Critical Times Hard to deal with??

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    M BluesBrother posted Tue, 03 Jul 2007 16:42:00 GMT(7/3/2007)

    Post 3784 of 8488
    Joined 10/29/2001

    For many decades the Watchtower has hammered home the message of 2 Timothy 3.1 - 7

    But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. 6 For from these arise those men who slyly work their way into households and lead as their captives weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, 7 always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.

    We have been taught that the people of this generation are different to people in the past, that Satan has influenced them to be all the things described above, wheres people of the past were hard working, God fearing decent folk who deserved a resurrection in the New World. We joined in this of course and taught it to others. How many of us remember standing on countless doorsteps with Bible or WT literature in hand reading to the householder and eliciting their normal response that they "Do not know what the world is coming to, these days"

    The point to consider though surely must be , "Is that true? "

    In reality it is impossible to quantify some of the things because situations have changed so much. People's perception of morality has changed. The truth is IMHO that people behave according to the morality of their day. In times past it may have been expected that a girl would be a virgin on her wedding night , so most of them were (probably) Can you really blame people for behaving differently today - if their grandmothers had lived today they would have behaved differently too. It is not that people are intrinsically different , they just live in different times People are just people. I recall coming to that conclusion before leaving the dubs.

    The important question is not whether the world is in the condition that we might want it to be. The relevant point is whether or not the world is significantly worse than it has been in the past.

    Some will turn to the acceptance of sex and "alternative lifestyles" in entertainment as evidence of corruption - others see it as a liberation . You must decide for yourself .

    Consider some of the social practices of the past . Slavery and slave trading , child labour . The treatment of women as second class citizens with no right to vote,. the poverty that was deliberately enforced by a system that kept everyone in their place . The subjugation of large parts of the world into the British Empire . Few people in the past saw anything wrong with these practises, although they were supposedly the "better people" who were not affected by "Satan having cast down to Earth" in 1918, or 1919 or whenever.

    On the part of the WTS ,and the individual Witness, there is a total blanking out of the well known facts of history. It does not suit their purpose and so they ignore it . We used to watch TV and read about the horrors and social evils that have been perpetrated on mankind in the past - and somehow always think that the subject was an exception to the rule, whereas in fact it was the rule - the everyday life for our forebears who lived in less enlightened times.

    Why did we apply such dissonance? I guess we did not want to harbour "doubts".. In reality this teaching of the WTS is a whingers charter. It panders to the moaners, the grumblers and revilers who see everything as negative , apart from themselves. "Yes.. they say, that is exactly how I see the world "- but it is not true.

    Consider the great changes in social justice in the Western world, I contend that people of this generation have been helped to be more aware of others. The response to Charity Appeals is just one example, no doubt you can think of others .

    There is plenty of real information on the net for those who really want to know what the past was like . No doubt a lot of people did manage peaceable honorable lives, but the links below show that the golden years before 1914 were not always so great and it was people that made the times what they were.

    http://www.victorianweb.org/history/crime1.html

    http://www.angelfire.com/ok/hoddies/Childlab.html

    http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/C/countryhouse/edwardianlife/sex.html

    WTWizard posted Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:20:00 GMT(7/3/2007)

    Post 465 of 14945
    Joined 5/10/2007

    Critical times hard to deal with have been here once before. And those were worse times than now: The Dark Ages. People had no freedom to know what was truth, and if they sought the truth, they were burned at the stake. Knowledge was dictated by the church, and was usually wrong. The result was the few in power that exploited the masses. Disease, poverty, crime, and wars were the result. People were always in superstitious fear: many of our common superstitions actually originated in the Dark Ages, along with many "old wives tales".

    Now, imagine the Watchtower Society finally getting its way. Knowledge would once again be dictated by the few, and usually wrong. Dissenters would be stoned to death. The Watchtower leaders would dominate the masses, leading to poverty and disease. Crime would be worse than even the worst neighborhoods of today. There would be superstitions that would make the ladder one look weak: Smurfs, music, TV, yard sales, Tupperware, etc. leading to demon possession, and even having people possessed by demons for such as wondering if the organization is a bit wrong in something. And they might have to acknowledge life on other planets: once they run out of people on Earth, they would have to spread the misery onto other planets.

    The New Dark Ages could spread to other planets where no ruler class has ever risen, nor would ever. You might find planets where consciousness broke out in nearly everyone at once, precluding a ruler class (and the few that tried would be laughed out of business). Those civilizations would have been around for billions of years, having solved such problems--only to have our Watchtower Society force their bulls*** on them now. Other planets could have been through a similar scam, or even the exact same one, only to rid themselves of it only to have our Craptower Society move in with force. No one escapes this time. And this time, they have the technology to spy into the most remote areas, precluding any renaissance.

    Yes, we do have some critical times hard to deal with upon us now. However, compared to the Dark Ages, this is nothing. And, if the Craptower gets its way, things will certainly get even worse. And this time, there will be no end short of annihilation of all conscious life on Earth. And who knows how far this bulls*** will spread this time. If we are to avoid critical times really hard to deal with, the Watchtower Society will have to come down.

    M Warlock posted Tue, 03 Jul 2007 17:55:00 GMT(7/3/2007)

    Post 2936 of 4591
    Joined 5/16/2006

    Blues,

    My problem with this scripture is that it is directed to the congregation, not the world.

    Warlock

    M Marcel posted Tue, 03 Jul 2007 22:13:00 GMT(7/3/2007)

    Post 171 of 240
    Joined 1/29/2007

    i believe 2 Timothy 3.1 - 7 could be used in ANY time and on ANY society ever and still being succesful.
    in many many points our todays society is way better than ones in the past.

    death penalty is not common anymore.
    europe is way more united than ever before.
    united nations.
    no witch burnings.
    way better medical treatment in large portions of the world.
    no slavery.
    no gladiators which kill themselves in stadiums.
    the concept of human rights and its increasing enforcement in many parts of the world
    etc.

    of course there are horrible things. which make the scripture seem to be for our time.
    but of course the same would have ppl of the past thought.

    even the first christians 2000 years ago thought it.

    basically, today we live in a world with better conditions in many parts but also with new problems.

    since humans are NEVER satisfied with their situation and tend to do bad things that scripture is a evergreen.

    who knows what the future brings? it may be 100 times worse than today.

    Inquisitor posted Wed, 04 Jul 2007 01:46:00 GMT(7/4/2007)

    Post 575 of 736
    Joined 11/5/2005

    "Critical times hard to deal with" befalls a JW when:

    1) You fail to attend meetings, prepare for meetings, give *upbuilding* comments (without looking at the paragraphs! oooo) at meetings and fail to go from door to door every weekend.

    2) You disrespect the FDS with a pointed comment at the meetings

    3) Your wife discovers you with some online adult entertainment and only one of your hands is visible above the desk.

    4) Your JW mother-in-law leaks to the BOE that you and her daughter have started enacting scenes from the Kama Sutra.

    5) You tell the college-educated elder that he should shove his hypocritical college-bashing spiel up where the sun don't shine.

    6) That same elder discovers you and his daughter in a compromising position in the backseat of your car.

    7) Instead of delivering your TMS talk, you decide to spice things up by "coming out" to the congregation.

    8) You tell an elder's wife that if she keeps being so bitchy she might get leprosy or turn into a pillar of salt.

    9) When a JW youth is on the assembly/DC stage doing his bit for the anti-university propaganda, you walk up to that stage, turn around to face the audience, bend over and let the loudest fart rip till the PA system catches it.

    10) At the Memorial, you take the cup of wine and refuse to pass it along. You hiss at the attendants when they try to take it from you.

    Yes, when any of the above happens, you can bet your ass there will be critical times in store for you.

    silly INQ

    emptywords posted Wed, 04 Jul 2007 01:47:00 GMT(7/4/2007)

    Post 209 of 515
    Joined 6/19/2007

    The scripture is discribing the personalities of the people....

    Whenever there is a breakdown in family their is a breakdown in society... and that is why it is so critical...

    And of course with technology in the hands of extremists creates a very very shaky world.

    There was never the ability to blow to world up, only takes one extemists to cause world wide havok.

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