Do you have to deal with a psychopathic person?

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    M moshe posted Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:18:00 GMT(11/11/2011)

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    Def: Psychopathy (/sa?'k?p?θi/[1][2]) is a mental disorder characterized primarily by a lack of empathy and remorse, shallow emotions, egocentricity, and deceptiveness. Psychopaths are highly prone to antisocial behavior and abusive treatment of others, and are very disproportionately responsible for violent crime. Though lacking empathy and emotional depth, they often manage to pass themselves off as average individuals by feigning emotions and lying about their pasts.

    Much has been written about the psychopathic leanings of the founders of the Watchtower religion and the resultant cost in wasted human lives. I failed to do due diligence in investigating the claims of the little blue Truth book and accepted it on face value. Consequently, I wasted about 16 years of my life because of those corrupt narcissists in Bethel. I recently read that 4% of the population has a psychopathic problem of one sort or another and the other 96% of us have to clean up the mess they make in society. One of the hallmarks of these callous people is the ease with which they can lie, ie, their conscience is not like ours. Please protect yourself from people who use smooth words and pretend interest in order to hurt or use you. We who are survivors of the WT gulag, don't need to fall victim to one of those 4%'ers. Any experiences in dealing with these problem people would be helpful to all.

    http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath.htm

    In short, the psychopath - and the narcissist to a lesser extent - is a predator. If we think about the interactions of predators with their prey in the animal kingdom, we can come to some idea of what is behind the "mask of sanity" of the psychopath. Just as an animal predator will adopt all kinds of stealthy functions in order to stalk their prey, cut them out of the herd, get close to them and reduce their resistance, so does the psychopath construct all kinds of elaborate camoflage composed of words and appearances - lies and manipulations - in order to "assimilate" their prey.

    This leads us to an important quesion: what does the psychopath REALLY get from their victims? It's easy to see what they are after when they lie and manipulate for money or material goods or power. But in many instances, such as love relationships or faked friendships, it is not so easy to see what the psychopath is after. Without wandering too far afield into spiritual speculations - a problem Cleckley also faced - we can only say that it seems to be that the psychopath ENJOYS making others suffer. Just as normal humans enjoy seeing other people happy, or doing things that make other people smile, the psychopath enjoys the exact opposite.

    M james_woods posted Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:24:00 GMT(11/11/2011)

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    I think there may be certain jobs for which being a psychopath is an absolute prerequisite.

    One of those is certainly founding or running a cult religion.

    Charlie Manson, L. Ron Hubbard, Jim Jones - all in the same sorry sack as Russell, Rutherford, and their descendants.

    M moshe posted Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:28:00 GMT(11/11/2011)

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    It appears that the followers of Harold-I'm just a humble teacher-Camping, have had to become victims in order to learn this lesson , too. It's never his fault.

    M james_woods posted Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:35:00 GMT(11/11/2011)

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    It appears that the followers of Harold-I'm just a humble teacher-Camping, have had to become victims in order to learn this lesson , too. It's never his fault.

    Absolutely, and I would give you a pretty good wager that there is probably a Rutherford-type in his organization just waiting to take over when he dies.

    NoRegrets posted Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:36:00 GMT(11/11/2011)

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    Joined 10/22/2011

    I have TWO psychopath witness relatives. My father and my uncle. I am not exaggerating here, they fit ALL of the criteria! I was raised a witness and can say that I knew many hundreds of witnesses. Many had their shortcomings and some were probably at least abusive, but none fit the criteria of a psychopath. My dad was literally feared and unliked by the whole congregation and to this day doen't have a single friend. My uncle has moved all over the world being an insane JW. He used to be a commuter to bethel and did international construction in Africa and Central America. He now lives somewhere in South America and is nuts! Guess who gets to see both of these psychos at a non-witness funeral Sunday? I hope I make it out alive!!!

    NewChapter posted Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:38:00 GMT(11/11/2011)

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    Joined 1/25/2011

    I used to. Charming, funny, loving-------until the cops came pounding on the door at 3am. But that's a long story and entails a journey into which I thought I WAS THE CRAZY ONE, and such is the mastery of the sociopath.

    NC

    Berengaria posted Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:43:00 GMT(11/11/2011)

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    Joined 1/25/2010

    Hmmmm

    M james_woods posted Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:53:00 GMT(11/11/2011)

    Post 6317 of 12292
    Joined 10/26/2005

    Does everybody's ex-wife count?

    M moshe posted Fri, 11 Nov 2011 15:57:00 GMT(11/11/2011)

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    Joined 1/18/2005

    I fell victim to a sweet charming woman who became my second wife (1990). She was a faithful spirit-filled church goer to a little wacky (IMO) Vineyard Church. It was only after we were married that her true nature began to come out. She was a regular guest ( I found out too late) every 3 or 4 years for two weeks of locked ward mental therapy to level mood her again. I cut my losses after 9 months- and her family said it was my fault for not doing more to take care of her. Of course they had a lifetime of learning how to walk on eggshells around her, so as not to set her off. And I was supposed to learn how to do that, too. My 12 year old daughter committed the unforgiveable crime of, USING THE GUEST TOWEL in her bathroom. That mean irrational reaction from her should have set off warning bells- and it did, but I overlooked the warning. Please trust your gut instincts!

    sabastious posted Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:01:00 GMT(11/11/2011)

    Post 5789 of 9407
    Joined 2/3/2010

    Chilling article and all too true. *puts covers over head*

    -Sab

    F lisaBObeesa posted Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:08:00 GMT(11/11/2011)

    Post 1807 of 2350
    Joined 5/8/2001

    Wow... just spent a few hours researching psychopaths, wondering "Could a GROUP be classified as psychopathic?" I came here to post about it and see your post, Moshe.

    Much has been written about the psychopathic leanings of the founders of the Watchtower religion and the resultant cost in wasted human lives.

    I was thinking about the psychopathic leanings of the entire organization...the structure, the members, all of it.

    I think that organizations CAN be psychopathic, though I can't find much research on it yet.

    Doesn't 'psychopathic' describe Jehovah's Witnesses, both as individual members of their group and as a group?

    They wear a mask of charm to get what they want: converts.

    They have no empathy for people who they feel threaten the group identity.

    They will cut off their own Mother or Father or child quickly and cleanly.

    They will be vicious in emotionally abusing those that threaten the group or how great the group looks.

    They rationalize their abuse of others.

    They have a grandios vision of themselves. They believe themselves to be the best religion in the world and they believe themselves to be the most knowlegable about the Bible of any people in the world, they believe they are the most rightous people in the world, the most honest people in the world, they believe themselves to be the most pure, the most GOOD, and on and on and on. They are the BEST. Period.

    They lie and manipulate to gain converts or to look good to the outside world.

    They have no remorse for pain caused to outsiders.

    They often appear arrogant, opinionated, domineering, and cocky.

    no respect for the differing opinions of others.

    ****

    It's almost like if you drop normal a person into the Witnesses, they qualify as a psychopath. You take them out, they don't.

    M moshe posted Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:12:00 GMT(11/11/2011)

    Post 6665 of 9085
    Joined 1/18/2005

    Yes , the article is chilling to contemplate. The chilling part, is how probably how many psychopathic politicians have duped us. Based on the big mess they have created, I'd venture to say quite a few. As the article pointed out- liars always have the advantage over the honest person= a higer percentage of liars will get elected.

    -Take, for example, the "legal argument" as explicated by Robert Canup in his work on the "Socially Adept Psychopath." The legal argument seems to be at the foundation of our society. This amounts to little more than con-artistry: the one who is the slickest at using the structure for convincing a group of people of something, is the one who is believed. Because this "legal argument" system has been slowly installed as part of our culture, when it invades our personal lives, we normally do not recognize it immediately.

    Human beings have been accustomed to assume that other human beings are - at the very least - trying to "do right" and "be good" and fair and honest. And so, very often, we do not take the time to use due diligence in order to determine if a person who has entered our life is, in fact, a "good person." And when a conflict ensues, we automatically fall into the cultural assumption that in any conflict, one side is partly right one way, and the other is partly right the other, and that we can form opinions about which side is mostly right or wrong. Because of our exposure to the "legal argument" norms, when any dispute arises, we automatically think that the truth will lie somewhere between two extremes. In this case, application of a little mathematical logic to the problem of the legal argument might be helpful.

    Let us assume that in a dispute, one side is innocent, honest, and tells the truth. It is obvious that lying does an innocent person no good; what lie can he tell? If he is innocent, the only lie he can tell is to falsely confess "I did it." But lying is nothing but good for the liar. He can declare that "I didn't do it," and accuse another of doing it, all the while the innocent person he has accused is saying "I didn't do it," and is actually telling the truth.

    The truth - when twisted by good liars, can always make an innocent person look bad - especially if the innocent person is honest and admits his mistakes.

    The basic assumption that the truth lies between the testimony of the two sides always shifts the advantage to the lying side and away from the side telling the truth. Under most circumstances, this shift put together with the fact that the truth is going to also be twisted in such a way as to bring detriment to the innocent person, results in the advantage always resting in the hands of liars - psychopaths. Even the simple act of giving testimony under oath is useless. If a person is a liar, swearing an oath means nothing to that person. However, swearing an oath acts strongly on a serious, truthful witness. Again, the advantage is placed on the side of the liar. [Robert Canup]

    Lore posted Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:16:00 GMT(11/11/2011)

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    Joined 11/10/2010
    Psychopathy is a mental disorder characterized primarily by a lack of empathy and remorse, shallow emotions, egocentricity, and deceptiveness. Psychopaths are highly prone to antisocial behavior and abusive treatment of others, and are very disproportionately responsible for violent crime.

    ...

    Any experiences in dealing with these problem people would be helpful to all.

    So basically, you're asking if any of us have experience in working around children?

    M moshe posted Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:19:00 GMT(11/11/2011)

    Post 6666 of 9085
    Joined 1/18/2005
    They lie and manipulate to gain converts or to look good to the outside world. They have no remorse for pain caused to outsiders. ***It's almost like if you drop normal a person into the Witnesses, they qualify as a psychopath. You take them out, they don't

    That'a very scary analogy, but I have to consider it a logical viewpoint. I have often wondered, if long term faders get a secret thrill out of being fake JWs, even elders. The normal reaction is to get away from a pathological group of liars and associate with normal people. Lying about who you are inside is too hard for a normal person to keep up for very long.

    lohengren posted Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:25:00 GMT(11/11/2011)

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    Joined 5/30/2011

    The CEO of my company is a regular Patrick Bateman (american psycho). I know one day he will bring an axe into the office.

    He even looks the part.

    M moshe posted Fri, 11 Nov 2011 16:41:00 GMT(11/11/2011)

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    Joined 1/18/2005

    Lore, I once old my then 15 year old daughter- "there is a hell'uva lot more parent abuse than child abuse"- I won't go into details, but out of control teenagers can literally ruin a parent's life

    We had a neighbor years ago who had an out of control step son- about 14 years old. The family was absolutely terrified of him. One day he threatened them with a harm (an axe, I think) - they locked him out- he got tired of trying to get back inside ( it was night), so he set his stepdad's car on fire. Now the police and fire dept got involved. The stepdad admitted he locked the minor child out of the house- so he was immediately guilty of child abuse- and he was the only one who went to jail. Needless to say he got a divorce.

    F mrsjones5 posted Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:08:00 GMT(11/11/2011)

    Post 16671 of 19551
    Joined 10/13/2004

    My MIL, oh the stories I could tell about that evil woman.

    compound complex posted Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:23:00 GMT(11/11/2011)

    Post 9089 of 10509
    Joined 8/4/2006

    PLEASE READ: GB's attitude toward suffering of foreign brothers ...

    Ray Franz received letters from Branch Committee members that displayed thoughtfulness and breadth of viewpoint that were in sharp contrast to the rigidity and narrowness of several members of the Governing Body:

    What was the effect of all this? Remember that any decision made would affect the life of thousands of persons. The existing policy had already resulted in imprisonments representing tens of thousands of years. Again, I believe the way the matter was handled is remarkably revealing. It illustrates the way long-standing, traditional policies can exercise overruling power on the thinking of men who have declared their determination to let God's Word be their sole and supreme authority. [ISOCF, Ray Franz, p. 266.]

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/165264/1/GBs-Attitude-Toward-Suffering-of-Foreign-Brothers

    ziddina posted Fri, 11 Nov 2011 17:55:00 GMT(11/11/2011)

    Post 6328 of 10450
    Joined 4/8/2009

    Ho, ho, I could tell some stories!!! Most would be work-related, though...

    In one case, two of my co-workers happened to have had the same supervisor at a previous place of employment. They began comparing notes, having been EXTREMELY puzzled by some of the snafu's and blow-ups under this particular woman's supervision, and found that she had been lying to BOTH of them - alternately - and every time she was caught in a lie, she placed the blame on the OTHER co-worker - whomever wasn't present at the time...

    Needless to say, this woman's psychopathic behavior caused a GREAT deal of problems, not only for the two co-workers, but also for the COMPANY...!

    Having observed far too many of these worms over the years, I've come to realize that the typical psychopath or sociopath is - INEVITABLY - the worst BROWN-NOSER - TURD-POLISHER - in the company.

    And far, far too many bosses are sucked in by these devious, dishonest, manipulative deviants...

    They seem to be driven by at least two motives; an extreme fear of being "out of control" - which leads to an obsession with controlling EVERYONE ELSE [and frequently there's a substance-abuse problem involved, too...], and a small-minded, intrusive lack of boundaries - respect for others' personal boundaries, and ability to maintain some semblance of social boundaries of their own...

    Never having been an elder [being female, I was disqualified at birth...], I haven't had the opportunity to observe, first-hand, the behaviors of elders, but I'd bet my bottom dollar that the same behavior patterns can be seen in many elders...

    Zid

    M james_woods posted Fri, 11 Nov 2011 18:02:00 GMT(11/11/2011)

    Post 6322 of 12292
    Joined 10/26/2005

    I think that starting threads warning people here to be nice to the Watchtower Society when we post is psychopathic:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/experiences/218133/1/Please-done28099t-be-guilty-of-committing-the-sins-you-have-indicted-the-WatchTower-of

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