Help me prove to my bf that defellowshipping happens

Not only do disfellowshippings happen, but they can have tragic consequences.

Here is the letter my wife wrote after her father committed suicide.  He had been disfellowshipped (and ignored by his friends as a result) for over a year.  It's a tough read, but it is real and it offers rea life insight into what life is really like amongst Jehovah's Witnesses:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/47789/1.ashx

Alright, I'm just gonna ignore the crap I've seen spewed thus far.... I am personally a Jehovah's Witness and I can confirm that disfellowshipping does happen. If your boyfriend thinks it doesn't, his head has been under a rock. Despite my irritation at some of the things said in this thread so far I won't bother commenting on my opinion of disfellowshipping but it DOES happen. I have 2 very close friends whose mother has been disfellowshipped 3 times and is still disfellowshipped. There are a myriad of other incidents of disfellowshipping that I've heard of and seen myself. It happens...

yes megg u can tell him that it does happen in the jwsin fact my brother is n my dad was before he passed

Not only is disfellowshipping Really happening but it's also found in the bible. The amish do it too but I'm not sure about the mormon's. I was disfellowshipped Dec. 1993 right after I spent the night at a guy's house. My mom called the elders and told them I did not come home all that night and two days later I was pulled in to a meeting with me, my mom, and two elders. That's when I was disfellowshipped. I tried afterwards to get reinstated. I went for months to the Kingdom Hall trying to prove that I wanted back in. At my "probationary hearing" (ha ha) I was told that they knew Jehovah forgave me but that I needed to prove myself to the rest of the congregation by showing up more at the hall. I just looked at them and I had an epiphany. I realized at that moment that they were just men in a religous club and that they were not govered by God because God knew that I was sorry. They will tell you that they only disfellowship unrepenting people but I know for a FACT that is not true. My sister and a few of my friends are disfellowshipped as well and they all have their own story. Example: Sister- disfellowshipped for saying to the elders and to other people in the congregation that dis-f me was wrong. Friend- dis-f for having sex with a man that later became her husband. Friend- dis-f for skipping school with the wrong guy who ended up raping her and she became pregnant from that rape. Friend- dis-f for threatening a man with a knife, she was later diagnosed with bi-polar disorder ( a mental illness that you cannot hold people accountable for). There is more to my story that I have left out. The man I spent the night with has been my husband going on 11 years. That night we did not have sex, we did not even see each other naked. We just stayed up all night talking and fell asleep in each others arms. The elders did not believe that I was telling the truth. But I was. God would know that. If the elders were govered by God, they would know that. As a side note to this story. I was in a car accident 2 weeks after I was married. I was close to dying and I asked my mom for the elders to pray over me. Keep in mind that I came from a stricked jw family that did not talk to anyone that was not a jw. So these people at the Hall were my family and friends, they were everyone I hung out with since I was a baby. So I asked for the elders (uncles to me) to see me possibly for the last time. They told my mom that they would not come into the hospital for a disfellowshipped person and that I was dead already in God's eyes. My mom came to tell me the news. I was devastated. I had a punctured liver, broken tailbone, phemure bone, hip, 2 ribs, wrist, and I was pregnant at the time and lost that baby. My mom said to me " What do you expect when you marry a worldly boy".

The cruelty of this organization will not be felt and will not be noticed until you disagree. They truely are wolves in sheeps clothing to the imperfect person. I strongely recommend to all who are thinking of being a jw or who are studing to be a jw to find love and a since of community within yourself and don't go looking for it here. To the mentally ill who are thinking of joining this organization it will offer you a since of control and well being. Even if it is a false since, it may work for you. However, expect to have to give up family or friends at some point in your life. They will tell you no that they encourage a good family life and that they only kick people out that are evil. THAT IS NOT TRUE. They will kick you out too for any imperfection.

Life has not been the same for me. I have not spoken to my mother in 7 years because she told me "If you're not going to be in the paradise than I might as well get used to it now". She has not met my son who is 5 years old now. And the only friend I have is the ex-jw friend I told you about that slept with her boyfriend who later became her husband. The accident happened when I was 19 years old and I have since learned to walk again. I have 2 children and a wonderful husband that helped me when I was crippled and when no one else would love me. He was raised a catholic but doesn't do anything religous anymore besides spend time with his family. One last word of advice. Beware of anyone saying that they and only they are Gods chosen people. All things in this universe come from the smallest most minute thing- a cell.

(((((love11)))))

I hate when I hear these stories.  "Love your enemy." Is not a family member who wishes to live a life other than yours, not better than your enemy?

 

Bryan

 

Have You Seen My Mother

They really don't hear themselves, do they? Jehovah's forgiveness is not valid until it is approved by the congregation, eh? Perhaps Jehovah was being presumptuous by granting forgiveness. Maybe next time he should check with the elders? first.

I'm surprised they don't disfellowship Jehovah for "running ahead of the organization?."

love11, I'm sorry you suffered so much.

Walter

Thankyou Bryan and Walter for your kind words. Love

MM, not only was I disfellowshipped for writing the Gov. Body a letter, in which I referred to them as the "whitewashed graves and hypocrites" they are.....funny...seems as though someone was allegedly killed once upon a time for calling the pharisees that very same thing......BUT.....do you remember in John, Ch. 8, wherein Jesus saved the adulteress from the mob that was going to stone her?  In the New World Translation (JW bible), that particular passage of scriptures is in FINE PRINT and is NEVER referred to in their publications (I researched their archived publications - ALL of 'em - because it would be an act of mercy....a reason to be merciful and show love and compassion for someone who'd made a mistake.....they have no love, show no mercy.....unless the WTS can profit from it or the elders can on a personal level (you let my family member slide and I'll let you family member slide) 

Dear Meg:

Forget about all of that stuff posted above. It is true of course, but merely reading it won't be pursuasive.

Simply have your boyfriend ask his bible study-conductor or a JW that he is close to about disfellowshipping.  Have the person explain fully to him the JW viewpoint on disfellowshipping.

(But don't stop there!!!!)

NEXT he should ask whether there are ANY DF'd ones right now in the congregation that are attending the Kingdom Hall. If there are, then he should 1) observe for himself how the others treat that person and 2) if possible try to contact that person or better yet go and TALK to that person right in the Kingdom Hall.

THE REACTION THAT THIS WOULD PRODUCE WILL BE ALL THAT YOUR BOYFRIEND NEEDS TO DRIVE HOME WHAT HE NEEDS TO KNOW.

I imagine that he may find anything from fear, surprise, welcome, relief in the reaction of the DF'd one that he approaches (which will be very insightful to him)

and more importantly HE WILL NO DOUBT BE either immediately taken aside, spoken to or soon afterwards approached by his study-conductor, JW friend or an elder who will scold him or inform him that he should shun the DF'd one if he wants to continue on his study. THIS WILL BE ALL THAT HE NEEDS as I think he will certainly have doubts about gettting baptized as a JW after that.

IF THERE ARE NO DF'd ones at his Kingdom Hall then the next best thing for him to do after the initial question to his study-conductor/JW friend/elder is to pointedly ask them:

1) Tell me what would happen to me, how would I be treated if I were to get baptized and some time afterwards be disfellowshipped?

He might further inquire about the specific judicial committee process (which will be enlightening) and he might raise the issue of SINCE HE IS BEING ENCOURAGED TO DISASSOCIATE HIMSELF FROM WORLDLY/NON-JW PERSONS, i.e. get rid of all of his old friends, AND MAKE FRIENDS WITH ONLY JWS, what will be the social impact upon him in the event that he were to be DF'd??  Let him ponder that a while and that will no doubt get him thinking about it too.

hope all goes well,

Eduardo 

yup - have him ask his instructor - what's up with that?

i think one thing that people who are trying to get close to god need to understand is that not everything that the bible says is something that will be in perfect harmony with our lives, as we are living them at this moment, or possibly for a very long time.  is it fun to restrict ourselves from having contact with certain people whom we may deeply love and respect because they have done something that is against god's principles?  of course not.  it's never enjoyable to stay away from people that we love.  but the thing about disfellowshipping is that it doesn't happen without the coaperation of the person who's actually getting disfellowshipped.  the only way that action is taken is if that person has talked to the elders about something that they have done and they didn't show a repentant attitude about it.  if they didn't want to talk to the elders then they don't have to do it and as long as they don't, they won't be disfellowshipped.  of course it's hard to stay regular at the meetings and not wind up talking to them, if they have found out things or heard things already.  but actually being disfellowshipped isn't something that happens without the cooaperation of the actual person being disfellowshipped. 

of course of you decide to just stop going to meetings or disassociate yourself then it is a conscience matter for everyone who are still witnesses of god, about weather or not they want to associate themselves with you.  they are not required to "shun" you.  it is encouraged not much social contact is had with someone who has left the truth because it's just not healthy for someone trying to keep themselves on track with studies and such.  sinful tendicies are within all of us.  it is very easy to do the wrong thing.  it's hard enough to avoid it when we keep good company, never mind when we keep the company of people who aren't in the same mind frame as we are with god's princibles and values.  i would never stay away from someone because i don't think they're worthy of my company, but i would try to keep my distance if i felt that certain people might influence me to do things that i know i dont' want to do or just make it much easier to have the wrong things in my head.  i want to surround myself with people who have the same things in mind as i do becasue it's taken me a long time to turn my life around and i don't want to fall back into the same pattens i used to be in.  i look at it a lot like when someone is an alcoholic or becomes addicted to a drug.  if i used to drink to an unhealthy degree and have figured out that drinking is unhealthy for me in my life, then i would need to stop doing it altogether in order to become a healthy individual again.  well, if i made that discovery in my life, then why would i hang out with a bunch of people who regularly go out to the bars every weekend?  now, if those people don't have a drinking problem and aren't leading an unhealthy lifestyle, why shouldn't they go out to bars if they want to?  there is nothing wrong with them and they are not bad people, but it would just be unhealthy for me to be in that enviornment, so therefore, it would be logical for me to not spend so much time with them.  does that make sense? 

now, i'm not saying that every single jehovah's witness makes all the right decisions all the time.  they are all humans. some elders are on a power trip, just like some publishers have problems in their lives with this or that.  yes, the elders are supposed to be exemplamary and really be there for us and most of all be examples as how we should be and be more there to help us then anything else, but they are still humans just like all of us and mistakes are made.  we just need to do the best we can do to be the best people we can be and live up to god's standards for us as best as we can, despite any one else or what they may do.  sometimes things happen that aren't fair, but leaving god's organization and to stop serving him how we know he wants to be served isn't the answer and it isn't going to help anyone to see things any better.  we have to keep going on and doing the best we can despite everyone else and know that god will see our efforts and he is the only one who matters in this whole equation.  his opinion is the only one that matters.  is that easy?  no.  not always.  unfair things are going to keep on happening and if we stop serving god every time something unfair happens then in about a week everyone in the whole world will have forgotten about god. 

so, yes, disfellowshipping does happen, but if you stop trying to find reasons why it's horrible and start trying to see the ways its' benificial and understand the actual circumstances it happens under you'll see that it happens for a reason and it a complete last resort.  it's the last thing that god or anyone in the congragations wants to happen.  it's not easy to be one of god's people and to live your life according to the things god expects of us.  its' possible, but not easy.  but if we really want to do it and we really believe that the bible is god's word and that the way that god has set out of us to be is really the best way to live then we will spend the rest of our lives trying.  we won't stop sinning, but we'll be trying out best to please god as best we can, and that's all god expects of us is to do the best we can. 

i know this response comes far after your question, but i hope it makes sense to you. 

?

I have known several former Witnesses disfellowshipped after speaking in confidence of privacy to an elder about a private matter and they were showing a "repentant attitude" about their situation. In fact, in many situations, disfellowshipping someone is used more as a punitive measure (shame the person & deter others) then as a loving measure to get someone to repent.

Also, you say that it is hard to live "your life according to the things god expects of us"...what if living that way comes in direct contrast to what the WTS preaches? Many times throughout the history of Jehovah's Witnesses there have been teachings that were totally incorrect (especially chronology) and yet if you didn't follow those incorrect teachings then you would be disfellowshipped for apostasy...you can honestly say it is correct to not correctly follow God's word just because a man-made organization teaches differently at the time?

BTW, Amelia, your photo looks awfully familiar...have you posted here under a different name before?

love11,

Thanks for replying to my thread~! Your story is pretty sad and, unfortunately, seems to mirror so many others in some general ways. I'm sorry you're not able to talk to your mother. My wife told me that because of her emotional disability that her mother told her she'd talk to her even if she got DF'd someday, but then after hearing she would be DF'd told her she wouldn't talk to her anymore or ever meet me. Her brother at least will deal with her indirectly through me (I hope that's still the case!).

I can't blame you for your point of view at all. I'm a Christian, myself, but just totally feel the organization goes well beyond the bounds of the Bible and warps the Bible to fit whatever leaders are in control at a particular moment's wills. I'm glad to hear you have what sounds like a great family situation within your own immediate family and wish the best for you and your family (including the ones still trapped).

Leonard

 

Tell that to the people that have been spied on from elder stake outs.

Ahh, yes, the magical illustrious mind reading all seeing elders. The janitor, untrained, window washer, dipshit elders. The guys that make life and death choices to ruin entire families.

But you are right about one thing, you do have to be gullible enough to subject yourself to that, and once your an ADULT, not getting baptized at 12 or 13 like a lot of dubs, it's your own damn fault.

Amelia B.,

Please do yourself a huge favor - save that remark you just posted.  I promise you that it will do you a great service someday, perhaps someday soon.

Someday, when you are weak enough to have an independant thought, or when a dear friend is as contrite as could be but gets boot anyway, or when you've finally read enough here and it sinks in - that day, that someday, take a look at that pre-processed post you just put up.  You'll be ashamed that you ever thought that way.

 

 - Cliff

(((Amelia Bedilia)))

but the thing about disfellowshipping is that it doesn't happen without the coaperation of the person who's actually getting disfellowshipped.  the only way that action is taken is if that person has talked to the elders about something that they have done and they didn't show a repentant attitude about it.  if they didn't want to talk to the elders then they don't have to do it and as long as they don't, they won't be disfellowshipped. 

I don't mean to sound condescending but it's obvious that you have never attended a judicial meeting before.

It is a myth among jw's that disfellowshipping only happens to unrepentant people.

 When me and my sister were disfellowshipped we were both told that if we did not attend the meeting that we would be disfellowshipped anyways. At first I actually thought that they were joking because I couldn't believe that I was being called in for spending the night at a worldly boys house. The elders knew that nothing happened that night and even said that they believed I was telling the truth but that they had to make an example out of me (even though no one else knew of this incident except me and my mom.) Later, I thought that they must not have really believed me.

My sister was very humble in front of them because she was afraid to speak up for me. She was disfellowshipped for disagreeing with the elders over my disfellowshipping. Even though she brought in copies of articles that said it was ok to disagree with the elders they said that she was talking like an apostate and wanted her to come in to speak to them. She got a bad feeling from it and said that her daughter was sick and she couldn't make it to the meeting. They said that it was an emergency and that she needed to find a babysitter because if she didn't meet with them then they were going to disfellowship her. She told them that this is ridiculous and that she didn't do anything wrong and that she wasn't going to meet with them again. They said ok your name is going to be read Thursday night at the meeting.

It's hard to know what happens in that secret meeting unless you hear other's experiences. And even then, you're probably not going to believe us. But one day when you or someone close to you is disfellowshipped for doing something and they were whole heartedly repentant, then you will know we are all telling the truth. I hope with writing this to you that you don't take offence but grow in understanding, as we all have had to.

p.s. My dad was a ministerial servant and me and my mom were pioneers. Believe me when I tell you that I was shocked at how disfellowshippings really happen.

(((The Logical One)))

I am sorry to hear that your wife is being treated so cruelly by her family. I hope that you and her can build a family together that will fill your life with so much happiness that she stops wanting the past life that she had with her mother and brother. It is a painfull journey, but thanks to you she has someone to turn to.   Two aquaintances I know are trying to get reinstated just for the sole purpose of being able to talk to their families again. When I asked them about their beliefs they said that they don't want any part of it they just want to go long enough to be reinstated and then they never want to go back again. Isn't that sad. What ever happened to unconditional love? They must not have read the part about Jesus eating with sinners.  

Thanks for the great wishes~! Yes; it's really sad that people have to even consider faking their way into being reinstated just to have family ties again. What a shame... Hopefully a lot more people (such as those in your family) will eventually see things more clearly.

Again, I thank everyone for your stories. Funny thing is I made this post because my bf did not beleive this stuff happens. I talk to him tonight about it finally after he had read this post a while ago and he said he knew about it. I'm a little confused on that one, probably just more brain washing.

 

Ameilia B. get your head out of your butt! Are you blind? Why do JW's have to justify everything? This isn't a right reason for disfellowshipping people. EVERYONE ON THIS EARTH WETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT ARE GOD'S PEOPLE. Disfellowingshipping is leaving out or getting rid of one of God's people. And only God can do this. It is not up to some group or organization to make God's decisions. I seriously doubt God would put the people who have been df'd through a horrendence expereince like that where not even their family memebers would talk to them. It's plain BS.

Visit me with him in Chicago in a week.  Nobody will meet my eyes!

I think your boyfriend kept his knowing of dsf from you because he didn't want to feel stupid for believing in the religion. For some reason he is wanting something that this religion offers. My personal reason I believe people become jw's is : 1. They have a fear of the end of the world. 2. They want strict moral guidance because they feel they cannot do it on their own. Psychologists say that a fear of the end of the world is actually a fear of ones own death. And some people have real addictions- alcohol, sex, drugs, whatever; that they have tried to control on their own and cannot seem to, without the control this organization has on your life. With the proper help and guidance your bf and you will be just fine. Please remember- It's with good reason that most people find this religion to be a cult. Right now they are "love bombing" him! I hope all the info on this forum has helped both of you. And know that there are alot of good people in and out of the jw's.