Prevalence of JW Suicides - Real or Imagined?

In one or two recent threads I've seen reference to the possibility of a rising number of JW suicides being another of the organization's very dark realities about which it is vigilant in keeping concealed from its pub populace. Is there anyone reasonably informed regarding this? Is there reason to suppose the incidence ratio among JWs is any higher than among any peoples/religion?

I'd very much appreciate your responses, including any "experiences" you're comfortable disclosing. This subject has me contemplating something I've often suspected---what the level of depression might be among "the happiest people on earth" and the reason.

Thanks for sharing.

-AMNESIAN

I thought it was bullshit when I read about it first. I stayed in the Borg for another year.

I know of 3 instances.

1. Middle aged pioneer. Drug OD.
2. (VERY!) pretty young sister who supposedly hung herself in a lunatic asylum. Apparently Elders screwed her somehow (maybe J.C. but not mentioned) cos she wouldn't date the "upper class" males in the cong.
3. A young male publisher who jumped infront of a train.

I say no only cos I haven't the data available.

From The Apostle AK

I've often wondered that too. I don't know of any specific examples, but I have a gut feeling that it's high.

If there is a significant number of people that think this also, then maybe reality isn't far off?

Slipnslidemaster: "But at my back I always hear Time's winged chariot hurrying near."
- Andrew Marvell

I've had a wee bit of training in Suicide and suicide prevention with the Menninger Clinic in Topeka, Kansas; a few other places as well. I have no hard data to offer, though I will begin to look at some statistics. Anecdotally I'll say yes, the suicide rate for JW's is slightly elevated from that of the genral population. The are two possible contributing factors for this.
Anecdotally again, it seems the society attracts those who have emotional problems anyhow, that or the lifestyle creates or complicates these emotional problems. Just as importantly, the absence of belief in Hell, and therefore, no real consequences to suicide factor in on the decesion making process. This I know from my studies, one factor that restrains some from suicide is the idea of HELL. So, when faced with belief that suicide will mean one is not resurrected and only face oblivion, suicide is a more attractive option.

Let me get back with you on the stats, people actually track this stuff.

Yeru

YERUSALYIM
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]

imagined.

It seems to me there is a great deal of depression among JW's. Is it higher than the general population? We could probably
only find out with the society's cooperation. That won't happen. If the rate of depression/suicide is only equal to that of the general population, that is suficient to show that there's no mystical force at work in the congregations. Jim Penton reports that the society held a meeting in which JW doctors were consulted. According to him, the brothers in charge were told that the average JW is under a lot of pressure and therefore more suceptible to depression than the average person. If I recall correctly, Penton believed this was behind the barrage of articles in the 80's that emphasized how caring God is.

Godrules,

WHAT is imagined?

YERUSALYIM
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]

The idea that JW's suffer depression because of the standards that Jehovah puts forth in the Bible.

Let's talk about depression:

Of course everyone gets depressed. I get depressed everytime I pay my bills, how the damn electric company takes advantage of people with their high rates, how the phone company screws you if you don't have a special long distance plan.

I get depressed everytime I have to fill up the gas tank of my car. I get depressed when after a long night of sleep, my body still aches and I feel more tired than when I went to bed. I'm depressed that I have to pay over 800 dollars of taxes every friecking month plus 250 dollars more for taxes from my house.

I get depressed when I see so much suffering around the world.

Heeeeeellllllllooooooooooo? THAT'S WHY WE NEED THE NEW SYSTEM OF THINGS!

Yeru offered:

Thanks, I really appreciate the effort.

slipn wrote:

Yes, I'm suspecting this, too.

AK wrote:

Any reliable info as to the reason ever surface?

Run this one by me again? I'm not quite getting the bit about dating upper class males in congregation.

Wow. Any reliable info as to the reason ever surface?

GR wrote:

Hope you're right.

-AMNESIAN

Godrules,

What we are talking about here is CLINICAL depression, which is sharply distinct from what YOU are talking about. And no, it's not what God puts forth in the bible that depresses JW's it's the LOAD of SHIT they add along with it. From my exerience the JW's attrack by far more neurotics and psychotics than any other group I've dealt with.

We await the second coming of Messiah when all things will be made whole, I don't look forward to the JW idea of a "New System" which is unbiblical, and depressing (think about the boyz in Brooklyn being in charge of EVERYTHING, it makes you shutter.

Yeru

YERUSALYIM
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]

They don't get depression from nothing that's added on. What do the Witnesses add? Go to the meetings, oh please, that's just basic stuff. Go out in service, hello? Didn't JC command that?

What have the Society added? Hmmm, lets see? Some B.S. about 1914 (1799, 1874, 1914, 1918, 1925, 1975)
Jesus said go door to door? WHERE, and where does the bible tell us to "report" hours? Where in the bible is one judged by the number of "meetings" they attend? Where in the bible is facial hair forbidden, or private sexual encounters between married couples spot lighted. Where in the bible does it say not to recieve blood transfusions? Where in the bible does it say the Elders are to form secret "judicial commitees"? Where in the bible is higher education or a decent job frowned on? Where in the bible does doctrine keep switching? (i.e. generations definition changed) Where in the bible are the meetings so important that family time suffers? I can go ON and ON and ON

YERUSALYIM
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]

Godrules,

How 'bout, shun your best friend, your child, your parent, your spouse if such person decides to leave the organization?

Let me know if you want more examples.

-T.

Yeru: Oh listen to yourself, you sound like a kid compalining about everything.

First, the date things, how is that a load?
Door to door: It's a means of preaching the good news. What's wrong with that?
report hours: What's up with that one? So you have to put in a paper that you spent 2 hours preaching, wow that's a real load!
facial hair: O.k. I don't get that one. Is this the beard thing?
sexual encounters: between a married couple? There's no load there.
blood transfusions: this one is just common sence. JW's choose to respect Jehovah's view of life.
Judicial committes: 1 Cor. chapter 5.

I can go on and on and still make sence.

tergiversator: Hey, you knew the consequences to you actions. If you really cared about your best friend, child, parent or spouse you wouldn't have been so prideful and would of been willing to accept God's way of doing things. The problem is not the JW family, but the one that is willing to give everything up, even their families to try to prove you're right and Jehovah's org is wrong, which of course is unprovable.

GR;

Just a thought about paying bills and depression, many have very low paying jobs in the WT. Higher education and high paying full time employment has always been discouraged. That is extra pressure put on people wouldn't you agree? I realize they expect a big payoff for their sacrifice but at what cost? Does god actually want his people to suffer every day life? I think not.

HCM

I can only speak from my own experience. When I was DFed I lost it. I lost everything that I thought was mine. No - let me rephrase that - everything I thought was mine abandoned me. My parents, childhood friends, my church. Yes, I had clinical depression. I was on antidepressants as a teenager because I didn't think I could ever do anything that would make up for the sin in my life. Which is certainly true. I couldn't go out in service enough, I couldn't study my bible enough, I couldn't have pure enough thoughts and actions. I felt like I was constantly (and barely) trying to keep my head above water on a sinking ship.

It wasn't until several years out of the WTS that I finally got the necessary help (therapy) that helped me realize I HONESTLY couldn't live up to the manmade standards set out by the WTS. I read the Bible. Studied the Bible. And the Bible only. THAT is when I realized that God was giving me grace - no matter how bad I was, I could accept his gift of grace and renew my life and move on as a True Christian. I life a better, more spiritual life now than I did as a witness. I'm so thankful!

My gut instinct is the same as a few others mentioned. I would NOT be surprised if the suicide rate is higher with WTS members v. other religions. It would be interesting to have some hard-core facts though.

Billygoat

Godrules, your cavalier dismissal of other people's
suffering is disgusting.

Depression caused by false prophecy?

Here: "If you are a young person, you also need to
face the fact that you will never grow old
in this present system of things....Therefore,
as a young person, you will never fufill any
career that this system offers." MAY 22 1969 Awake

I believed those lies.
I suffered because of those lies (no college, read the article)
Depressing? You bet!

metatron

HMMM God Rules, maybe this is why so many JW's suffer such deep clinical depression:
(courtesy of http://www.jwfiles.com/jw-cant.htm)
BECOME A JW AND YOU CAN'T
Celebrate Mother's Day
Celebrate Father's Day
Celebrate Grandparent's Day
Celebrate Birthdays
Celebrate Thanksgiving
Celebrate New Year's Day
Celebrate Christmas
Celebrate Halloween
Celebrate Easter
Celebrate Flag Day
Celebrate Independence Day (Fourth of July)
Celebrate Hanukkah
Celebrate St. Patrick's Day
Celebrate Valentine's Day
Celebrate "Any" Holiday
Sing any Holiday Songs
Eat turkey on Thanksgiving
Join the Boy Scouts
Join the Girl Scouts
Become a Cheerleader
Attend class reunions (No "Worldly" association)
Go to the school prom
Play School Sports (No competition allowed)
Play Professional Sports
Join any organization that has ties to Christianity
Shop at the Salvation Army
Volunteer for the Salvation Army
Shop at Church run thrift stores
Shop at Church Garage Sales
Shop at any Store that has Christian ties
Contribute to the Red Cross
Join the YMCA
Join the Military
Attend Alcoholics Anonymous
Salute the Flag
Sing the National Anthem
Go to War
Own a Gun
Learn karate
Vote (Conscience matter now to please Governments, you will be ostracized if you do)
Run for any Public Office
Campaign for a Candidate
Can join union, but not participate in its affairs
Buy lottery tickets
Gamble
Date without supervision - young or old
Watch R rated movies
Cannot work on another Church if it's a regular customer
Smoke cigarettes, pipes or a cigars
Sell cigarettes, pipes or a cigars
Accept Blood
Donate Blood
Wear blue jeans or casual clothes to the Kingdom Hall
Wear pants to the Kingdom Hall if you are a female
Wear skirts or dresses that are above the knee at any time
Wear any type of long hair if you are a man
Wear a beard in some Kingdom Halls and areas (judged hard)
Pierce ears if male, other body parts if female
Have any Tattoos
Say curse words
Toast drinks (pagan origin)
Throw rice at a wedding (pagan origin)
Say "Bless You" when someone sneezes
Say "Good Luck!", "Wish me Luck", "I was Lucky" or "You were Lucky"
Tell ghost stories
Practice Yoga
Own a Smurf
Watch TV shows, "Sabrina, the Teenage Witch", "Touched by an Angel", or "Bewitched"
Say "It was fate" or mention anything to do with "fate"
Engage in any risky acts such as: Sky Diving, Bungie Jumping & Hang Gliding
Have Jesus as your Mediator and Savior
Wear or own a Cross
Attend another Church (Spiritual Fornication)
Associate on a regular basis with nonbelievers
Associate with ex-members
Associate with disfellowshipped ones
Talk with disfellowshipped ones
Marry a nonbeliever (If you do, you are judged hard by the congregation)
Marry in another Church or attend a wedding in another Church
Have a funeral in another Church or attend a funeral in another Church
Pray, including holding your head down, when a nonbeliever prays
Study other religious articles not from the Society
Read negative information about the Society
Question the Watchtower Society on anything
Exercise your on conscience if it goes against the religion
Question Anything!
Have Christian freedom
If you are a woman you can't pray in the presence of men, without a covering on your head

Become a Jehovah's Witness and you shouldn't....
.... if you do you will be looked down upon

Discuss politics
Get on the Internet
Attend social functions organized by your place of work
Associate with worldly neighbors
Attend College (The Society has lightened up on this somewhat, but if you attend you are not putting Kingdom interests first, and will be judged.)

Become a Jehovah's Witness and you have to....

Attend several regular meetings each week
Go out in field service regularly to recruit new members
Report your field service activity to the congregation each month
Attend regular scheduled conventions
Give talks at the congregation (whether young or old, male or female)
Read and fully understand their teachings
Prepare for each meeting
Study with family
Fully accept the Watchtower's authority and rules (no exceptions)
Dress according to their rules at the Kingdom Halls, Service and conventions (no exceptions)

Women and small girls must wear dresses
Men must wear dress pants with dress shirts and ties

Associate only with fellow members
Report on fellow members including your family, if they are caught doing something against Society's rules
You have to sing at the meetings (even if you have a bad voice) - or you are looked down upon

GR; You must be VERY well off financially for a poor humble Witless, if you pay $800 a month in taxes. The borg must really like to see you come in with your money. How much formal education do you have? You hit the lottery? By your other comments "THEY" really have you, don't THEY. You can get help and get over it.