Interesting Thought about JW's and People Outside the Org

On another thread, Aude Sapeare said:

JWs make this HUGE assumption that once you leave the 'protection' of the org, you will go off the deep end and become totally irresponsible, drink, smoke, do drugs and have sex with anyone and anything.

That is what I have been fighting with my husband about for 3 years now.  When he was kicked out of his JW's mom's house when he was 15, that is exactly what he did for about 20 years.  I can't get him to understand (even by my example) that you can be a good person without being a JW.  To him, it goes hand in hand.  He thinks that if he's not a JW, he has to be a depraved maniac.  It drives me nutty!!

THAT is exactly what my parents had BURNED into my head "If you leave the safety of Jehovah's org - you will succumb to Satan". HUH???? That to me says that they have no faith in the way they raised me. I was raised to have morals, i was raised to be respectful, I was raised to follow the law of the land and take care of myself.

....and thats what I do! Been DF'd 1yr and have never touched a drug in my life!!!! Never smoked either. I don't drink excessively, have never committed any crimes (major or petty), and I am not out running the streets - as my parents LOVE to accuse me of. To them, if you aren't a JW, you're obivously 'runnin the streets' and their last comment to me when I told them I refused to come back to mtgs was "It's obvoius you are SO far into the world!" HAHAHAHAHAHA.  Really? I even asked them - WHAT am I doing that is so 'street' or is so 'worldly'? Neither one could answer.

Just remember that the whole JW's vs The World is what we are TAUGHT! The org is supposed to be a bubble the guards us from ALL dangers of the big bad world...and if you leave that bubble, well then, you're no longer protected and ALL BAD is supposed to happen to you. UGH.

I think that here is a personality type who  need  a structure to keep them in check.            Or they think they do.  

They have so little faith in their own strength of character , that they need the discipline of something like the JW cult to hold them to the straight and narrow.

You need to build his confidence in himself, show him where he has already stuck to things he believes in , in his own strngth, and then he may see what he is capable of without the WT.

I have a friend who is a recovering alcoholic,and a former drug user, he knows the WT is a load of rubbish, but stays so that his former habits are proscribed by all around him, he knows he is weak. I guess for him it works.

Your fella may be made of stronger stuff, tell him to have faith in his own strength and integrity now, and leave the Dubs out of it.

Good luck,

Love

Wobble

Mr. Witness is thinking typically of JW's.  Even churchgoers are the spawn of the devil by their thinking. 
Sorry to hear your troubles.

I remember a jw friend that said because her sister didn't attend meetings then it means shes doing something that she shouldn't and is embarrassed to go back to meetings. That was drilled into her head since she grew up in the religion.

I hear ya Wobble & I agree.  He's that type of guy and I think it was made worse because he was indoctrinated early.  His mom is hard-core, too.  He doesn't see that he has done all the good things that he's done.  He always gives credit to JoeHoober.  It's distressing.

Being an ex-JW only means that you're an ex-JW.  Some ex-JWs go off the deep end but there are plenty that attempt to live decent, moral lives. On the flip side, there are many JWs that are hypocrites and live double lives.  You have to look at the person, not what religion they are or aren't. 

I agree that this is a case of hard-core indoctrination. Mr. Witness fails to see the good in others, and he also fails to see the bad in himself or the people in his organization.  This is what he has been conditioned to see, and that is what he sees.

However, as Lenin would say, "facts are stubborn" (as stubborn as Lenin himself, who never saw the light).  At some point he will have to realize that he lives in inconsistency.  He knows full well that you're a good woman, only he does not want to recognize that.

You don't have to prove to us unbelievers, or to JWs, that people can lead very good and moral lives without being witnesses.  The problem is him, and how he refuses to see reality.  He's in that box and can't leave it.

I very much like the post by Wobble, particularly the part about "They have so little faith in their own strength of character , that they need the discipline of something like the JW cult to hold them to the straight and narrow."  This is perhaps the point.

The next time he tells you something in the like, tell him that you're bored of hearing the same "holier than thou" stuff, and that he might keep his feelings of superiority to himself.  Tell him that you know him all too well to think he's perfect, yet you don't rub it in his face.

Saoirse, I agree, but try telling that to a JW who thinks that if he leaves the religion, he has no other choice but to sink into depravity.  To him, all JW's are good people (even when I point out to him that there are some questionable people in his congo) and all worldly people are not to be trusted (even me--his wife).

It's all about control and responsibility.  It's scary to him to have to control himself and make important decisions for himself & his family.  It's easy to be a drug imbibing, promiscuous alchoholic.  It's much harder to "be good for goodness sake" and realize that each & every decision you make has an impact on the other three people you live with/have responsibility for.  If he's a JW, then he is controlled by the WTBTS & all his decisions are made easy because he has a mental check list of what is acceptable and not acceptable.  If he can't make it from that, he runs to an elder.  No thinking necessary.  Here's what you wear, how you live, where you go, and who you associate with...all dictated by the F&DS.  Lovely.

But I'm not bitter...  

Mrs. Witness, I like your "be good for goodness sake".

Thx dgp.  I throw that out at him every once in awhile.  When I really want to piss him off, I sing it!

May I suggest that you use "I'm too sexy for your love...?"

Saoirse, I agree, but try telling that to a JW who thinks that if he leaves the religion, he has no other choice but to sink into depravity.  To him, all JW's are good people (even when I point out to him that there are some questionable people in his congo) and all worldly people are not to be trusted (even me--his wife).

I don't even know what to tell you to do about someone who is that blinded. Even when I was a JW, I could see that there were hypocrites in the congregation.  It must be difficult at times to live with someone like that. I'm sorry you have to deal with that.

That a huge fight my husband and I have. I can point out to him more people on the outside of the org who are better, kinder, live better lives, have less health problems, depression way less depression etc. My husband comes back Satan is not testing the world like he is us that is why they are happier. Satan has them so why would he need to make their lives hard. Satan only make life hard for JW's.

Oh MY GOD my head is just swimming. 

 Hard-core indoctrination ? Protection from the ORG? Sounds like the Mob......There are good people , and Bad People. No one sticks a gun to anyones head and makes them be a JW, Baptist, or Scientology or what ever.This is a ROTTEN WORLD for the most part from the view I see. None of us on this board, NONE ! knows if a certain individual is good enough to be on this earth except GOD.I have met really nice people who were into child porn.People I would have never judged that way.They will ALL have to answer for anything, any secrets, or conduct not seen by us. Being a JW doesn't say , I AM IN !!

I think it comes down to why people choose to adhere to a moral standard

A. Some do entirely out of fear of being punished.

B. Some do because they feel it is the right way to live. (i.e. Beneficial to themselves and others.)

JW's and kindred groups can't seem to comprehend choice 'B'

I understand his thinking, having been raised a witness myself. We are taught that everyone but Jw's are bad and not to be trusted. So those of us who leave still have that issue of trust, at least initially anyway. We no longer have 'the protection' of Jehovah, so we feel scared. We try to make a life for ourselves in 'the world', yet don't trust anyone. It has been drummed into us our entire lives that noone but Jehovah's people are worthy, that they don't have our best interests at heart...so they will lie to us and cheat us at every opportunity. We fear life itself. I am a new 'fader' and don't mind saying how scared I am. Everything I've ever known has been turned upside down and I feel confused, trapped and frightened. 

If your husband were to tell an elder or witness how he's feeling, they would tell him 'well done, you have a conscience'. My dad always said that to me, that he liked how my conscience was 'working' and how loyal I was to Jehovah. We are brought up to hear how loving a God he is, yet die hard Jw's are scared of his wrath. 

I really doubt your husband will change his thinking after all these years. He sees the elders as the gateway to Jehovah, so he will continue to run to them when he does something he sees as wrong in Jehovah's eyes. It's not something that can be easily untrained unfortunately. I think leaving the organisation as compared to other religions, is very difficult because there is so much inner guilt from years of indoctrinating. 

I hope things get better for you both...it may be a long road, but I hope your husband too comes to some kind of peace of mind