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Old Light - New Light: Changes in WT Doctrine
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Old Light - New Light: Changes in WT Doctrine
posted Fri, 27 Apr 2001 02:20:00 GMT
(4/27/2001)
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Post 22 of 872 Since 12/29/2000 |
Let's see StillIn explain WHY these flip-flops occur in WT doctrine, if it is "TheTruth"
OLD LIGHT - NEW LIGHTORGAN TRANSPLANTS 1967-1980: prohibited as "cannibalism" WT 11/15/67 p.702 Since 1980 - permitted WT 3/15/80 p.31 VACCINATIONS 1931-1952 Prohibited as being a "direct violation of the everlasting covenant." Golden Age 2/4/31 p.293 Since 1952 - permitted WT 12/15/52 p.764and AWAKE! 8/22/65 p.20 ORGANIZATION - ITS IMPORTANCE 1893 - No organization today WT 1893 p.266 1894 - Not part of the Lord's plan. WT 12/1/1894 p. 384 1895 - Beware of organization WT 9-15-1895 p.216 1955 - Respect the organization Qualified to be Ministers, 1955, p.380 1957 - Obedience to organization. WT 5/1/57 p.274 1972 - Submit to headship (Governing Body) WT 12-15-72 p.755 1983 - Essential part of the Lord's plan WT 2/15/83 p.12PYRAMIDOLOGY Prior to 1928 - "God's Stone Witness and Prophet" Used to predict dates Thy Kingdom Come, 1891, p.313, 16, 17, 342, 362 Since 1928 - Satan's Bible; not God's Stone Witness. WT 11/15/28 p.344 1928 - Satan's Bible WT 11-15-28 p.841 1930 - Just a pile of stones Light II, 1930, p.286 ROMANS 13:1 - WHO ARE THE "SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES?" 1886 - Earthly governments Divine Plan of the Ages, 1886, p.266 1889 - Earthly governments Time Is At Hand, 1889, p.81 1932-1963: God and Christ Vindication, Vol. 3, 1932, p.13 and The Truth Shall Make You Free, 1943, p.312 1952 - God and Christ Let God Be True, 1952, p.248 1959 - God and Christ Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, p.91 1963 - Earthly political governments WT 1/1/63 p.31 1975 - Earthly political governments 1975 Yearbook, p.238 1980 - Earthly political governments WT 5/15/80 p.4 THE REVELATION NAMES "APOLLYON" AND "ABADDON" Refers to Satan - The Finished Mystery, p.159 Refers to Jesus Christ - Then Is Finished the Mystery of God, p.232WHO IS "THE TRUE LORD?" Jesus Christ WT 9-15-83 p.19 Jehovah God WT 7-1-89 p.30 THE "ALPHA AND OMEGA"OF REVELATION 22:12 Refers to Jehovah God - AWAKE! 8/22/78 p.28 Refers to Jesus Christ - WT 10/1/78 p.15 ( A major change in just 2 months!) WHO IS MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL? Not the Son of God - WT November, 1879, p.4 Jesus not an angel - WT March, 1883, p.456 The Pope of Rome - The Finished Mystery, 1926 Edition, p.188 Jesus Christ, the Son of God - Reasoning From the Scriptures, 1985, p.218 SAYING "HELLO" TO DISFELLOWSHIPPED MEMBERS? 1970 NO WT 6/1/70 p.352 1972 NO Organization for Kingdom Preaching..., 1972, p.172 1974 YES WT 8/1/74 pp.464,465 1981 NO WT 9/15/81 p.25 WILL THE MEN OF SODOM AND GOMORRA BE RESURRECTED? 1879 YES WT July, 1879 p.8 1952 NO WT 6/1/52 p.338 1965 YES WT 8/1/65 p.479 1988 NO WT 8/1/88 p.31 1988 YES "You Can Live Forever..." p.179 (Old Edition) 1988 NO "You Can Live Forever..." p.179 (New Edition) 1988 YES Insight On The Scriptures, Vol.2, p.985 1988 NO Revelation - Its Grand Climax p.273 WHEN WAS THE 'SECOND PRESENCE' OF JESUS CHRIST? 1874 - Harp of God, 1921, p.234 1874 - WT 1/1/24 p.5 1874 - Creation, 1927, p.289 1874 - Prophecy, 1929, p.65 1914 - AWAKE! 4/22/57 pp. 11,12 1914 - From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained, 1958, p.170 1914 - God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years..., 1973, pp. 209,210 1914 - You Can Live Forever..., 1982, p.147 The Society said in the Watchtower issue of WT 1/15/93 p.5 "The Watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honesthearted students of Bible prophecy that Jesus' presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914." "CONSISTENTLY"? After examining the above quotes, is this true? WHO IS THE "FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE?" a. All anointed Watchtower members - JWS in the Divine Purpose, p.68 b. Brother Russell filled the office of special "servant" - WT 3/1/23 p.6 c. From 1896 to 1916 - Watchtower founder, Charles Taze Russell The Finished Mystery, 1917, p.5 d. Charles Taze Russell - The finished Mystery, 1917, p.53 e. Spiritual Israelites: the 'anointed' Society members - From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained, 1958, p.193 f. The Watchtower admits earlier view that Russell was considered "the Servant" Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, 1959, p.69 g. A "class" of individuals - 1975 Yearbook, p.88 h. "Russell disavowed being the Servant." - God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years..., 1973, pp.345,346 i. The Society asserts that it never published a biography of Pastor Russell - Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, 1959, p.63 j. But here are the Introductory pages of the Society's Biography of Pastor Russell - The Divine Plan of the Ages, 1927 Ed., p.1 (So, why the cover-up?) k. Because in this Biography Russell admitted in private that HE was "the Servant" - The Divine Plan of the Ages, 1927 Ed., p.7 SOME NOTABLE QUOTES... "A new view of truth never can contradict a former truth. "New light" never extinguishes older "light" but adds to it." Charles Russell in Zion's Watchtower, Feb. 1881, p.3 "It is a serious matter to represent God and Christ in one way, then find that our understanding of the major teachings and fundamental doctrines of the Scriptures was in error, and then after that, to go back to the very doctrines that, by years of study, we had thoroughly determined to be in error. Christians cannot be vacillating - 'wishy-washy' - about such fundamental teachings. What confidence can one put in the sincerity or judgment of such persons?" WT 5/15/76 p.298 "However, it may have seemed to some as though that path has not always gone straight forward. At times explanations given by Jehovah's visible organization have shown adjustments, seemingly to previous points of view. But this has not actually been the case. This might be compared to what is known in navigational circles as "tacking." By maneuvering the sails, the sailors can cause a ship to go from right to left, back and forth,..." WT 12/1/81 p.27 But then they say: "...to run "not uncertainly" means that to every observer it should be very evident where the runner is heading. The Anchor Bible renders it "not on a zigzag course." Wt 8/1/92 p.17 Yet this right to left "zigzag course" is the very direction that the Society has given itself permission to take! We have the right to again ask: "What confidence can one put in the sincerity or judgment of such persons?" |
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Re: Old Light - New Light: Changes in WT Doctrine
posted Fri, 27 Apr 2001 02:30:00 GMT
(4/27/2001)
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![]() Post 268 of 4540 Since 1/2/2001 |
new light2SIT stated the following:And after ALL this digging and going through the vast volumes of anti-JW literature, I began to see light shining from the Bible. I watched as most of my material fell to pieces, exposed as lies or exaggeration or just twisting the truth.. or clearly unscriptural garbage ########what you have done is posted NO ANIT-JW MATERIAL - but ONLY WT MATERIAL. as we all know the information was taught as being provided by god to his FDS to be served as food at the proper time=
jw were told that it was based on the bibleyet we all know that much of what they were told as being bible based was never based on the bibleIf you are reading this post SIT would you consider that what was written by the wt in the post by newlight could be classified as:"clearly unscriptural garbage"you seee the WT says that all it's teaching are based on the bible yet the post show that much of what they teach is no more than the GUESSES OF THE MEN IN WRITINGHOW SADJAMES |
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Re: Old Light - New Light: Changes in WT Doctrine
posted Fri, 27 Apr 2001 02:42:00 GMT
(4/27/2001)
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Post 10 of 11 Since 4/24/2001 |
Hi, I am not as researched as newlight, but, what about whether they are or are not 'prophets', there was confusion on this as well, I think, u know, 'we are not prophets', then 'we are prophets, something like that.
I think they would argue that their 'discrepencies' were due to the light being given to them gradually, and perhaps they guessed too much. Who knows what 'cock and bull' they would come up with. C YA Chris |
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Re: Old Light - New Light: Changes in WT Doctrine
posted Fri, 27 Apr 2001 03:17:00 GMT
(4/27/2001)
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Post 74 of 1054 Since 3/27/2001 |
THE "ALPHA AND OMEGA"OF REVELATION 22:12 Refers to Jehovah God - AWAKE! 8/22/78 p.28 Refers to Jesus Christ - WT 10/1/78 p.15 ( A major change in just 2 months!) |
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Re: Old Light - New Light: Changes in WT Doctrine
posted Thu, 16 Sep 2010 16:58:00 GMT
(9/16/2010)
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Post 659 of 997 Since 5/25/2005 |
this needs a bump methinks. |
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Re: Old Light - New Light: Changes in WT Doctrine
posted Thu, 16 Sep 2010 17:30:00 GMT
(9/16/2010)
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Post 528 of 539 Since 10/17/2009 |
One more: SEPARATING OF THE SHEEP AND THE GOATS (Matt 25:31-46) Prior to 1923: The separating of the sheep and the goats is a future event taking place after the tribulation.
1. The current (since 1995) view is actually a reversion to OLD LIGHT. 2. The previous (1923-1995) view is now considered OLD LIGHT and DOCTRINAL ERROR, yet was ATTRIBUTED TO GOD:
We may not tell untruths in his name, for that puts God in the light of a liar. "Let God be found true, though every man be found a liar." (Rom. 3:4, NW) In Jeremiah's day the false prophets prophesied lies in Jehovah's name and lied against his purpose, foretelling in his name what he had not foretold. Therefore Jehovah was against them. He executed judgment against them at Jerusalem's destruction in 607 B.C. (Jer. 23:25; 27:15) Religious liars like them today cannot escape a like judgment but will meet a like end at Armageddon. --WT, 2/1/1956, p.88.
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Re: Old Light - New Light: Changes in WT Doctrine
posted Thu, 16 Sep 2010 21:23:00 GMT
(9/16/2010)
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Post 1497 of 5569 Since 6/13/2010 |
Bumped for all lurkers to see
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Terry
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Re: Old Light - New Light: Changes in WT Doctrine
posted Thu, 16 Sep 2010 21:26:00 GMT
(9/16/2010)
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![]() TexasPost 9587 of 12748 Since 6/19/2004 |
Vaudeville.
It couldn't keep up with the times.
Same old same old.
That's what the Watchtower faces. They have to dick with the Truth to make it seem hot out of the factory with that new bread smell.
But, its the same old stink.
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Re: Old Light - New Light: Changes in WT Doctrine
posted Thu, 16 Sep 2010 21:30:00 GMT
(9/16/2010)
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Post 1498 of 5569 Since 6/13/2010 |
They call covering the stink " ADJUSTMENTS " |
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Re: Old Light - New Light: Changes in WT Doctrine
posted Thu, 16 Sep 2010 21:43:00 GMT
(9/16/2010)
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Post 103 of 3372 Since 8/27/2010 |
Great post, Newlight2! Seems like instead of the light getting brighter and brighter, it's a strobe light flashing on and off! |
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Re: Old Light - New Light: Changes in WT Doctrine
posted Fri, 17 Sep 2010 16:28:00 GMT
(9/17/2010)
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![]() TennesseePost 582 of 870 Since 4/22/2005 |
This "Old Light - New Light: Changes in WT Doctrine" thread deserves to be brought back because it is so important for new ones on this board to see for themselves, point by point, the changes in WT doctrine over the years. Recently, I finished an article about the WT Society's interpretational changes of the separation of the sheep and the goats parable and it is found on Freeminds.org. It might appear from a quick perusal of late WT literature that "peacedog" has the changes in interpretation correct, but looking at the old material, and for the sake of accuracy, the reality is that the changes were not quite as simple as "peacedog" presented. Yes, generally he's correct, but the changes were far more important than just when the Society said the separating event takes place. Prior to 1923: The separating of the sheep and the goats is a future event taking place after the tribulation. The 1923 interpretation offered by the WT regarding the parable of the sheep and goats was one of the most important theological change in WT's history because it alone was the impetus for the "world-wide preaching work of JWs. Prior to 1923: Russell taught that the "separating" would occur during the Millenium and yes, peacedog is correct, this is after the tribulation. Note this: Russell taught that Jesus did the separating of the Gentiles during his 1,000 year rule. 1923-1995: Rutherford taught the "separating" began in 1918, no matter if later Watchtower articles generalized and used the year 1914 as the starting date. Also, it would only be Christendom that would be separated. And, most importantly, Christians separated themselves by their reaction to the message they heard only from the Bible Students/JWs, who early on were all annointed so constituted "Christ's brothers." This work was the "judgment" that would continue until just prior to the start of the Millennial age. Jesus, through the angels, was pushing the worker messengers, who mainly were not annointed but supportive of "Christ's brothers" until just before the start of the great tribulation when goat-like Christians were determined by Jesus unworthy of receiving the trial for life that went on during the Millennium and which sheep-like Christians received. October 1995: Jesus executes judgment when the entire wicked system has ended, right after the tribulation starts. And Jesus’ judgment includes people of all nations, (or as Russell called them the "Gentiles,"), just like the parable states, not merely Christendom. And, Jesus does the separating. This is what the Watchtower of Oct. 15, 1995 stated: "Jesus is the one who is appointed to render judgment. It is not for us to determine who are sheep and who are goats." What does the latest change mean: As I pointed out in my essay, Awake! editor, Harry Peloyan, told me, “Now Jehovah’s Witnesses believe just like Christendomhas for 2,000 years!” That in a nutshell is the most important part of the change of interpretation in 1995! The following material was taken from my Freeminds article: 1. The earliest belief of Russell and associates—1879 onward Zion’s Watch Tower, September 1881, p. 269, par. 5, 6: A thousand years of such ruling and teaching! ... This thousand years is the time during which all the nations are gathered before the judgment seat of Christ. It is their judgment day—one thousand years.[6] During all that time, God’s truth, as a two-edged sword, will be quietly, … doing a separating work, dividing the sheep from the goats. Matt. XXV, 31-46. This article originally appeared in the September 1879 Zion’s Watch Tower, p. 34, and was expanded in Sept.1881. Zion’s Watch Tower, March 15, 1905, p. 3528, par. 6: The Lord refers to this other flock of sheep, and explicitly tells us about the gathering of those sheep to his favor under him as the great Shepherd. He definitely fixes the time and shows that the parable of the sheep and goats belongs not to the present age but to the Millennial age… The Watch Tower, February 15, 1914, p. 5406, par. 7: One parable at least tells about the future work of the kingdom, after the Church is completed and sits with Christ in his throne. This is the parable of the Sheep and the Goats… [par. 10] This dividing of the world, the Gentiles, will progress for a thousand years, and eventually will make a most complete separation… 2. 1923—Change (18) Our Lord’s throne, or judgment-seat, mentioned in the parable does not seem to be that of the Millennial throne which will deal with the living and the dead during his reign, but seem clearly to be the throne of court established to judge the things existing at the time of or during his second presence and before the beginning of restoration. (21) …that this judgment of the unrighteous things spoken of by St. Jude takes place prior to the beginning of the Millennial age judgment, which shall be in righteousness. Acts 17:31 Repetition for emphasis: Rutherford applied the judgment of everlasting destruction for goat-like people before the Millennium began and during Christ’s invisible presence, which was thought to have begun in 1874. According to that same Watch Tower,the messageand how people react to that message about the day of God’s vengeance preached by God’s earthly representatives separates goat-like people from sheep-like people only in Christendom and not dividing or separating the gentile world as Russell taught. But it is the duty of the church, as representing the Lord on earth, to proclaim the day of his vengeance against Satan’s unrighteous system and to call upon the people to separate themselves from the unclean thing and come apart and recognize and acknowledge allegiance to the King of kings and Lord of lords (p. 314, par. 61). His [Jesus] words concerning the separating of one from another in this parable do not seem to relate to a general separation of the nations, but rather to the separation of the two general classes composing the nations of Christendom, one symbolized by goats and the other by sheep.(p. 310, par. 30). 3. The latest belief—1995 “The rendering of judgment on the sheep and goats is future. It will take place after ‘the tribulation’ mentioned at Matthew 24:29, 30 breaks out and the Son of man ‘arrives in his glory.’ Then, with the entire wicked system at its end, Jesus will hold court and render and execute judgment.”Watchtower, October 15, 1995, p. 23, par. 26. In other words, Jesus executes judgment when the entire wicked system has ended, right after the tribulation starts. And Jesus’ judgment includes people of all nations, just like the parable states, not merely the Gentiles or only Christendom. Nowhere in the 1995 articles does it enlighten readers that for some forty-four years previous to 1923 the Watch Tower Society taught that the parable of the sheep and the goats applied during the Millennium, but simply explains on page 25, par. 9: The parable does not apply during the Millennium, for the anointed will not then be humans suffering hunger, thirst sickness, or imprisonment. For a fact, that October 15, 1995 Watchtower, on p. 19, par. 24, and p. 22, par. 22 misleads the Witnesses by stating that it was long understood that the parable found application starting in 1914 when that was the second application the Society endorsed, the first being Russell’s teaching that application was during the Millennium. This should have been clarified. In addition, in the October 15, 1923 Watchtower, the year 1914 is never mentioned; rather, the Watch Tower explains that Christ came in 1918 for the purpose of judging, first the spirit-begotten saints, later, Christendom. To recap, the new development in the Society’s understanding is that the other sheep are those who are preaching the good news with the anointed and do good towards them. Goat-like ones are those whose past actions were not supportive of the anointed and rejected the Kingdom message. And, most importantly, as explained in the Oct. 15, 1995 Watchtower, p. 26, par. 15, Of course, in the final analysis, Jesus is the one who is appointed to render judgment. It is not for us to determine who are sheep and who are goats. |
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Re: Old Light - New Light: Changes in WT Doctrine
posted Fri, 17 Sep 2010 17:38:00 GMT
(9/17/2010)
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Post 2725 of 4599 Since 4/16/2009 |
I really like the "YES" then "NO" then "YES" then "NO" lists. Shows truly what a farce it all is!
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Re: Old Light - New Light: Changes in WT Doctrine
posted Fri, 17 Sep 2010 17:44:00 GMT
(9/17/2010)
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Post 533 of 539 Since 10/17/2009 |
Barbara, Thanks for the info. It was not my intent to write an essay or to delineate all the nuances of the Society's historical positions on Matt 25:31-46; just to present an overview of another doctrinal flip-flop. I don't think I mispoke when I summarized the WT views thusly: Prior to 1923: The separating of the sheep and the goats is a future event taking place after the tribulation.
Imo, the bigger issue here is not (another) WT doctrinal flip-flop, but that the 1923 doctrinal position was attributed directly to God:
The above is a very plain statement by the Society attributing what is now said to be DOCTRINAL ERROR to God. It is my opinion that shifting doctrines (including even back-and-forth doctrinal flip-flops) are by and large readily accepted by individual JWs as they deem these to be examples of "the light getting brighter". However, attributing false doctrine - doctrinal error - to God is an entirely different issue which I consider to be far more damning to the Watchtower Society and much more difficult for individual JWs to reconcile. Watchtower doctrine leaves no room for a God who provides doctrinal error to the JWs or anyone else for that matter: God is Truth. This means that the Society's claim to have received doctrinal enlightenment from God regarding Matthew 25:31-46 in 1923 is patently FALSE. This calls all other similar claims into question, for if the Society is demonstrably wrong(lied) about receiving new light from God in this case, why should any other such claim be believed? Secondly, what of the ramifications of portraying God as a liar? Based on the Society's current doctrinal position regarding Matt 25:31-46 and their comments regarding their previously held view, God LIED to the Watchtower Society in 1923. By putting God "in the light of a liar", the Watchtower Society has sealed their own fate, according to their own teaching:
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Re: Old Light - New Light: Changes in WT Doctrine
posted Fri, 17 Sep 2010 22:51:00 GMT
(9/17/2010)
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![]() TennesseePost 583 of 870 Since 4/22/2005 |
No, peacedog, you did not misspeak. I felt the need to post because there is so much more to WT's past and present "separating" work interpretations than just flip flops and I was adding to your overview. Absolutely WT tells untruths about God and even makes liars out of the messengers. As I mentioned in my essay found at Freeminds, it was a terrible blow to me to find out I had been lying to people when I taught them WT's 1923 interpretation of the parable. I felt as though I had misrepresented the God that I thought I had served for over forty years. In reality, every time WT makes changes to their doctrines and "sweet talks" the flock into believing it is in their best interests to accept more "new light," it makes God out to be a liar who apparently is having fun playing a sick sort of game with his believers’ hearts and minds. And to outsiders, believers appear to be fools to accept the expositions of “...the church that claims to represent the Lord on earth" but can never get their claims right! We who thought we knew it all and looked down at others for not understanding the Bible like we did were living a fantasy, a lie. And JW's leaders are two-faced liars. Out of one side of their mouth, they smoothly and convincingly lie to their members about God's purposes. Out of the other side, they say every religion except them lies about God. And nobody did that better than Rutherford did in his Oct. 15, 1923 article, THE PARABLE OF THE SHEEP AND THE GOATS.
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Re: Old Light - New Light: Changes in WT Doctrine
posted Fri, 17 Sep 2010 23:05:00 GMT
(9/17/2010)
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Post 296 of 333 Since 10/2/2009 |
Excellent thread, am marking for later. Lilly |
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Re: Old Light - New Light: Changes in WT Doctrine
posted Sat, 18 Sep 2010 00:07:00 GMT
(9/18/2010)
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Post 3685 of 4362 Since 12/29/2007 |
Great list! Can anyone provide full quotes for these two please? THE "ALPHA AND OMEGA"OF REVELATION 22:12 Many thanks in advance! Blessings, Stephen |
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Re: Old Light - New Light: Changes in WT Doctrine
posted Sat, 18 Sep 2010 00:21:00 GMT
(9/18/2010)
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Post 537 of 539 Since 10/17/2009 |
Hi Barbara, As I mentioned in my essay found at Freeminds, it was a terrible blow to me to find out I had been lying to people when I taught them WT's 1923 interpretation of the parable. I felt as though I had misrepresented the God that I thought I had served for over forty years. In my opinion, this speaks to your character. I am surprised and disappointed that JWs in general are not more concerned about (continuing to) misrepresent God by bringing doctrines to the door, only to have those doctrines discarded down the road. Even current JWs must realize that there is no certainty that what they believe (and carry to the doors) today will be "truth" tomorrow. And yet they continue to preach these uncertain doctrines and to present them as "God's truth". I wonder how many times the average JW has "put God in the light of a liar" by preaching something that was subsequently discarded as error? How many "untruths" has the average JW carried to the door and presented as God's will? I enjoyed your essay, and, again, I thank you for the info.
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Black Sheep
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Re: Old Light - New Light: Changes in WT Doctrine
posted Wed, 22 Sep 2010 06:12:00 GMT
(9/22/2010)
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![]() Post 5702 of 9221 Since 8/8/2003 |
.. though Pastor Russell has passed beyond the veil, he is managing every feature of the harvest work.
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