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1992 murder conviction is upheld - William Carlson

    M Dogpatch posted Tue, 07 Dec 2004 01:43:00 GMT(12/7/2004)

    Post 1122 of 3985
    Joined 12/26/2000

    Remember this guy?

    1992 murder conviction is upheld

    By Barbara Bell Special to the Tribune Published December 4, 2004
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/chi-0412040178dec04,1,3774551.story?coll=chi-newslocalchicago-hed
    William Carlson's request to have his murder conviction thrown out was denied Friday by a Lake County judge, but Carlson said he plans to appeal.

    Carlson, 30, who represented himself at a hearing before Associate Circuit Judge John Phillips, said he deserved a new trial because of problems with the indictment charging him with first-degree murder in the 1990 shooting deaths of his parents.

    "It's specifically an attack on the validity of the indictment," Carlson said.

    Carlson pleaded guilty in 1992 to killing his father in their Wildwood house. He is serving a 90-year sentence in Stateville Correctional Center in Joliet.

    In a plea deal, Carlson avoided a life sentence when prosecutors dropped murder charges in connection with his mother's slaying. But Carlson's sentence for his father's death was extended because the crime was considered heinous and brutal, authorities said.

    Carlson argued that because the "heinous and brutal" accusation was not mentioned in the grand jury indictment, it was flawed.

    Assistant State's Atty. Jeff Pavletic said Carlson pleaded guilty to killing his father, so his argument did not apply. Carlson waived his rights to a jury trial when he entered the plea, Pavletic said.

    Phillips agreed.

    "I am going to deny you the relief you request," he told Carlson.

    Pavletic said prosecutors were never sure what motivated Carlson, then 16, to kill his parents with a handgun he rented for $100 from classmates at Warren Township High School.

    "That was the $64,000 question at the time," Pavletic said. Carlson feared getting in trouble with his father because he had sold some of his father's gold collection, and his parents were Jehovah's Witnesses, the prosecutor said.

    A defense psychiatrist said Carlson had been sexually and mentally abused by his parents. But Pavletic doubted that Carlson was mentally ill because he plotted to kill his parents and returned the gun before fleeing to Canada in his parents' car.

    "All of those things supported that this wasn't a person who didn't understand the acts he had committed," Pavletic said.

    Copyright © 2004, Chicago Tribune

    M Tigerman posted Tue, 07 Dec 2004 03:06:00 GMT(12/7/2004)

    Post 62 of 1011
    Joined 10/5/2004

    Yes, I not only remember him, I visited him when he was in jail, shortly after he was arrested. I knew the attorney who represented him at the time, gave him info I had about the Witnesses. When I went to see him ( William ) he wouldn't even speak to me . . .of course he had no idea who I was , just a guy who brought him a book to read . . . I wouldn't speak to a stranger either. My heart went out to the kid . . .sixteen years old.

    F LDH posted Tue, 07 Dec 2004 04:32:00 GMT(12/7/2004)

    Post 5200 of 7072
    Joined 12/18/2000

    SIXTEEN......let's see, that's three more lives ruined. Jehovah loves human sacrifices......

    F willsadvocate posted Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:15:00 GMT(2/10/2005)

    Post 1 of 8
    Joined 2/10/2005

    No wonder Will wouldnt talk to you when you visited him when he first went to jail. His sick well known Jehovah's Witness parents abused him SEVERELY and didnt deserve to live to abuse him or anyone else ANYMORE! You have no right to judge him until you have been in his shoes! If Jehovah loves him and watches him so much then where was Jehovah when he was being brutally sexually abused by his father and mentally fucked over by his mother???!!!! I would LOVE to see you people go through that and not fantasize about killing your own parents.

    Gill posted Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:20:00 GMT(2/10/2005)

    Post 603 of 6034
    Joined 11/4/2004

    So, who advised this child, as he was then, to plead guilty?

    F willsadvocate posted Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:52:00 GMT(2/10/2005)

    Post 2 of 8
    Joined 2/10/2005

    he didnt know what else to do. they knew he was abused but i dont think they knew to what extent. he had no money and was only 16. Nobody advised him on what else to do and he was so ashamed of the abuse that he didnt speak up.

    F Joyzabel posted Thu, 10 Feb 2005 22:00:00 GMT(2/10/2005)

    Post 3841 of 3564
    Joined 10/28/2001

    had Will gotten help to deprogram from the JWs since being imprissoned? That would be very sad if he still thinks it is the truth?.

    No one can judge another. No one fully understands what an individual has gone through.

    F willsadvocate posted Thu, 10 Feb 2005 22:07:00 GMT(2/10/2005)

    Post 3 of 8
    Joined 2/10/2005

    yeah, he doesnt believe anymore. but i think he figured it out all on his own, without help, a very long time ago.

    F Joyzabel posted Thu, 10 Feb 2005 22:18:00 GMT(2/10/2005)

    Post 3842 of 3564
    Joined 10/28/2001

    btw, welcome to the board, wilsadvocate. Take a look around and you'll see this place is filled with xjws, many angry over the abuse they have suffered being a JW and in a cult.

    Also, direct Will to the Silentlambs.com site. He might find others like him.

    F kls posted Thu, 10 Feb 2005 22:25:00 GMT(2/10/2005)

    Post 3337 of 7557
    Joined 1/5/2003

    Willsadvocate as much as i hate to say it now but being beaten by both my parents killing them was on my mine very often, thinking that would make all the hurt go away, but thank goodness it never happened.

    F willsadvocate posted Thu, 10 Feb 2005 22:32:00 GMT(2/10/2005)

    Post 4 of 8
    Joined 2/10/2005

    thanks!

    no, i'm not suggesting killing his parents was an appropriate action and that i encourage it but i understand the amount of rage one feels in this dynamic. i know will personally and see him at least once a week. i know him very well, he is a good person and struggling to heal from all the damage done. i wish he would have spoken up or had someone to help him, someone he could trust when he was growing up.

    F kls posted Thu, 10 Feb 2005 22:42:00 GMT(2/10/2005)

    Post 3338 of 7557
    Joined 1/5/2003

    WA said: i wish he would have spoken up or had someone to help him, someone he could trust when he was growing up.










    I am not laying my problems on you just saying i know how people can turn their backs and not get involved.



    M avishai posted Thu, 10 Feb 2005 22:47:00 GMT(2/10/2005)

    Post 3251 of 7557
    Joined 7/25/2002
    You have no right to judge him until you have been in his shoes

    I don't think anyone was judging him, I think they were trying to help. And many of us HAVE been in his shoes. Welcome.

    F willsadvocate posted Fri, 11 Feb 2005 00:51:00 GMT(2/11/2005)

    Post 5 of 8
    Joined 2/10/2005

    many of us, including myself, have been in his shoes, of course. but initially when i posted my first response it was to the other two people who were saying they went to visit him and also about jehovah loving human sacrifices. i know i was defensive but mostly because i too, have been involved in brainwashing organized religion and had abuse in the mix with that. i'm not saying that i or even Will should be pityed but i think those jehovah's witness' from his fathers church that once knew him should take it easy, and realize that this stuff happens alot within the churches of america. It seems like more and more the people involved in the church are the ones pointing fingers and judging when its them that are practicing cruelty. i know will and feel a strong desire to speak up for him, and protect him.

    thanks everyone for being so friendly...i didnt expect.

    F bebu posted Fri, 11 Feb 2005 01:54:00 GMT(2/11/2005)

    Post 2081 of 4115
    Joined 3/11/2003

    LDH was being sarcastic, WA... She meant that the JW policies were responsible for enabling yet another situation for child abuse to continue, which resulted in his acting out.

    She did not mean that she approved of the parents' behavior or even Will's. Just that the WTS shares a deep part of the blame.

    Welcome, btw!

    bebu

    M Dogpatch posted Fri, 11 Feb 2005 02:01:00 GMT(2/11/2005)

    Post 1174 of 3985
    Joined 12/26/2000

    Willsadvocate,

    If you are in contact with him and he can receive hardcover books, let me know and I'll send him Steven Hassan's "Releasing the Bonds" (of cult mind control), a great deprogrammer guide.

    Randy

    F willsadvocate posted Fri, 11 Feb 2005 02:16:00 GMT(2/11/2005)

    Post 6 of 8
    Joined 2/10/2005

    whoops! i didnt realize! duh. lol!

    yes i am in contact with him...he's at stateville in Joliet, IL.

    I'll ask him if he's interested.. whats ur email address?

    F willsadvocate posted Fri, 11 Feb 2005 02:23:00 GMT(2/11/2005)

    Post 7 of 8
    Joined 2/10/2005

    to dogpatch:

    arg! i just realized he cant recieve hard cover...but maybe the book is availiable in soft cover or?

    thanks for offering

    Gill posted Fri, 11 Feb 2005 10:24:00 GMT(2/11/2005)

    Post 606 of 6034
    Joined 11/4/2004

    Do you do retrial in the US when new evidence is revealed?

    There must be some organization willing to help this young man with his appeal, surely!

    How about your media? Surely someone in the media would be willing to pick up and run with this story.

    F willsadvocate posted Fri, 11 Feb 2005 19:35:00 GMT(2/11/2005)

    Post 8 of 8
    Joined 2/10/2005

    Yes there is a possibility for a retrial when new evidence is revealed but Will admitted to killing his father when he was tried initially so i dont think there's any way around that. I wish there was. There is a possiblity for clemency, and the media could play a part there.

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