Had very intense discussion with Mum


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    sabastious posted Sun, 01 Jan 2012 20:37:00 GMT(1/1/2012)

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    I find this an interesting quote since I've always assumed you start from a hypothesis to explain observed phonemenom or predicted phenomenon (in the case of some quantum equations for example.) I've never thought you start from a position of knowing and work backwards to explain why you know - that seems to be the religious approach?

    Great find! Yes I did start with a quasi-hypothesis. That is because there is no cut and dry transition from observation and hypothesis which you seem to be purporting. I personally want to move away from the rigid way the scientific method is presented. It's stifling. I want to move away from this:


    sabastious posted Sun, 01 Jan 2012 20:39:00 GMT(1/1/2012)

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    But using the "light gets brighter" law that what replaces that cardboard shouldn't invalidate it. "New light should never cover over old light."


    sabastious posted Sun, 01 Jan 2012 20:43:00 GMT(1/1/2012)

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    Q, I don't want to take away from the cool experience you had with your mom, but this quote made me jump in my seat (startled):

    "If you look at the statistics prayer does not lead to an increase in miraculous events or better recovery rates and deep down you must acknowledge that."

    Your use of wordage here indicates that you believe you have absolute truth which is why it seems fishy to me. There is no absolute truth. Real TRUTH is moldable, if that makes sense.

    You have used the NYTimes article and reference to the study, but in no way does that study give you the right to command your mother or me. The word MUST is always used as an emotional projectile. So why are you firing missles at your mother? I think the answer to that is apparent, it's too hard NOT to because of her LDS position. It's a jab, and until you realize that you are jabbing and stop it, the conversation will eventually turn sour. I speak from experience not my ass (because many times I am speaking out of my ass).


    F Quandry posted Sun, 01 Jan 2012 21:42:00 GMT(1/1/2012)

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    I think the important thing here is that you and your mum continued on. Find common ground as a family, and stick to that. I know it's hard, but I know one other thing. One day, your mum will be gone. You won't look back and wish that you'd made more arguments that forced her to see your point. You'll wish you had spent your precious time together enjoying one another's company, talking about enjoyable times when you were young, family history, etc.I wish I could spend just one day with my mother talking about places we went as a family,etc. She's been gone four years now. Doesn't seem possible.

    I hope you can just agree to disagree, and overlook anything she sends to you about her faith.

    Hope the best for you in this new year.

    GromitSK posted Sun, 01 Jan 2012 22:11:00 GMT(1/1/2012)

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    I sometimes wonder when religious people say "you must have respect for my beliefs" they confuse having respect for their right to hold them and respecting the actual beliefs per se. I don't understand why there would be an expectation that anyone would show respect for something they found unsupportable or even ridiculous. Have respect for the person sure, or their rights, but their beliefs?

    There seems to be an underlying assumption that the act of questioning or challenging beliefs is in someway 'disrespectful'. I can see that it might be done in a disrespectful manner, but I can't see how simply raising questions is intrinsically disrespectful.

    sizemik posted Mon, 02 Jan 2012 01:04:00 GMT(1/2/2012)

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    GromitSK . . . that is one very excellent point.

    Unfortunately, many religious folk have a fairly emotional attachement to their beliefs . . . and criticism levelled at the belief, is almost always taken personally, relieving the argument of it's rationality.

    Band on the Run posted Mon, 02 Jan 2012 01:17:00 GMT(1/2/2012)

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    The exchange your mom and had impressed me. It almosts sounds like William F. Buckley, Jr. or Charlie Rose interview. I would not be so thoughtful. Perhaps b/c I am a daughter but my mom is there for me to complain to and to use childhood language skills.

    My JW grandmother was once so judgmental of some innocent thing I was doing that my mom exploded and said "all right, we will cut ties but you will never see your grandchildren again." My gm was very dominant and controlling. Scary. Ten minutes later she called back, crying, and apologized. We are still in shock. Evidence that Jesus Christ might exist. Your mom did a true mom thing.


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