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Jehovah's Witnesses are not a CULT ...

    M Fatfreek posted Mon, 07 Aug 2006 20:30:00 GMT(8/7/2006)

    Post 400 of 1277
    Joined 5/3/2005

    …according to 30% of the following definitions. That leaves 70% that show quite the opposite.
    So -- are they a cult? Ask any of Jehovah’s Witnesses and the answer is NO! Ask any ex-JW’s and most folks from some other branch of Christianity and their answer is YES! Which is it?
    To be honest, there are many definitions of that word. The next time someone asks me the question, “Are Jehovah’s Witnesses a cult?”, I will answer, “Yes, by most definitions they are”.

    Ten Definitions of Cult

    JWs Fit

    adherents of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices

    Yes

    fad: an interest followed with exaggerated zeal; "he always follows the latest fads"; "it was all the rage that season"

    Yes

    a system of religious beliefs and rituals; "devoted to the cultus of the Blessed Virgin"
    wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

    Yes

    In religion and sociology, a cult is a group of people (often a new religious movement) devoted to beliefs and goals which may be contradictory to those held by the majority of society. Its marginal status may come about either due to its novel belief system or due to idiosyncratic practices that cause the surrounding culture to regard it as far outside the mainstream.
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult

    Yes

    In traditional usage, the cult of a religion, quite apart from its sacred writings ("scriptures"), its theology or myths, or the personal faith of its believers, is the totality of external religious practice and observance, the neglect of which is the definition of impiety. Cult is literally the "care" owed to the god and the shrine. ...By extension, "cult" has come to connote the total cultural aspects of a religion, as they are distinguished from others through change and individualization.
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_(religion)

    Yes

    A religious group that follows a particular theological system. In the context of Christianity, and in particular, CARM, it is a group that uses the Bible but distorts the doctrines that affect salvation sufficiently to cause salvation to be unattainable. A few examples of cults are Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Science, Christadelphians, Unity, Religious Science, The Way International, and the Moonies. (See also Cults)
    www.carm.org/dictionary/dic_c-d.htm

    Yes

    (cult) (kult) a system of treating disease based on some special and unscientific theory of disease causation.
    www.merckmedicus.com/pp/us/hcp/thcp_dorlands_content.jsp

    No

    Veneration ( or honoring ) of a saint expressed in public acts, local or universal, and formally approved by the Pope.
    www.ichrusa.com/saintsalive/glossary.htm

    No

    A religious group which denies the essential doctrines of Christianity. The term is usually reserved for groups founded after 1750.
    www.dtl.org/trinity/misc/glossary.htm

    No[1]

    A following of people.
    www.britishcouncil.org/ukinfocus-music-glossary.htm

    Yes


    [1] To be fair, many religious groups have their own “essential doctrines”. This, therefore, could be highly subjective.

    M james_woods posted Mon, 07 Aug 2006 20:43:00 GMT(8/7/2006)

    Post 831 of 12291
    Joined 10/26/2005

    I have a theory about the minority of real, bonafide, ex-JWs here who are truly out but will argue with you all day long that "they are not a cult". Usually, they try to use "semantic arguments" to avoid the label.

    I think this is part of the healing process. I think that for a long time, we feel shame for ever having been in this religion and some of us don't want new friends to actually know where we came from, as it might make us look "weird" or something. It would follow that some do not like their ex-religion referred to as a cult (even if they know in their hearts that it was) as this is a bad reference to them by extension.

    I have a friend that I have known for at least 10 years. He quit the Scientology way back about the time I quit the witnesses. He is very secretive about ever having been a member - I think he only told me recently because I am pretty open about my story quitting the Watchtower. He is one who sort of held on to some of the belief structure, but had to leave because of the general wacko factors. How this works, I don't know - but he also gets very upset if you call the Scientologists a cult!

    And, of course, if it is not, and if JWdom are not, then I would be hard pressed to tell you what is.

    James

    M Mistah MOJO posted Mon, 07 Aug 2006 22:16:00 GMT(8/7/2006)

    Post 21 of 127
    Joined 8/3/2006

    I have two--yes two--dictionaries and each one defines "cult" as a synonym for religion. Religion is cult, cult is religion. However, I suspect both of these dictionaries are out of date. The word "cult" began to transmogrify sometime in the latter half of the twentieth century, as far as I can tell. The word was picked up, emptied of its historical denotation, and given a new denotation by zealous evangelicals and fundamentalists who were determined to extend their "us versus them" mentality into the cult-ure at large. So, "cult" has now become a word for "bad religion." As if there is a religion whose effects have not been primarily deleterious. MM

    M littlerockguy posted Mon, 07 Aug 2006 22:24:00 GMT(8/7/2006)

    Post 890 of 2429
    Joined 4/8/2005

    I would say it is a cult but not according to what most people visualize in their mind when they think of the word "cult", or at least what I imagined when I would hear the word cult. I used to think of the Jim Jones tragedy and the Davidians and smaller groups of people and not organizations that looked like a mainstream religion from the outside. LRG

    M Fatfreek posted Tue, 08 Aug 2006 01:36:00 GMT(8/8/2006)

    Post 401 of 1277
    Joined 5/3/2005

    Mojo, I love your comments. I thought at first you used some home brewed word there, transmogrify, but learned differently as I looked it up. Denotation was another.
    As if there is a religion whose effects have not been primarily deleterious.
    Your thoughts seem to be right on the nose.

    Fats

    M garybuss posted Tue, 08 Aug 2006 02:17:00 GMT(8/8/2006)

    Post 4669 of 7501
    Joined 10/8/2001

    In my own mind it doesn't matter if they are labeled a cult or a religion or a publishing business or a cultural society. I like what Jim Penton wrote, write the facts and let the facts stand or fall on their own merit.
    I can only write from my own personal experiences and from the volumes of documentation supplied by the Watch Tower Society and the Jehovah's Witness people.
    When I was a Witness, I didn't know I was living in a problem. I thought "THEY" were the problem.
    I was raised as a Witness kid by a rigid Witness zealot father and a neurotic mother marked by chronic anxiety and fits of rage. All of the Witness people I was around almost 7 days a week were omnipotent, egocentric, narcissistic, grandiose, and condescending. All were delusional and none were what I'd call pragmatic.
    The Witness people I knew were not very kind to children. Some were abusive to children with group approval. In fact, child abuse was a requirement. When they built a new Hall in the 50's they built a "crying room" with soundproof walls and a picture window and sound from the amplified speaker piped right into the ceiling.
    I never saw a Kingdom Hall with a laughing room.

    M moshe posted Tue, 08 Aug 2006 02:32:00 GMT(8/8/2006)

    Post 370 of 9085
    Joined 1/18/2005

    It's just like how I feel about President Bush. His supporters can see no wrong. My arguement is, so then we will let history judge him- History will decide, if he was a great President or one of the worst. The same thing would work for JW's , if they just looked at 125+ years of recorded history about the WT Society- AND that is why the Org goes to such pains to make the mind of a JW work like a child's magic slate- every few years they pull up the celluloid and erase the JW brain. Shoot, most will refuse to discuss any aspect of their feelings about 1975. I always ask a JW if they are happy- when they say yes, I tell them "you need to stop lying, Jehovah knows the truth"
    shalom,
    Moshe

    M unclebruce posted Tue, 08 Aug 2006 02:33:00 GMT(8/8/2006)

    Post 4540 of 4415
    Joined 2/18/2001

    I defy anyone to read Steve Hassans "Combatting Cult Mind Control" and come away saying the JW's are not a cult.

    Is anyone free to leave without serious personal repercussions? Some JW's are even quite proud to refer to it as a cult.

    unclebruce, 'incultcated' at the Kigdom Hall.

    :::

    Garybus said: "In my own mind it doesn't matter if they are labeled a cult or a religion or a publishing business or a cultural society."

    beautifully said.

    M james_woods posted Tue, 08 Aug 2006 14:57:00 GMT(8/8/2006)

    Post 835 of 12291
    Joined 10/26/2005

    I am 100% with UncleBruce -- they are one, and in the worst of the "mind and behavioral control" context.

    Mr MOJO is also correct according to what I can find in most dictionaries - "cult" is usually defined as a religious subset of belief.

    So they are one semantically, too.

    James

    M Dansk posted Tue, 08 Aug 2006 15:09:00 GMT(8/8/2006)

    Post 3430 of 5190
    Joined 2/16/2003

    One of the definitions in my dictionary - Reader's Digest Wordpower Dictionary - defines cult as: "a small religious group regarded as strange or as imposing excessive control over members."

    Says it all for me!

    if they just looked at 125+ years of recorded history about the WT Society

    Heck, how've they got away with it for so long!

    Ian

    M drew sagan posted Tue, 08 Aug 2006 15:17:00 GMT(8/8/2006)

    Post 1125 of 4140
    Joined 8/16/2005

    Are JWs a cult? I think it just depends upon how you define the word.
    Even if they are not a cult by every sense of the term, they are certainly a 'High Controll Group'.
    The way they controll the memberships information, demand large amounts of time from their lives, supress their own history, distort the truth in the publications, and how they feel that their leadership alone are the chosen ones are all things many would associate with cults. The fact that JWs are less aggressive in these areas than other controll groups only sets them apart with the degree at which they do these things, but it dosn't change that they do them none the less.

    Johnny posted Tue, 08 Aug 2006 20:37:00 GMT(8/8/2006)

    Post 9 of 69
    Joined 3/23/2006

    ...and the Pope is not Catholic.

    M heathen posted Tue, 08 Aug 2006 20:48:00 GMT(8/8/2006)

    Post 5656 of 8126
    Joined 4/13/2001
    A religious group which denies the essential doctrines of Christianity. The term is usually reserved for groups founded after 1750.

    I'd have to say yes to that one . The WTBTS rejects the creeds that the mainstream religionists adhere to . Teachings such as trinity and a literal hellfire were some of those beliefs the WTBTS refutes .

    headmath posted Tue, 08 Aug 2006 22:52:00 GMT(8/8/2006)

    Post 100 of 207
    Joined 5/27/2006

    Gary buss

    Sounds like my story. I thought the world around me was EVIL and I therefore elevated myself above them. What else could you do - die with them? There is a reward system in place. A JW must publicly SHUN the world in order to be accepted by their fellow JW. This is simply a " birds of a feather flock together" phenomina. It was started by Russell,.it will be destroyed by apostates

    F mama1119 posted Wed, 09 Aug 2006 00:02:00 GMT(8/9/2006)

    Post 115 of 1143
    Joined 3/21/2006

    I think cult is putting it nicely

    DubBeachBabe posted Thu, 10 Aug 2006 19:08:00 GMT(8/10/2006)

    Post 7 of 19
    Joined 8/2/2006

    I agree with Drew that the JW organisation is more of a high control group than a true cult in its 21st century definition.

    The term certainly is open to many interpretations. Christianity began as a cult by most definitions, if you think about the context of its origins. But I think one of the defining features of a truly scary cult is that a high-powered all-controlling personality heads it up (like Moonies, The Way International).

    In that sense, JWs don't belong to a cult. (Or maybe I'm one of those exJWs in denial!)

    What got to me the absolute most, when I was inside of it, was the presumptiousness of trying to control everyday things like what movies people watch, for heaven's sake, and what facial hair is permissible. How long a hem on a dress should be. Whether to do yoga (answer: never). Who may stay over at your house.

    Anecdote: the only time I was ever personally visited by a pair of elders to discuss my 'conduct' was when a bunch of guys, brothers in good standing, stayed over in the living room of the house I was sharing with two other girls, all three of us in excellent standing, after a chaste dinner party! I shudder now when I think of that visit . My spare room is open to any friends, any time!

    If you buy into that stuff then it's easy to unquestioningly not get a higher education, work part-time for the rest of your life, grow old without financial provisions, die on an operating table...

    But then, there really are people who need and want that degree of 'guidance'. I'm just not one of them. My mantra is Don't tell me what to do! If I don't make my own decision then it's not my decision. And then it's not my life.

    M RevFrank posted Fri, 11 Aug 2006 19:04:00 GMT(8/11/2006)

    Post 265 of 286
    Joined 11/30/2002

    Cult:...A person or group that has a following of a person, place, or thing........

    Star Trek has a following.......Star Wars has a folloing.......Matel has a following......Superman has a following....Religions have a following, ects, so forth and so on.

    These things are called cult(s). Cults are a wide subjects. So to break down the followings in the theological issues to orthodox, a cult is a following of those who lead off the christian dostrine in creating their own private interpretation of the Bible. "2 Peter 1:20.21," ...knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit."

    Russell did it; Smith did it, Arius did it.....

    M XJW4EVR posted Fri, 11 Aug 2006 19:17:00 GMT(8/11/2006)

    Post 628 of 2286
    Joined 8/16/2004
    A religious group which denies the essential doctrines of Christianity. The term is usually reserved for groups founded after 1750.

    You said, "No" to this statement, and the stated:

    To be fair, many religious groups have their own “essential doctrines”. This, therefore, could be highly subjective.

    To be fair, the JWs deny nearly every basic tenent of Catholic, Orthodox & Protestant theology.

    The JWs deny the Trinity, the Diety of Jesus Christ, the Diety & Personhood of the Holy Spirit, and the bodily resurrection of Jesus. These doctrines are unamimous in their acceptance by all of the branches of Christianity. Therefore, I would disagree with you on both statements.

    Rocky_Girl posted Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:16:00 GMT(7/19/2011)

    Post 322 of 449
    Joined 8/31/2007

    I like this thread about the definition of the word cult and the common perception of the word "cult"

    Concerned JW posted Tue, 19 Jul 2011 17:39:00 GMT(7/19/2011)

    Post 8 of 56
    Joined 7/18/2011

    Yes it is an interesting thread showing the word "cult" is a transmogrified word and so is now used to indicate a "bad Religion" which is very subjective and open to people then directing it at a religion they personally dislike. Steve Hassan is a Jew and clearly does not define all religions by his definition of "Cult"

    Originally the word "cult" specifically related to religions that had ritualistc practises but in recent years the ways to define it are wide-ranging, many and varied and also extremely subjective. The usage of "Cult" on this site seems to be directed at Jehovah's Witnesses specifically but also most religions seem to be also defined as cults on here because of their religious nature and recognition of God as a higher being.

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