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divorce

    F luffy posted Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:06:00 GMT(1/10/2007)

    Post 27 of 43
    Joined 9/24/2006

    How would somebody argue the jw doctrine that a divorced person cannot remarry a jw unless "scripturally" divorced..ive looked through the Bible scriptures on this and find it hard to argue the jw interpretation although I would be really grateful for any arguments against the jw interpretation on this that could hold water!!!

    M garybuss posted Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:23:00 GMT(1/10/2007)

    Post 5515 of 7501
    Joined 10/8/2001

    The first question comes to my mind is . . . why would anybody want to marry a Jehovah's Witness?

    That person would be a good candidate for a frontal lobotomy.

    In the United States, any single or legally divorced person can marry any other legally old enough single or legally divorced person of the opposite sex.

    sammielee24 posted Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:34:00 GMT(1/10/2007)

    Post 723 of 7774
    Joined 12/9/2004

    I'm with Gary on this one - who the heck cares? If a person's divorced they can marry anyone they want. The ridiculous levels of 'worthiness' that the WT puts on people is insane and if someone wants to play by those rules I guess they can swallow a prozac, be happy and join the fray. Quite frankly - all this crud about someone being 'able' to do this or that according to what the WT says is just that - something to be flushed down the loo. After all - how many people sitting in those same seats at the KH - that beautiful bastion of cleanliness according to the WT - do in fact act in the same manner as all the worldy people they accuse of being swine? The answer is all - they are all human. I can only guess that if God is in fact up there and watching all this, he is either laughing his butt off or shaking his head in disbelief at the foollishness of it all. I'm not feeling overly generous toward the society at this moment - not that they deserve my generosity anyway..but there it is. sammieswife.

    F juni posted Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:44:00 GMT(1/10/2007)

    Post 3480 of 5290
    Joined 10/4/2004

    Gary Buss said:

    The first question comes to my mind is . . . why would anybody want to marry a Jehovah's Witness?

    That person would be a good candidate for a frontal lobotomy.

    In the United States, any single or legally divorced person can marry any other legally old enough single or legally divorced person of the opposite sex.

    Gary I love your humor. You're right on with this one.

    Juni

    M OnTheWayOut posted Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:45:00 GMT(1/10/2007)

    Post 1387 of 18222
    Joined 9/8/2006

    I'm with Gary, also. I can understand faders living under a WT microscope, trying
    to live by the rules while not getting DF'ed, but I could not understand why such a
    person would want to marry a JW while doing so.

    I also cannot understand how anyone not living according to the rules would want
    to know the answer according to the rules.

    Lastly, anyone who believes the rules are correct would not try to get around them.

    Okay, we were harsh. Give more details.

    F Country Girl posted Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:50:00 GMT(1/10/2007)

    Post 3122 of 3315
    Joined 7/1/2002

    sammielee24 posted Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:54:00 GMT(1/10/2007)

    Post 724 of 7774
    Joined 12/9/2004

    Onthewayout - I do agree with you on the fading and can comprehend the whys and wherefores of those issues but only if someone is a witness and choosing to remain one would they care? Perhaps this is the case here, but then it begs the question of what they are doing here and more importantly, asking a question they would know the answer to? Perhaps the poster will enlighten us. sammieswife.

    F luffy posted Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:19:00 GMT(1/10/2007)

    Post 28 of 43
    Joined 9/24/2006

    I posted my story here a while back and I guess at this point am just looking for questions to answers I have and trying to come to terms with what is about to be one of the most difficult things I have ever had to do..through reading through postings on this site and many stories I have come to realise that through different circumstances many like myself have been hurt either directly or indirectly by this cult/religion or whatever you may want to call it..Gary..I read your story and was deeply moved..you have my admiration and if it brings you any vindication it is largely due to your story that I have decided that I would rather give up the love of my life to the Watchtower than become another feather in their sick cap.

    I was unhappily married and met a person who over two years I fell in love with deeply, he gave me the strength I needed to end my marriage and told me we could not continue our relationship unless I divorced and paved the way for us to marry. during my divorce proceedings this man announced that he had met a jw in a store and had i heard of them. I told him I had and if he persued it I was gone. He told me he was just interested in learning and I stupidly believed him even though I was aware of the whole brainwashing recruitment set up applied by jws. To cut a long story short, the same week my divorce became final he announced he was getting baptised which he has since done. He began by telling me he would marry me anyway, that it was his conscience with jehovah that was important and not the Watchtower rules..that soon changed when he announced the scriptures said he could only marry in the lord..so I would have to convert..and changed further when I pointed out that according to the jws it was not proven that i was scripturally divorced. I was so bessoted by him that i was prepared to loo into converting..that was until i realised he would not be "allowed" to marry me anyway.

    I told him I would have a bible study after christmas and then either convert or leave and allow him to find his "sister perfection"..I am now at the point where i feel i have no need for a bible study as there is nothing on this planet that will justify their crazy doctrines as far as im concerned, but faced with the prospect of having to allow him to move on, and in the process break my heart, i feel i need to know and try to understand as much of this jw carry on as i can in order to be able to move on.

    I hope you guys can now understand where im coming from..im not crazy or stupid, just another victim of this twisted, manipulating organisation.

    F luffy posted Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:22:00 GMT(1/10/2007)

    Post 29 of 43
    Joined 9/24/2006

    sry for the tyops!!!..shoulda read answers to questions!!!....and "look" not "loo!!!"

    F luffy posted Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:24:00 GMT(1/10/2007)

    Post 30 of 43
    Joined 9/24/2006

    geeez...typos even!!!!..see what even talking about this does to my brain lolol

    M OnTheWayOut posted Wed, 10 Jan 2007 20:34:00 GMT(1/10/2007)

    Post 1388 of 18222
    Joined 9/8/2006

    Okay then.

    A simple answer to your question is that NO, a person who is divorced for reasons other than
    adultery on the part of the other mate, cannot get married to ANYONE else, and remain in
    good standing in the JW organization.

    The way around that is to prove that the former mate has since moved on and had sexual
    relations, thus rejecting you. That would free you to remarry under WT rules.

    I must say, though, if this guy studied and got baptized, he would most likely never even
    consider marrying you, but rather would look for a dedicated faithful Witness woman.
    You definitely would be better off, IMO, just moving away from a relationship with a JW.

    sammielee24 posted Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:42:00 GMT(1/10/2007)

    Post 725 of 7774
    Joined 12/9/2004
    I told him I had and if he persued it I was gone. He told me he was just interested in learning and I stupidly believed him even though I was aware of the whole brainwashing recruitment set up applied by jws. To cut a long story short, the same week my divorce became final he announced he was getting baptised which he has since

    I think this says it all. Despite your misgivings, he chose not to consider you in his decision - which is fine for anyone to do as an individual, but as a couple, it speaks to the amount of respect he was already showing you. I feel badly for you. I have to believe you ended your marriage because it was not healthy and the sad fact is, that now that he's a baptized witness, his affair with you as a wordly woman will be seen as a bad mistake. He didn't know better cos he was just an unbeliever at the time - but now he's saved. Too much prejudice, hatred and judgement in there for me - the watchtower is like a civilized version of the Taliban to me. sammieswife.

    M avidbiblereader posted Wed, 10 Jan 2007 23:53:00 GMT(1/10/2007)

    Post 484 of 1764
    Joined 12/5/2006

    That is funny Gary but the way the Bible teaches it is the way it should be done in God's eyes, the problem comes in with WT teaching and allowing you to run off on other issues not mentioned in the Scriptures and then the problems start for those who followed the advise.

    abr

    F LovesDubs posted Thu, 11 Jan 2007 00:03:00 GMT(1/11/2007)

    Post 1333 of 2144
    Joined 2/27/2001

    I could be wrong about this...but you were never a JW and therefore the JW "rules of divorce" dont apply to you, and its not like he didnt already KNOW you werent "free to marry" already during his whole courtship and baptizm with the JWs! People dont get baptized very quickly as JWs so you know this. Its a long process. He had no business leading you to believe the marriage was even possible between you. Also the other side of the coin is, he wasnt a JW when he was courting you and there is a line between your old life and your "new personality" when you officially get baptized that forgives all the sins you did before becoming one, and that includes even murder.

    Only heart ache would come from you getting tied to this man. And his main goal would be to convert you and he would HOUND you until you acquiesced. And if you didnt...he would begin to pull away from you and eventually you will become a meetings widow...and he will go to JW get togethers without you, and three meetings a week and out door to door...and you will be alone. Its a formula for disaster and unhappiness. Find somebody with your own interests honey...and give yourself some time to heal after this divorce and learn to love and be alone with...yourself first.

    From EXPERIENCE I speaketh! Hugs

    M garybuss posted Thu, 11 Jan 2007 00:13:00 GMT(1/11/2007)

    Post 5518 of 7501
    Joined 10/8/2001

    Hi Luffy

    My story doesn't need any defense. It's just facts.

    Here's the plan.

    Witness <---------- Direction to run ---------->

    Love and hormones is the worst reason in the world to enter into a business partnership with a person. Buy a ticket on the love boat and row that boat till rational thinking comes back. Just my .02


    F nelly136 posted Thu, 11 Jan 2007 09:34:00 GMT(1/11/2007)

    Post 1438 of 3747
    Joined 12/14/2000

    if he's acting like a power queen now can you imagine what it would be like if you were actually hitched to him?(and the conditions he would put on future children?)

    it prolly hurts like hell but count your blessings that his true colours are showing now.

    SPAZnik posted Thu, 11 Jan 2007 11:59:00 GMT(1/11/2007)

    Post 1638 of 2893
    Joined 4/1/2002

    Well, I've never found any scripture that specifies that "only in the Lord" explicitly means "only the inhumane/unloving members of a militant legalistic book publishing company started a mere 150 years ago by a man named Russell with a penchant for occult practises such as numerology and pyramidology and a definite fiscal real estate advantage to be gained from self advertising and inbreeding, namely - more members=more money".

    >Besides, if by some stretch, of their narcissistic hallucinations, marrying "only in the Lord" did mean that and only that, then I wonder how come they don't consider all marriages "outside the Lord" "scripturally" invalid to begin with, therefore rendering your previous "marriage" "scripturally" null and void, and your subsequent divorce of no consequence. (Hence, negating any need for a "scriptural" divorce.) In which case, his yes meaning yes and his no, no, (another scripture) renders him a liar for the things he promised you and is now taking back. Not to mention if he said he would that is tantamount to an engagement, no? And if he reads up on his literature he might find out how serious engagement is viewed. Not to mention (in case you two had sex) that to hear the watchtower literature tell it, once an engaged man takes a woman to his home they already are considered married. Not sure if this dude had sex with you at all but if so and if he insists on going by the JW interpretation of that old law book, it might be good to look into what the watchtower says about how once a man takes a woman home they are married before god and merely have to go once a year to register their marriage with the civil government?

    (Beyond that I can't help much because it makes no sense to me to live by rigid and inflexible interpretations of such an out of date law book from backward days when women were societally considered mere property (not persons) and the laws were simply necessary to regulate men from bashing each other in as they fought over said property (see example of David killing Bathsheeba's husband in order to own her himself). Apparantly the bible god saw fit once upon a time to change and make divorce okay, at the request of mere men (and the man merely had to say I divorce thee a few times and it was done he was rid of her none of this bureaucratic waiting period and only men could do the divorcing of course, you know, back before women were persons with any rights whatsoever). The same bible god permitted one set of behaviors for how many wives and mistresses god-ordained kings could have, (even kill to have and still regain favour with a little penitance), and later a different set of rules for how many wives christian men desiring positions of leadership in the congregation may have. And according to the JWs that same god sees fit to frequently direct/permit the JWs to change their interpretations of scripture back and forth and to and fro, one set of interpretations to permit them ample leeway in the running of their organization that affects peoples lives in very real and personal ways and another for how their followers must sacrifice everything and "wash up to their elbows" in a myriad ways. It seems to me you are being told here that thousands of years later that same everchanging god has no flexibility unless the jw religious corporation okays it having only heard this mans side of the story and with no regard for you? And that if your circumstances don't fit their current set of rules and regulations you must live your days in loveless misery? Oookayyyyy.)

    >I don't know about all that ancient scripture quoting and the multitude of interpretations depending on which modern day "god-inspired" organization you ask, but here is a quotation that has stood the test of time in my life when I'm faced with messages from a loved one like those your intended seems to be sending you:

    "If you love him, let him go."



    clc417 posted Fri, 12 Jan 2007 18:40:00 GMT(1/12/2007)

    Post 1 of 1
    Joined 1/12/2007

    I am wondering if someone can give me advise here.

    I've been dating soemone for 4 years who is a JW. He recently told me that he can't pursue our relationship but he's married and it would not be accepted for him to get a divorce and then be with me. He is telling me that he would be shunned from the Hall and would not be spiritually in good terms.

    Is this so?

    M OnTheWayOut posted Fri, 12 Jan 2007 18:48:00 GMT(1/12/2007)

    Post 1421 of 18222
    Joined 9/8/2006

    I've been dating soemone for 4 years who is a JW. He recently told me that he can't pursue our relationship but he's married and it would not be accepted for him to get a divorce and then be with me. He is telling me that he would be shunned from the Hall and would not be spiritually in good terms.

    Is this so?

    Even if he is separated, he can't be too concerned about his spirituality if he's dating- especially outside the religion.
    Seriously, a married person in the JW's is not free to remarry, therefore not allowed to date.
    (Probably why he is dating a non-JW)
    Only the innocent party in a JW marriage where adultery occurred can seek a divorce.

    He is worried about being shunned- most likely totally true, because it would happen.
    As stated above- RUN the other way. He wants his cake and to eat it, too.
    He will use you if you stick around, but never marry you. You wouldn't want to marrry him, either,
    until he leaves the JW's.

    Oh, welcome to JWD forum, feel free to ask all you want.

    sammielee24 posted Fri, 12 Jan 2007 18:56:00 GMT(1/12/2007)

    Post 726 of 7774
    Joined 12/9/2004

    clc - the answer is yes.

    I know of a few people who separated and although NOT exactly sanctioned by the watchtower, it was understood to be acceptable. Not shunned by anyone. Then after a year or more of being alone and still legally bound,( which has all sorts of complications in itself because as long as one is legally married one is still responsible financially and this can be a HUGE issue) and no chance of ever reconciling, the one party files for divorce legally. Immediate shunning from everyone, including family and 'so called' friends.

    I know of one person right now who is being denied reinstatement specifically for having divorced the mate and remarrying an unbeliever and the clear intent is to NEVER allow reinstatement. The sad part is that by those hate filled actions, those who wield this power have effectively terminated ALL communication with every member of the persons family until the day they die - because they will not associate with a disfellowshipped one.

    If he won't get a divorce and move on - you will have to do it. Obviously you haven't been introduced to his family and friends have you? because if you had been, I would think he would have been forced to end it all right there and then. If you are not a JW - YOU ARE NOT A PERSON to them. I hate to be crude but I can only equate it to the Muslim that believes dog saliva is revolting - any good witness is taught that 'being' with a worldly person is equally a revolting. sammieswife.

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