't think most USA JW's are aware of him, unless you are on the internet.

    I think it's great he changed his mind.  What's wrong with changing your mind on what you believe?

    Dead Man Joaquin Re: what do you think about greg stafford? posted Wed, 13 Feb 2008 18:41:00 GMT (2/13/2008) edit




    Post 65 of 80
    Since 9/5/2007
    It's sad the WT has alienated the last truly capable scholar they had. The GB doesn't even make a serious attempt at apologeticism anymore. He was the only chance they had left to be taken seriously. Oh well... it was only a matter of time.
    hamilcarr Re: what do you think about greg stafford? posted Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:05:00 GMT (2/13/2008) edit




    Post 20 of 1924
    Since 1/16/2008
    How big of a role do you think the debate with James White played?
    I think it played a role in the confined community of apolegists. James White put a small part of the debate on his YouTube account (4000 views). I think he has some good standing among 'thinking christians', he's apparently among the few JW's taken seriously.  
    hamilcarr Re: what do you think about greg stafford? posted Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:10:00 GMT (2/13/2008) edit




    Post 21 of 1924
    Since 1/16/2008
    Scotland is Europe? ;-)
    I also thought Europe stopped at Hadrian's wall :-)))
    thepackage Re: what do you think about greg stafford? posted Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:47:00 GMT (2/13/2008) edit


    United States

    Post 195 of 279
    Since 8/17/2005
    greg's a nice guy, very smart, and fun. I don't agree with him on many things. he used to hang out with a buddy of mine and they came down my house a few times for a couple of beers. some of his family went to the same KH i used to go to.
    iloowy Re: what do you think about greg stafford? posted Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:28:00 GMT (9/20/2008) edit




    Post 64 of 191
    Since 5/23/2008
    Greg has launched a redesigned web page at

    http://elihubooks.com

    His third edition of Jehovah's Witnesses Defended

    is due to be published in October 2008.

    Has anyone heard of developments in his

    standing with the WT. Is he in or out?

    yknot Re: what do you think about greg stafford? posted Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:43:00 GMT (9/20/2008) edit


    Syrian Arab Republic

    Post 2694 of 7956
    Since 8/24/2007

    I think each person who wakes up and admits to themselves they don't believe the WTS...... deals with it in their own way.

    This is his current way of dealing with the loss of faith. His way of trying to make sense of everything.

    Dagney Re: what do you think about greg stafford? posted Sat, 20 Sep 2008 04:58:00 GMT (9/20/2008) edit


    United States California

    Post 1601 of 2787
    Since 8/14/2006

    From what I understand he is busy with his personal life and the work he was doing on the website. 

    He's a very nice, intelligent guy trying to figure out his faith.  As far as I know, and I would probably would hear about it, there has been no judicial action as of yet. 

    Uzzah Re: what do you think about greg stafford? posted Sat, 20 Sep 2008 06:03:00 GMT (9/20/2008) edit


    Johnston Atoll (U.S.)

    Post 1907 of 2107
    Since 1/22/2003

    He like many are still trying to figure out what they believe.  It is a shame he is trying to attract so many to follow after him.

    Just like Russell, Rutherford, Ghandi, and so many others Greg is still searching and the pawns follow him like sheep.  he is a man with doubts, uncertainties and best guesses.  I don't wish him any ill will but people need to realize he is searching just like they are with no solid answers.

    People just need to do what they feel they should.  Beyond that is simply human conjecture.

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