Examples of JW evasiveness/dishonesty

One stumper for me is, how could this man known as "Jesus" be said to exist before his birth?  He said he was around before Abraham.  How could he really say that?  If God had a son named Michael, the Archangel, how was this guy the same person as the Jesus the human?  This Archangel supposedly willed himself out of existence, while at the same time God through the holy spirit conceived a baby on earth.  What was the point of that?  What exactly tied those two entities together?  The baby was simply a baby with "super DNA" or something, making him perfect.  Was this fetus or baby the same person as Michael?  How?  Why didn't God just create a new perfect human without having his son wiped out?

Why are the Beroeans always credited with making sure of things by thoroughly examining the scriptures but when a JW wants to make sure of things he/she risks being disfellowshipped?

Ian

oh I forgot a good one....

how can you be lead by God's spirit, yet NOT inspired [spirit'ed]

Excellent thread subject Bonezz.... and great comments from all.



Sadly, I was so brain washed/dead that I thought of only a very few of the points raised here, and then would dismiss my "doubts", thinking I was becoming dangerously close to being "disloyal". And yet, I never thought of myself as letting others do my thinking, etc. That thought would be the furthest from my mind, ditto if someone like you Bonezz had asked me some of the questions....my take would have been that YOU lacked a "spritual perspective", when the reality was that I was being swept along by the biggest con job to come way since birth....



--Dan

Dansk...good to hear from you.  Yeah you can check things as long as you use their materials and once you get dunked you're not allowed to have questions anymore.  You have joined Zombie-Ville.  Check your brain at the door.  My Super-Dub wife was always on my case to get baptized.  I would tell her that I would get in trouble if I asked questions after being dunked...to which she would reply..."Well have all your questions answered before you get baptized."  Like even if they could give you good answers to your satisfaction, you're never supposed to have any questions again?  Get real!

Zen...It's like TinkerBells fairy dust.  It only works when you see it working!?  Actually TinkerBell has a better track record than the F&DS.

-BONEZZ

M.J. ... God has obviously never heard of the K.I.S.S rule.

DannyBoy...I knew you when you were Brother Superdub...yeah maybe that was you that told me I just wasn't ready for the spiritual gifts "J" had for me.  It's funny how the WTBS muddys the water when they can't give a logical answer...But they ridicule other religions who give the ol' "God works in mysterious ways" answer.  They also like to turn it around and tell you that your lack of spirituality is causing you to come up with these questions.   Of course maybe that rodent on your head was affecting your advice to me too. 

-BONEZZ

Boneez:



I like your expression "non-answer" because I use it myself. They are the masters of the non-answer and to put a further twist on the non-answer they will say that they don't have to answer someone who doesn't have the "right attitude" (whatever that means).

Good question related to this.  I think the position is that everyone pays for their own personal sins through their own death, but Christ died for Adam's original sin, which wins back the right to gain regain perfection and live in a paradise earth.  So according to this doctrine, Christ did not die for our personal sins, which is a contradiction to a number of scriptures.  It also raises another question: what about the people that survive the Big A and never die?  How are their personal sins paid for?

LongHairGirl...maybe we should equate them with politicians, both masters at giving non-answers.  And thanks, I forgot how they throw around the 'Attitude" word.  "You don't have the right attitude."   "You don't have a spiritual attitude."  " Your attitude is lacking maturity."  These are all used if you wear the wrong color of shirt, buy a two door car, grow a beard, wear too short of dress, ask the wrong questions and a plethora of others.

-BONEZZ

Someone said that they got a reply that we as people are too puny-brained to understand all these details about God and his master plan, or something to that effect. At the same time, however, the WTS presumes to know a heck of a lot about God and his master plan that leaves you scratching your head how they could be so sure about it, having such puny brains and all. Like he chooses to know only certain details about the future. How do they presume to know that? Because that's the explanation that fits into their admittedly puny-brained reasoning.

In one of the Watchtower study articles about 8 or 9 years ago, one of the paragraphs was talking about the resurrection hope and how wonderful it would be to welcome back the children that were sacrificed to the false god Molech. I asked my dad (an elder) how could it be that we would be welcoming back those children when their parents were obviously wicked? We have always been taught that the fate of our children is in our hands. If we are wicked, then our innocent children, who are not at the age of understanding, will be destroyed because of our actions. He never did give me an answer. All he said was, "Maybe there will be a correction later.."   Okay........

Does anyone remember this article?

M.J...it's easy for 'em when they make it up as they go along.

btafly...I can almost remember that.  Sounds like a typical response.

-BONEZZ

Great thread Bonezz,

Even though Paul clearly states "the penalty for sin is death" Well then if the big "A" occurs today and all the Jws  make it through without dying, when would they have paid for their sin with death?

How does a "annionted one" develope a spirit that carries on after death, if current doctrine does not allow this, and if the annionted one falls away what happens to the spirit that was there to carry on?

This is a really good one:  What was the name of the true church after the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

LOL, Ive heard funny responses like " oh there was a family in Europe somewhere who kept Jehovahs Org. alive secretly."  I said ok what was the name because remember Jehovah always uses a organization.

Interesting thread.

I didn't get it all read, so I hope I don't repeat.

What intrigues me is the 'twisting to fit' approach to scriptures. Three examples that I have in mind that I always questioned in the back of my mind. I never asked anyone to answer these, that I recall. I was not looking to discredit the organization at the time, but they were interesting to debate in my mind.

1- The account of the witch of Endor speaking with the spirit of Samuel. Without reading this with Watchtower filters it would seem to indicate that it was indeed Samuel's spirit that was being consulted. But the WTS has twitsted the meaning to mean that it was really demons that filled that role.

2- The parable of Jesus about the rich man and Lazarus. I always wondered why Jesus would use such a parable that he had to know would be used as support of hellfire by future religions. It takes the WTS entire articles in detail to explain away what Jesus said there.

3- Speaking of Parables; why is the 'Faithful and Discreet Slave' parable interpreted as prophecy, when other similar Parables are said to be just that?

So many inconsistencies - so little time.

Jeff