Tonight, I talk to the elders about becoming an unbaptised publisher.

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    Buck posted Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:12:00 GMT(6/8/2005)

    Post 18 of 42
    Joined 12/7/2004

    Tonight I meet with the Overseer? and another elder. Plus the older gentlemen who I study with. They will ask me some questions out of the Organized to do Jehovahs will book. Then I will be a publisher.

    I feel like Iam being forced into doing this because the person I love is already a baptised witness. Iam a little fuzzy on some aspects. I feel really unsure about what Iam about to go through.

    Any thoughts?

    One question:

    Why do witnesses never talk about Russell or Rutherford?

    wanderlustguy posted Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:16:00 GMT(6/8/2005)

    Post 455 of 2149
    Joined 1/19/2005

    Because then they have to admit that they have been wrong...and doing so about the foundation of the Org opens a huge can of worms that no Witness can ever shut.

    They are afraid of those questions, and will label you apostate for asking too many of them.

    F BrendaCloutier posted Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:18:00 GMT(6/8/2005)

    Post 2535 of 4395
    Joined 7/10/2004

    Buck, just avoid baptism at all costs....

    M SixofNine posted Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:19:00 GMT(6/8/2005)

    Post 8909 of 14410
    Joined 12/17/2000

    :Why do witnesses never talk about Russell or Rutherford?

    Because if they talked about Russell or Rutherford, then occasionally people would feel the need to actually read what Russell and Rutherford wrote... and then witnesses would realize that their religion is based on the rantings of a couple of insane ego-maniacs/clowns. We can't have that, now can we?

    F Crumpet posted Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:20:00 GMT(6/8/2005)

    Post 742 of 6569
    Joined 10/21/2004

    Do you actually want to go out door knocking? If not then ask them awkward questions and you won't have to, they''ll just postpone it.

    I do not envy you!

    M stevenyc posted Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:26:00 GMT(6/8/2005)

    Post 435 of 2222
    Joined 1/27/2005

    This is a tough one Buck. My guess is that if you start asking them tricky questions like Russel, Rutherford, UN association, New Light"™, 607...... then they will see you as a probable apostate type associate and MAY start to discourage your loved one from being with you.

    The JDub organization is an asocial type cult. If you plan to be with your loved one for a long time, then severing ties with them, COULD mean severing tie with her(I'm guessing your a guy from you name).

    I think I would tell them this is a step into a life changing moment, to serve Jehovah, and ask for a little more time of prayer with Jehovah, to make sure He feels your ready. This should give you a little more time. Then, talk to your girl and find out from her if she will always be a JDub.

    If she will never leave, then its up to you to decide what this life will mean for you.

    Joining this cult will mean your devotion to them is above all other things, including your loved ones.

    steve

    ps welcome to the board.

    M IP_SEC posted Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:27:00 GMT(6/8/2005)

    Post 1748 of 7575
    Joined 1/21/2005

    Buck,

    Im not sure if you appreciate how huge this step is. The reason they meet with you is to make sure you understand that, even though you are not baptised you will still be viewed as a witness.

    This means that you are now placing yourself under their authority. This gives them jurisdiction over your personal life. If you are not ready, then dont recognize their authority. When you become an unbaptized publisher, door knocking becomes a must do.

    Are you ready for this?

    Buck posted Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:36:00 GMT(6/8/2005)

    Post 19 of 42
    Joined 12/7/2004

    iam not sure what to do.

    but if I dont start taking "postive growth" I will lose her.

    M tetrapod.sapien posted Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:41:00 GMT(6/8/2005)

    Post 641 of 4984
    Joined 3/16/2005

    hey buck,

    this board is full of people whose lives have be ruined by this cult. is love really worth it? what if you want to change your mind once you are in? that could ruin your love life too.

    i think you are in a good position to help your girlfriend out of the cult, since she does not consider you biased.

    but it's true what brenda says, avoid baptism at all costs. and don't ever let them fool you into thinking that they have "the truth". it has been proven beyond a doubt that they do not have it. and IP_SEC has a good point too. remember that even this step will put you under their control to a large degree.

    good luck man,

    TS

    M Nosferatu posted Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:41:00 GMT(6/8/2005)

    Post 4349 of 6824
    Joined 12/16/2002
    I feel like Iam being forced into doing this because the person I love is already a baptised witness. Iam a little fuzzy on some aspects.

    Well, let me clear some of this up for you. Do you know what's required of an unbaptized publisher?

    - You need to go door to door at least once a month
    - You need to turn in a monthly report on how many hours you spent knocking on doors and how many magazines you've placed.
    - If you do not turn in your monthly report, the PO phones you and asks you for your stats.
    - If you're sporatic in your door to door work, you become an irregular publisher
    - If you quit turning in a report, you become an inactive publisher. A shepharding call will follow.
    - If you turn in your publisher badge, you are announced from the stage as "no longer an unbaptized publisher". You are then marked as "Spiritually Weak" or even "Bad Association".

    You are committing yourself to a life of selling magazines full of lies for the rest of your life as a JW. It fucking blows. If you're not a good salesman, you'll hate it.

    Also, you're putting yourself through a lot of crap just for "love". However, the person you love doesn't have the same love for you. The WTS is her first love. Jehovah is her second. The Elders are her third. The congregation is her fourth. Her JW relatives are her fifth. Any children she has will be her sixth. You will be dead last.

    You're better off finding a woman who isn't going to make you crawl through the JW mud to show that you love her. She SHOULD love you for the person you are, not the person you're going to be. She's expecting you to become a good JW. Her expectations are high, and you're most likely going to let her down (proof: you're on this website). Once you leave the JWs, you eliminate the common ground for your relationship: the JW religion. She's going to expect you to build your relationship on the religion instead of love.

    If you're willing to sacrifice all your morals, beliefs, and even love for some woman, you've not only got a lot to learn, but you're going to experience a ton of pain while learning.

    F doogie posted Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:43:00 GMT(6/8/2005)

    Post 623 of 919
    Joined 6/23/2004
    but if I dont start taking "postive growth" I will lose her.

    i dont mean this to sound heartless, but...

    let her go dude. who knows, maybe not having you in her life will help her start thinking and eventually you can have her without having to share her with the JWs. otherwise, it's gonna be an unpleasant 3-some for you.

    why am i reminded of The Country of the Blind?...

    http://www.online-literature.com/wellshg/3/

    M tetrapod.sapien posted Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:44:00 GMT(6/8/2005)

    Post 642 of 4984
    Joined 3/16/2005
    but if I dont start taking "postive growth" I will lose her.

    buck,

    i hate to sound calloused, but is this something that someone who loves you would make you do? why can't she have her religion, and you have your freedom? it kind of sounds like emotional blackmail to me, at this point. sorry.

    and welcome to the board.

    M GetBusyLiving posted Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:45:00 GMT(6/8/2005)

    Post 1512 of 3013
    Joined 12/10/2004

    You'll be expected to put in at least ten hours of door knocking every month. As soon as you take a step like this towards joining a cult (becoming a publisher, commenting at meetings, handling microphones, ect.) you will be pressured by the group to dedicate your life by means of water immersion. At that point you can kiss your rational mind goodbye. It's a spiritual death sentence. You will officially be a part of the BOrg collective and a slave to the Watchtower.

    My advice is to avoid becoming a publisher at all cost's. Try to get your chick out of the dubs. If she won't leave.. run like hell and never look back.

    GBL

    JV posted Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:49:00 GMT(6/8/2005)

    Post 63 of 233
    Joined 2/8/2004

    Man you must really love her, buck pm me we'll talk i'm sort of in the same position

    M TadSexington posted Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:53:00 GMT(6/8/2005)

    Post 14 of 30
    Joined 5/23/2005

    Buck, just a little advice...

    RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    There's no reason to waste every Saturday morning from now on, for a girl....... Come on..... Sleeping in, cartoons...... Weekend morning sex!!!

    DON'T DO IT!!!!

    - CAPT. Tad K. Sexington, U.S.S. Layabout

    95stormfront posted Wed, 08 Jun 2005 17:04:00 GMT(6/8/2005)

    Post 660 of 1345
    Joined 2/17/2003

    iam not sure what to do.

    but if I dont start taking "postive growth" I will lose her.

    Then lose her. Take it from the wealth of posters on this board, what you're about to give up so that you can possess this prize is not worth it. Ask youself, what type of "growth" is she going through to be with you. You stand to lose your autonomy, self-respect, and put yourself under the authority of a bunch of old goons in Brooklyn so far removed from reality it "ain't even funny. What exactly is she giving up in return to deserve the love you're extending to her.

    This situation reminds me of the chorus of an old Electric Light Orchestra song

    As long as I say what you want to hear,

    do what you want to do,

    be who you want me to be

    You think that's love,

    Well, that ain't love to me.

    You'd better ask yourself, is this the kind of love you want from someone you have the expectation of living the rest of your life with.

    M garybuss posted Wed, 08 Jun 2005 17:09:00 GMT(6/8/2005)

    Post 2862 of 7501
    Joined 10/8/2001

    In high control groups like the Jehovah's Witnesses the attention is only paid to the current leader as long as he is the current leader. Past group leader's teachings are either changed or repainted and their books are soon out of print.

    The focus of the current group is the current group. Teachings, meetings, and service are little more than distractions and busywork. The real agenda is the expansion and profitability of the central group by donations, event sponsoring, and real estate development and speculation. Nothing else matters.

    F katiekitten posted Wed, 08 Jun 2005 17:15:00 GMT(6/8/2005)

    Post 64 of 3182
    Joined 6/5/2005

    Please Buck really think hard. Were not discouraging you from getting involved just for the sake of it.

    You may well lose her if you become a Dub anyway, because the pressure and commitment it will demand of you both tends to have a wrecking effect on marriage. My mum and dad couldnt hack the strain anymore and seperated, then divorced, but sadly they are so well matched for each other. It was the whole 'head of the house' 'woman in her place' stuff, plus all the meetings and field service left no family time.

    I couldnt have sex with my husband (we married as young dubs) because it just felt WRONG somehow. Meetings put me off it.field service put me off it - can you think of day in the week without a meeting or field service? Nope, neither could I. I went to a sex psychologist to find out what was wrong, but felt guilty about mentioning anything about the dubs (look bad on Jehovah, right?) so I didnt mention any of that stuff - so it never got resolved. We got divorced in the end.

    PLEASE, hun, dont do this. I thought I would die when I got divorced it hurt so much, but I lived to have great sex and meet a great partner with no religious hangups.

    DevonMcBride posted Wed, 08 Jun 2005 17:17:00 GMT(6/8/2005)

    Post 1417 of 1813
    Joined 1/25/2002
    but if I dont start taking "postive growth" I will lose her.

    Don't you think that she is being selfish? You are making a life-altering decision to appease her.

    F jgnat posted Wed, 08 Jun 2005 17:31:00 GMT(6/8/2005)

    Post 5226 of 24559
    Joined 7/4/2002

    You are ready to commit to a performance-oriented relationship, where you can lose her at any time if you don't meet her standards? You must love her a lot. I am not so sure she reciprocates. Nosferatu makes an excellent point.

    Also, you're putting yourself through a lot of crap just for "love". However, the person you love doesn't have the same love for you. The WTS is her first love. Jehovah is her second. The Elders are her third. The congregation is her fourth. Her JW relatives are her fifth. Any children she has will be her sixth. You will be dead last.

    I made sure before I married, that WHO I AM was lovable and acceptable to my partner. The confidence and security of being with someone who loves me for me is wonderful. Don't give that freedom up lightly, brother.

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